Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 09-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Newbie Questions-Fuel Consumption and Stabilizers

Hello all,

I am in the process of preparing to live aboard with my family. I will be purchasing a Trawler somewhere in the 60-70' range. I have specifically been looking at a 65' steel boat that I found. I was wondering what fuel consumption is considered good on a Trawler that size? The broker says she gets 10 gph at 8 knots, that seems a bit high, or maybe not because of the length, not sure?

Also, this boat does not have stabilizers. I do plan to to do some world cruising at some point. Does every long range boat need stabilizers? Is this something that can be added? Anyone know what the ball park cost on adding them to a 65' would be? Is it a big job?

Thanks for your help. I have so much to learn.
__________________
Advertisement

GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
Guru
 
ben2go's Avatar
 
City: Upstate,SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: The Caroliner
Vessel Model: Plans to build 30' Spira Sitka
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,080
Welcome.Sorry I can't be of any help on a boat that size.Someone will be around to give an opinion stabilizers and fuel burn rates.There is some good info on stabilizers.Shouldn't be hard to find use those search terms with forum search bar.
__________________

__________________
BEN'S BOAT BLOG

ben2go is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #3
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Welcome GalaxyGirl. Been following your thread over at CF. Your a pretty gutsy gal IMO.
Good luck in your quest, I think your grabbing a tiger by the tail but if anyone can pull it off I'm sure you'll find a way.

All boats are compromises. Find the one that checks off the most boxes on your wish list and pull the trigger. Cruising a 65' will most likely involve a captain for insurance purposes at first. You can add stabilizers to the boat and the sky is the limit depending upon system chosen. There's a lot of ways to skin that cat.

Here are a couple threads to get you started.

which stabilizers for us?

Options for active fin stabilizers
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 12:33 AM   #4
Veteran Member
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 82
Keep it under 65 foot or else you are considered a ship with more requirements to meet.

Keep it under 75 tons or else you limit the number of facilities which can haul you for maintenance and repairs.

Most affordable marinas are limited to 50 feet max.

Most mooring fields are limited to 40 ish feet.

6 foot draft or less is ideal for most cruising grounds.


-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 06:41 AM   #5
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 16,525
Fuel burn is deterimened by weight and speed.

It takes 3 hp per ton (2240lbs) for fast cruising , about 2 hP per ton at modest speeds, basically the Sq Rt of the LWL.

on many boats about 15 Hp can be put into the water for each gallon per hour of fuel burn.

Why so large a boat? Are you going with a dozen folks.

Just under 65 ft a normal boat will operate at 7K , a great boat at 8K with modest fuel burn.

That's about 170-200 miles per day if the weather is mild, fast enough for most folks on a budget.

Good hunting , but if you are contemplating passagemaking , only one boat in 100 will be built for the job.

Read up , consult a NA .

FF
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 10:14 AM   #6
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Keep it under 65 foot or else you are considered a ship with more requirements to meet.

Keep it under 75 tons or else you limit the number of facilities which can haul you for maintenance and repairs.

Most affordable marinas are limited to 50 feet max.

Most mooring fields are limited to 40 ish feet.

6 foot draft or less is ideal for most cruising grounds.


-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/


Gene, have not heard from you, and thinking of you time to time as discussions come up. Start a new discussion and bring us up to date. I stil think you are crazy in a nice way of course.

GalaxyGirl, my wife bought the Eagle a 58 ft, 40+ ton, full displacement, single engine long range coastle cruisier, which has made a great liveaboard and very stable. 2 miles per gallon at 8 knot is possible/reasonable, and many full displacements do not have stablization. The Eagle does not have stabilization and been up/down the pacific coast several times by previous owner.

Becareful of steel boats that have been converted from commercial to pleasure as the may be have rust and mold as tbe steel was not prepped and protected on inside. Steel tank and boat rust from the inside out.

It would really help is you told us about your self, location, plans, and the boat.

Anyway post you question
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 03:24 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
Keep it under 65 foot or else you are considered a ship with more requirements to meet.

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/
Hey Gene, thanks for the advice. Would you mind elaborating on this comment a bit. I tried to look it up, but couldn't find anything.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Gene, have not heard from you, and thinking of you time to time as discussions come up. Start a new discussion and bring us up to date. I stil think you are crazy in a nice way of course.

GalaxyGirl, my wife bought the Eagle a 58 ft, 40+ ton, full displacement, single engine long range coastle cruisier, which has made a great liveaboard and very stable. 2 miles per gallon at 8 knot is possible/reasonable, and many full displacements do not have stablization. The Eagle does not have stabilization and been up/down the pacific coast several times by previous owner.

Becareful of steel boats that have been converted from commercial to pleasure as the may be have rust and mold as tbe steel was not prepped and protected on inside. Steel tank and boat rust from the inside out.

It would really help is you told us about your self, location, plans, and the boat.

Anyway post you question
Hey Phil,

Sorry about that.

I am planning to sell my house and buy a Trawler in a year and some change. I will purchase a Trawler to liveaboard and have been trying to figure out what kind/size? I have 5 kids and my mom will also join us. So, I need something big enough to comfortably fit 7. Four of my kids will be teens when this move happens. I live in New England now, but am considering a relocation to Florida. But, either way I will get the boat. I do not have experience operating a boat, but plan on taking some courses and hiring a captain for trips until I learn. We will live at a marina for about 4 or 5 years so my kids can get through High School, then when most of them are off to college I will take off and cruise. I should be comfortable/proficient by then. In the meantime we can take weekend and school vacation short trips. I am going to get a boat that is strong and seaworthy so that I can cruise the world one day.

Phil,
Do you think a good survey will could determine if a boat has internal rust, or is it just one of those things that there's no way to know???

Thanks for your input.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2012, 08:11 PM   #9
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
So now tell us about the boat or the boat you think you need/want.

A survey should be able to give a good idea. You should be able to by crawling aroud the bilge/engine room, and what the boat was previuos used for.

Gee, that is a boat load, and age range. Keep in mind you will be a live aboard 100% of the time and cruising a small % of the time. It is easier to be a live a board in warmer climate, and the marine facilities and slip location is equal to the boat. Not many boats can sleep 7 in comfort and give individual room. On a boat all resouces/things are limited, heat,hot water, storage/closet, sanitation, refrgeration, even AC electricity.
You are looking at one heck of a boat.

Be sure to read the past live a board discussions as we have discussed before.

While looking a boats be sure to look at marines, talk to live aboards, and walk through the boat yards. since you are also looking for a stable boat, you also nned to know what they look like below the water line.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 12:24 AM   #10
Veteran Member
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 82
The actual rule (cut off) is 20 meters, so at 65 ft you are ok, but 66 foot and you are over.

I don't have all the links for you, but a quick google came up with these below.

If you look at this first link about requirements (and others you find on your own) you will notice the requirements stop at 20 meters.

http://boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/reqequip.htm

This next one is not an official link but it gives you an idea of what I am talking bout.

http://www.yachtsdelivered.com/over20m.htm

I have actually had a hard time finding a concise list of requirements for over 20 meters and recreational. If anyone can point me to a good source I would appreciate it.

-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 12:33 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,369
You need a boat big enough to comfortably fit 7 - 120 feet or so will work. A major issue you will encounter is holding tank size for that size of group and possibly even a huge grey water tank. Live aboard reality is indeed facing up to waste water management. As crummy as housing prices are in FL why not get a beach front house where you can park your 24' fishing boat?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 07:23 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
bluebyu's Avatar
 
Vessel Model: Gulfstar 38MC
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 302
As Gene pointed out, lots on the internet about this. I'm Sure Chapmans covers it well.

The rules come from our Uncle Sam (CFR's):

Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:

Hope this helps

Edit; my link just goes to one part. Maybe this will work. Search in parts 125 to 199
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...3/33tab_02.tpl

This is a neat guide about the rules in easy to read form, however it does not cover vessels over 65'. Those rules will be in the CFR's, somewhere.
http://www.uscgboating.org/regulatio..._brochure.aspx
Near the bottom is the link to the guide.
bluebyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 09:37 AM   #13
Veteran Member
 
Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 82
FYI: many people own boats over 65 feet, I just wanted to make you aware of the extra effort required.

Also be aware of line 2 of my post, most boatyards only have 75 ton or less Travel-lifts. You can quickly limit the choice of repair facilities with weight. Most boatyards with larger capacity do not allow DIY work, so you pay their price or go elsewhere but elsewhere is limited.


-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com
Gene is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #14
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
Went to the Seattle boat show yesterday, visited. and went on some 60+ ft with 7 in mind. At about 70+ had 4 staterooms, ski bridge, and crew quarters. We have used the pilot house as spare bed room. and even tbe back deck. I gree with Gene above 60 ft there is big jump ln availabilty and cost. It gets to a point you do not ask the cost. We have run into that many times.

Also a wide body, no side decks,mor common on 60+ ft boats offers more living area. The Eagle is a wide body and if we bought another body it would be a wide body. So there are boats that could comfortable accomodate 7 people, but you would still be relying on marine facilities.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
So now tell us about the boat or the boat you think you need/want.

A survey should be able to give a good idea. You should be able to by crawling aroud the bilge/engine room, and what the boat was previuos used for.

Gee, that is a boat load, and age range. Keep in mind you will be a live aboard 100% of the time and cruising a small % of the time. It is easier to be a live a board in warmer climate, and the marine facilities and slip location is equal to the boat. Not many boats can sleep 7 in comfort and give individual room. On a boat all resouces/things are limited, heat,hot water, storage/closet, sanitation, refrgeration, even AC electricity.
You are looking at one heck of a boat.

Be sure to read the past live a board discussions as we have discussed before.

While looking a boats be sure to look at marines, talk to live aboards, and walk through the boat yards. since you are also looking for a stable boat, you also nned to know what they look like below the water line.
I agree, I do have a boat load. That's why I've decided to just go ahead and get a big boy boat. I want to be sure that we don't feel cramped, especially since we will be full time live aboard.

You're so right, the marina is VERY important. For us, the top of the list includes pump out at the slip, cable hookup, and a pool. I have actually already located at a couple of marinas that I am interested in. I will probably be looking at 30 bucks a foot, but I'm ok with that. I want to be sure that my kids enjoy this new experience as much as I know I will so the pool is a must have for them.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
The actual rule (cut off) is 20 meters, so at 65 ft you are ok, but 66 foot and you are over.

I don't have all the links for you, but a quick google came up with these below.

If you look at this first link about requirements (and others you find on your own) you will notice the requirements stop at 20 meters.

Required Equipment for Recreational Boats - BoatSafe.com

This next one is not an official link but it gives you an idea of what I am talking bout.

Regs and Misc. for Yachts over 20 Meters in Length

I have actually had a hard time finding a concise list of requirements for over 20 meters and recreational. If anyone can point me to a good source I would appreciate it.

-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com/
Thanks for the links Gene,

The requirements don't seem like too big of a deal. Things that a boat that size would probably have anyhow.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #17
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
FYI: many people own boats over 65 feet, I just wanted to make you aware of the extra effort required.

Also be aware of line 2 of my post, most boatyards only have 75 ton or less Travel-lifts. You can quickly limit the choice of repair facilities with weight. Most boatyards with larger capacity do not allow DIY work, so you pay their price or go elsewhere but elsewhere is limited.


-----

Gene :^)
Http://www.Strathbelle.com
Yeah, the yard problem I won't be able to get around. thanks for bringing that to my attention.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Fill View Post
Went to the Seattle boat show yesterday, visited. and went on some 60+ ft with 7 in mind. At about 70+ had 4 staterooms, ski bridge, and crew quarters. We have used the pilot house as spare bed room. and even tbe back deck. I gree with Gene above 60 ft there is big jump ln availabilty and cost. It gets to a point you do not ask the cost. We have run into that many times.

Also a wide body, no side decks,mor common on 60+ ft boats offers more living area. The Eagle is a wide body and if we bought another body it would be a wide body. So there are boats that could comfortable accomodate 7 people, but you would still be relying on marine facilities.
Phil, what size is your boat?

You just reminded me of another question that I had. What's the deal with walk around decks. You mentioned that your boat is wide body, so that means that you do not have a walk around, correct? How does that effect docking if at all? I would prefer not having the walk around because I wouldn't want to sacrifice the interior space, but I think I read somewhere that the boat should have it or it is difficult to dock??? What's your take on that?
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 02:10 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
You need a boat big enough to comfortably fit 7 - 120 feet or so will work. A major issue you will encounter is holding tank size for that size of group and possibly even a huge grey water tank. Live aboard reality is indeed facing up to waste water management. As crummy as housing prices are in FL why not get a beach front house where you can park your 24' fishing boat?
Waterfront home- Been there/done that.

I think we'll be ok with the wastewater as we will have a pump out at our slip.
GalaxyGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2012, 03:59 PM   #20
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Walkaround decks can be a real bonus depending on where you boat, the size of your crew, and the characteristics of the boat itself. For this area (PNW) and two people we would not even consider a boat without full walkaround decks. It's one of the things that helped sell us on the idea of a GB even though the boat's design is not one of our favorites.

For a boat with a larger crew or with at least a bow thruster if not a stern thruster as well, and in places where getting a line around a bull rail on float right away is not a common docking requirement, walkaround decks are probably not so important, particularly if there is good access to the dock from the aft cockpit or swimstep.

I'm curious if pumpouts at individual slips is a common thing in some areas. While our 2,000+ boat marina has portable pumpout carts that can be wheeled to one's boat and then returned to the pumpout station for emptying, and at least one marina in this area has a pumpout "barge" that will come to your boat (for a fee), I'm not aware of any marinas in this area that have pumpout equipment assigned or built-in to individual slips.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
buying, purchase

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012