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Old 11-14-2014, 09:54 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Jda55 View Post
There will only be a total of two people living on boat with occasional guest. We are empty nesters that still work. Plan on taking boat out on weekends with occasional evening cruises.
What I'm comparing costs to is against renting. I know that at the end of 5 years of renting I will have zero $. With a boat, even with depreciation, it should be worth something after 5 years. (Depending upon health and experience, we could just to keep boat, build house, and move back to land.)
Maintainance on boat comparing to owning a home. Still have cost of home Maintainance, in this case just putting $ into boat. Recognize boat will be more Maintainance $, but worth it to protect "investment".
Obviously there are many variables, but if I buy well, with a good brand boat, that could sell, take good care of it, seems like I would come out better than renting. Plus have more fun!
Is my thinking sound? Or, is this just plain idiotic?
Thanks for replies so far.
I think you've already convinced yourself and you're just asking for validation. You may be right, you may be wrong. The only logical reason to live on a boat or own a boat is because you love boating and being on the water.
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:09 AM   #22
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I think it sounds like a great plan. Too many variables to know if you'll come out ahead, financially. But what a difference in lifestyle you will have over those 5 years. Go for it.
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Old 11-14-2014, 10:23 AM   #23
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Think about your ability to absorb unexpected expenses, particularly if you plan on using the boat for cruising.

When you rent a house/apartment the landlord takes the risk that the furnace dies, the roof leaks, etc. When you own the boat, you're responsible for fixing everything. And fixing boats can get expensive quickly.

Last year the furnace on my boat needed servicing twice (about $400 for parts and labor each time), the windlass died and needed to be replaced (about $4000 when all was said and done), all the batteries needed to be replaced ($2000), the bottom needed painting and dripless shaft seal needed replacing and some other misc. work ($4500)...not to mention other bits of engine and systems maintenance... Plus insurance, taxes, slip rental...

Now, if you don't cruise, you don't need the windlass, good batteries, fresh anti fouling paint, or engines that run well.

I could rent a comfortable, newish 1 bedroom apartment in a good neighborhood in Seattle for less than I pay for maintenance, taxes, and insurance for the boat (not to mention the opportunity cost of having money tied up in a depreciating asset). BUT I love living aboard...the flexibility to move the boat around the northwest, the ability to cruise the Inside Passage in the summer, being able to hop in the dinghy or kayak and explore whenever the mood strikes...
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Old 11-14-2014, 11:02 AM   #24
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Living on a boat is a lifestyle, certainly not an investment. If your standards are low it can be done cheaply, delta style, I know people living on old wooden ChrisCrafts or sail boats that really have no value and certainly aren't seaworthy , in fact may not even run that are living the life style, on the water, in an older marina, on a boat worth maybe $5000, living life and enjoying it. They are in fact swimming fishing and kicking back living on the water for next to nothing. Many of these folks are living on disability or social security and living the lifestyle that certainly is better than an apartment. Far better than being homeless living in a tent.
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Old 11-14-2014, 11:15 AM   #25
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It can be done. We sold our sailboat for a few thousand more than we paid. BUT, we put thousands into it, along with a lot of sweat equity (all work ourselves, including replacing all the standing rigging). We DID NOT get back all the money we put into it, despite selling for more than we paid. But the amount that went into it was well worth it for us in terms of the ejoyment we got back out of it. If we had to sell our NT today, we would probably break even or maybe even sell it for more than we paid. BUT, we would not get out the money we have put into it for upgrades. We expect that. Also consider that it is relatively easy to sell an inexpensive boat yourself. We did with the sailboat. But once you get into larger boats, you will likely want to enlist a broker. If we had to sell the NT, I'm certain we would list it, which would cut into our share of the purchase price. In the end, for us, it isn't a question of what we will get out of a boat when we sell, it is what will we get out of it in terms of enjoyment while we own it. That is well worth the cost to us. We use the boat every week, even in the winter, so for us it is a lifestyle choice.
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Old 11-14-2014, 12:11 PM   #26
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It can be done. We sold our sailboat for a few thousand more than we paid. BUT, we put thousands into it, along with a lot of sweat equity (all work ourselves, including replacing all the standing rigging). We DID NOT get back all the money we put into it, despite selling for more than we paid. But the amount that went into it was well worth it for us in terms of the ejoyment we got back out of it. .
I agree completely...Buy a quality boat, do quality modifications, keep it detailed and maintained and the loss, if any, will be minimal.
I bought an '86 Bristol 35.5 in '94 for $65K.....Put $17K into it over 4 years and enjoyed it immensely. When it was time to sell (corporate move) I got $85K for it and got my company to cover the brokerage costs. My only regret was having to sell due to the move. Not everyone's experience will be the same of course..

Buy a desirable, quality boat of limited production
Care for it lovingly
Sell it fairly when it's time to go

You'll have no regrets ($$) in the end as the experiences during ownership will (hopefull) be priceless...

I'm about to do the same again with my pending Cape Dory 28 purchase..
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Old 11-14-2014, 12:17 PM   #27
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All good points, but money, inflation, values, etc., are just really abstract thoughts of man, and are 100% subjective. The ONLY thing thats factual is time. That nobody knows how much they have left until the second it's up, and all the money, investments and other man made concepts can't help you get time back, nor anymore of it.
Go look in the mirror and see it's trail. Time wasted worrying and waiting for more of the other is literally time lost. As a broker for 40 years now, the saddest thing I regularly see is guys dieing before they ever did anything. Spent their whole lives talking about buying a sportscar, buying a boat (even a small one) riding a motorcycle across the country, traveling, ="when I retire, kids get out of college, win the lotto, wife gets her knees fixed, my health gets better" and did NONE. Of course the widows usually do-with a younger more fun guy who will gladly help her spend 'Bob's money'. Of course I realize it's lots easier to dream than do (buying toys and making decisions is a lot of work) but it seems like a waste to me. Better to be an active hobo than a sedentary rich guy "counting one's beans".

Brilliant Post!


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Old 11-14-2014, 03:21 PM   #28
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As a broker for 40 years now, the saddest thing I regularly see is guys dieing before they ever did anything. Spent their whole lives talking about buying a sportscar, buying a boat (even a small one) riding a motorcycle across the country, traveling, ="when I retire, kids get out of college, win the lotto, wife gets her knees fixed, my health gets better" and did NONE.
Absolutely. This is a terrible thing to do to one's self in my opinion. My mother grew up during the Depression, and she never lost her fear that it might come back again. So even though she wanted to buy a house in Hawaii, travel in later years, and do all sorts of thing, she never did for fear that she'd be caught short of money when the Depression came back.

While I don't advocate spending money foolishly and to the point where one ends up living in a box under the freeway, I and my wife believe that putting things off until "we can afford it" or "we have the time" can be a path to disappointment.

It's why we got into flying a floatplane up and down the Inside Passage countless times when we it would have been easy to talk ourselves out of spending the money. It's why we got into going to the UK every other year to run a narrowboat on the canals when it would have been easy to talk ourselves out spending the money. It's why we bought our diesel cruiser 16 years ago, when it would have been easy to talk ourselves out of spending the money. And our lives have been vastly enriched by the experiences we've had doing these things.

You only go around once on this planet in the life we have right now. Our thought is would we rather lie on our deathbeds wishing we'd run narrowboats and flown the Inside Passage and BC mountains and had years of great cruising on our boat, or do we want to lie there thinking about all the great times we've had doing these things?

In my opinion PilothouseKing has made the best point yet in this thread. Regardless of the specific pros and cons of doing what the OP is contemplating, this should be the most important consideration as long as one goes about making the decision in a smart way.
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:39 PM   #29
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Where your plan falls apart I'm afraid is that you mentioned 10-20% down. Financing boats like you're talking about is difficult and financing them with small down payments nearly impossible.
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Old 11-14-2014, 05:32 PM   #30
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Thumbs up Thanks - Needed that today...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilothouse king View Post
All good points, but money, inflation, values, etc., are just really abstract thoughts of man, and are 100% subjective. The ONLY thing thats factual is time. That nobody knows how much they have left until the second it's up, and all the money, investments and other man made concepts can't help you get time back, nor anymore of it.
Go look in the mirror and see it's trail. Time wasted worrying and waiting for more of the other is literally time lost. As a broker for 40 years now, the saddest thing I regularly see is guys dieing before they ever did anything. Spent their whole lives talking about buying a sportscar, buying a boat (even a small one) riding a motorcycle across the country, traveling, ="when I retire, kids get out of college, win the lotto, wife gets her knees fixed, my health gets better" and did NONE. Of course the widows usually do-with a younger more fun guy who will gladly help her spend 'Bob's money'. Of course I realize it's lots easier to dream than do (buying toys and making decisions is a lot of work) but it seems like a waste to me. Better to be an active hobo than a sedentary rich guy "counting one's beans".
Sorry if some consider this thread drift... but this resonated with me today. Did sea trial and survey yesterday. Have a chunk of savings ready to transfer hands. Loan approved. Working through final details in the purchase of our first large boat. Feeling the "what have I done" syndrome. Thanks for the reminder of why we decided to do this in the first place!
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Old 11-14-2014, 08:04 PM   #31
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I'm thinking of keeping the boat at either the Sinclair or city of Port Orchard Marina. Both are nice and close enough for commute to work.
Budget for boat would be around $2,200 per month, all inclusive. Payment, moorage, ins, maintain, fuel, utilities, laundry, storage. I think I ought to be able to do this for that amount. Of course, could always be more, maybe less.
Agree?
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Old 11-14-2014, 09:24 PM   #32
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I'm thinking of keeping the boat at either the Sinclair or city of Port Orchard Marina. Both are nice and close enough for commute to work.
Budget for boat would be around $2,200 per month, all inclusive. Payment, moorage, ins, maintain, fuel, utilities, laundry, storage. I think I ought to be able to do this for that amount. Of course, could always be more, maybe less.
Agree?
Do you have a means of financing other than a boat loan?
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Old 11-15-2014, 06:47 AM   #33
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The past is not a prolog to the future , so while Inflation is common in most folks memory , all the QE the USA and world is producing has not raised inflation up to 2%.

DEFLATION is a horror for most in debt govs , and seems to be on the horizon.

Beware,, money can have higher value , so payments become more difficult.

As a new toy you may be tempted to >make it your own<.

Before the Sawsall tune up ,try living with what exists , it worked for decades , so give yourself a chance to understand why it exists.

The other big danger is Toy Time,,, ,purchasing thousands of dollars of new stuff , because it feels like you have advanced just purchasing the stuff.

Hold off , again for a year if you can, to see what works (for you) , what doesnt and then only purchase an item AFTER the first purchase is installed and operating.
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Old 11-15-2014, 08:13 AM   #34
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Jda55

I think with the right boat that budget would be fine

I have not financed anything in so long I would have no idea what is reasonable to finance

keep us informed on your plans and progress
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Old 11-19-2014, 12:23 PM   #35
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It's why we got into flying a floatplane up and down the Inside Passage countless times when we it would have been easy to talk ourselves out of spending the money. It's why we got into going to the UK every other year to run a narrowboat on the canals when it would have been easy to talk ourselves out spending the money. It's why we bought our diesel cruiser 16 years ago, when it would have been easy to talk ourselves out of spending the money. And our lives have been vastly enriched by the experiences we've had doing these things.
Anyone that flies a floatplane has got it dialed in

Seriously, you cannot look at buying a boat, plane, or sportscar as an investment...period. They are pleasure toys to enrich your living experience and to thin your wallet. I prefer to keep the thinning to a minimum but it is required with anything fun. That is why you buy something at the bottom of the depreciation curve. Not to create investment opportunity but to minimize loss. Invest your money into other assets that will appreciate.

I absolutely hate the fact that my and the next generation use the acronym YOLO for You Only Live Once. What the hell has anybody under the age of 40 done with themselves recently? You don't see many of these people on adventurous journeys...they think the greatest thing in life is a killer Facebook post. Purchase a boat with a great financial strategy but don't view it negatively if you lose some money...you'll have much better photos and stories to tell down the road.

Seriously, if anyone needs someone to sit right seat in a float plane...I will donate my time
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:14 PM   #36
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Well, this is what the Inside Passage looks like from the left seat.....
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Old 11-19-2014, 01:24 PM   #37
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JDA you need to check on financing immediately. In the price range you mention anything large enough to live on is going to be an older boat and financing an older boat may not be as available as you think. Plus many lenders will not loan for a live aboard boat, they want you to have a more permanent address.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:52 PM   #38
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I was able to get financing on a 79' as a liveaboard...a very tough thing to do with most conventional financing. Shoot me a PM and I can send you the lender I used if interested.
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Old 11-19-2014, 02:53 PM   #39
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Well, this is what the Inside Passage looks like from the left seat.....
Looks terrible, I feel bad for you...

Floatplanes: Combing two of my favorite hobbies together
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Old 11-27-2014, 03:33 PM   #40
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Met a lender at Seattle boat show that would finance older boats. When the time comes, I'll try him first.
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