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Old 09-17-2012, 05:07 PM   #21
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Beware - another long reply

The Eagle is 58 ft, 40+ ton, single engine, full displacement, 3 staterooms, 2 baths so itís sort of a big boy/girl boat. Well, its bigger than most but not as big as some.

As boats become bigger there are more wide body and/or side deck on one side. Also the boats deck/hull, free board, is high so a person can not step on to the dock, except from the swim platform, or young/spry so you can climb/scurry down the side. I can if necessary, but my wife can not. The Eagleís bow is 10 ft and the stern is 6 ft off the water. So docking/maneuvering becomes the helms responsibility to get close enough to the dock so a person can step off on to the dock, so side decks become of little use. One of my wifeís requirements was wide body and the railing/sides had to be solid so passenger/crew where protect within the confines of the boat.

A wide body, is only the length of the salon that has not side deck. In the case of the Eagle its about 20 ft. There is usually a side deck to about the middle, pilot house, and the stern of the boat. Control/maneuver the bow and/or the stern and the mid section will follow. Mid spring line and/or the stern line are the first lines secured to the dock, on either of those two lines you can maneuver on. Spring line is preferred.

On bigger boats, at least in the PNW, the command bridge is enclosed and called a ski lounge. Many ski lounges have a bathroom, sitting and some a sleeping area. The Eagle pilot house has a dinette area that can be made in to the bed/sleeping area. Also many have a crew quarters, in the lazaretto, under the stern deck, close to the engine room.

I was very surprised the bank and especially the insurance company did not require a captain/crew when we bought the Eagle as going from a 28 ft, 7 ton boat to a 58 ft, 40+ ton boat is a big step/pucker factor. Be aware that many marines do not accept work/project/ugly boats. The reason we are on the commercial dock is we can get away with more than the fancy pleasure docks.

The marinas we have living in had/have a pump out boat that came to the boat each week to pump the waste for about 15 bucks/week. The new Everett marina has pump out at the slip. If you are in a big marina, a pump out barge/boat can be a good income as most live a board would much rather pay and not worry about it. Pump outs are not my thing. Big mess! I clean/unplug toilets but I do not do pump outs. I mean you have to draw the lines someplace. Oh, maine toilets are a whole discussion by its selve as most dirt people to not know how to use/flush a marine toilet.

Lastly, banks, insurance, and marinas limit and charge higher for live a boards. In the state of Washington 7% of the marina slips can be live a boards, and marinas restrict/limit pets/children. So there are regulations/restrictions in marines, so read the rule/bi law very closely. Before we moved to the Everett marina I talk personally with the port and the marine director about grandchildren, our dog, our boat, the future plans of the marina/dock, and my personal live style before we moved.

Bottom line you do not want to be a live aboard on a bigger than average/normal slip and be giving 30 days notice to vacate, which has happened to many live a boards, including us. So make sure you stay informed as to the marinas plans and change in policy. And you thought being a live aboard was easy?
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Old 09-19-2012, 05:38 AM   #22
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I would consider a boat for the first 5 years dockside , and a different boat for actual cruising.

Volume will be required for 7 people , esp 4 teens .

Look in middle America at the great house boats , on the Ten Tom and 'between the lakes" is prime houseboat area. 65 long 20 ft wide and usually 2 stories with top deck too.

No big deal putting down to Fl , after you figure out where you will chose to locate.

Then when you need a cruiser , you will have had the time to study, learn and decide brown or blue water , single or twin , gas or diesel and all the other usual decisions.

A boat is a specialized tool, its always better to drive nails with a hammer than a pair of pliers.

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Old 09-19-2012, 07:31 AM   #23
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I don't want to point out the elephant in the room, but does anyone else think that the idea of a FIRST boating experience being 70' to be a bit... umm... out there?

I suppose that if you have the money and can hire a crew and also be a "check writer" for all the regular maintenance than it is an option. However, I would see a 70' first yacht being a toy for a multimillionaire and not someone who wants to completely change their lifestyle to boating. The learning curve is just too steep and you could too quickly become overwhelmed with everything you need to learn about boating to live aboard with five kids and a grandmother.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you are setting yourself up for a major culture shock and certainly turning a large pile of money into a very small one in a VERY short period of time. Be ready for that... That's all I am saying.

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Old 09-19-2012, 08:00 AM   #24
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I don't want to point out the elephant in the room, but does anyone else think that the idea of a FIRST boating experience being 70' to be a bit... umm... out there?

I suppose that if you have the money and can hire a crew and also be a "check writer" for all the regular maintenance than it is an option. However, I would see a 70' first yacht being a toy for a multimillionaire and not someone who wants to completely change their lifestyle to boating. The learning curve is just too steep and you could too quickly become overwhelmed with everything you need to learn about boating to live aboard with five kids and a grandmother.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you are setting yourself up for a major culture shock and certainly turning a large pile of money into a very small one in a VERY short period of time. Be ready for that... That's all I am saying.

Tom-
Maybe not a toy...maybe a fresh start....and if it works great...if it doesn't it may just be a handful of great memories and some that forced her back to land...

It's only money and with enough of it.... anything is possible...
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:15 AM   #25
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Fair enough... No offense intended by the way. Just noting my feelings as public record.
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Old 09-19-2012, 08:32 AM   #26
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....and certainly turning a large pile of money into a very small one in a VERY short period of time. Be ready for that...
Do you know how to sell your boat for a million dollars?

First, buy a two million dollar boat.........

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Old 09-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #27
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Hello all,

I am in the process of preparing to live aboard with my family. I will be purchasing a Trawler somewhere in the 60-70' range. I have specifically been looking at a 65' steel boat that I found. I was wondering what fuel consumption is considered good on a Trawler that size? The broker says she gets 10 gph at 8 knots, that seems a bit high, or maybe not because of the length, not sure?

Also, this boat does not have stabilizers. I do plan to to do some world cruising at some point. Does every long range boat need stabilizers? Is this something that can be added? Anyone know what the ball park cost on adding them to a 65' would be? Is it a big job?

Thanks for your help. I have so much to learn.
That is high fuel consumption. You should be targeting 1.5 to 2 nautical mpg at cruise speeds of around 75%-80% of hull speed. I think your broker may be mistaken, or she has twins or are grossly oversized.

Yes, most people believe that every long range boat needs stabilization. Perhaps a read of Robert Beebe's "Voyaging Under Power" would be of interest to you. He discusses the need for stabilization on ocean going power boats at length. For an install of active fins on a 65' boat I would not be surprised if the entire system cost $75 - $100k, depending on what hydraulics were currently available.

Regarding interior rust on a steel boat, yes a proper survey will discover that. Steel is as dry as fiberglass if properly insulated. Some use foam, in my case, I lined Delfin's hull with acoustic cork, resulting in a zero funk factor.

FF is right that you might consider a different boat for world cruising than for live aboard. They really are two entirely separate missions and by the time you feel you are competent enough to cruise extensively, perhaps some of the teenagers will be off to college, or feel otherwise. As a mother, you already know this, but a child's ability to make everyone in the vicinity miserable is inversely proportional to the distance between you and the child. For live aboards, that argues for a fair amount of space. For cruising, it needn't be, especially if the child is off to school. Plus, when cruising, one's sense of needed space has always shrunk for us, and we have seen families of 5 living quite happily on 38' boats. If you did choose to buy a live aboard optimized boat vs. a multipurpose live aboard/world cruiser, your world of choices open up a great deal. Converted tug boats come to mind. Mechanically capable of going out for weekends, capacious and cheap. Spend some time on Yachtworld.com using their advanced search function and you'll find vessels that might cost $300,000 that could be large enough for your clan. Then when you're ready to push off from the dock for a few years, you will be very knowledgeable on what you need and can pick a vessel with stabilization that will suit the purpose.

Hope that helps, and you have my admiration.
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Old 09-19-2012, 01:36 PM   #28
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Waterfront home- Been there/done that.

I think we'll be ok with the wastewater as we will have a pump out at our slip.

So you already have a slip? What size is the slip?

Do you have a picture or a web site of the boat you are looking at so we have some idea.

Good advise to maybe buy a good live aboard now, and a blue water ocean boat later on. You are probable going to by a lot more for a live aboard which is blue water world cruise capable. Very few people actaully cruise the world and/or cross and ocean. A sail boat is better to cross an ocean than a trawler and cheaper.
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Old 09-19-2012, 02:10 PM   #29
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I would say that most of us didnt know much, when we first started. The learning curve goes up steeply and we all learn as a matter of course. I suspect Gal Girl, will quickly become the expert. I can already "see" a differance in her first post to last. She is hard charger.. her boat will be shipshape and her crew knowledgable... my guess...
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Old 09-20-2012, 02:59 AM   #30
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Hi GalaxyGirl,

My wife and I will soon become liveaboards as well! We have a Fleming 55, and in answer to your fuel consumption question, we get (at 8 knots) 1.4nm/US gallon.

Piers and Lin
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:06 PM   #31
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It looks like another wantabe live a board bites the dust. Becoming a live aboard is a lot more expensive and harder than most people think. Too bad as she sounded promising? However, with the number and the age difference it would be difficult/trying. My folks would never ever live on a boat and stayed on the boat twice. My mother wore a live vest the whole time.
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:11 PM   #32
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How do you mean?
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Old 09-26-2012, 12:25 PM   #33
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I don't want to point out the elephant in the room, but does anyone else think that the idea of a FIRST boating experience being 70' to be a bit... umm... out there?

I suppose that if you have the money and can hire a crew and also be a "check writer" for all the regular maintenance than it is an option. However, I would see a 70' first yacht being a toy for a multimillionaire and not someone who wants to completely change their lifestyle to boating. The learning curve is just too steep and you could too quickly become overwhelmed with everything you need to learn about boating to live aboard with five kids and a grandmother.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you are setting yourself up for a major culture shock and certainly turning a large pile of money into a very small one in a VERY short period of time. Be ready for that... That's all I am saying.

Tom-

Something isn't right with this whole euphoric idea.
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:43 PM   #34
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Something isn't right with this whole euphoric idea.
I see NOTHING wrong with the idea, assuming you can afford it, go into the project with your eyes wide open and are willing to learn. Sure you could spend a lot of money, but you can't take it with you when you die so starting out on a huge adventure now might just make sense. Some folks take baby steps and others just jump right in and have a great time. I say go for it, and look for a boat that already has stabilizers....Arctic Traveller
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:19 AM   #35
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Keep it under 65 foot or else you are considered a ship with more requirements to meet.
Which are very minimal and mostly related to sidelights, radio use, fire extinguishers, and other minor items that a "well found" vessel would ordinarily follow in any event. There is nothing that even approaches being considered a "show stopper."
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Old 09-27-2012, 05:53 AM   #36
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"There is nothing that even approaches being considered a "show stopper.""

Except perhaps the skill set to operate the boat alone.
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Old 09-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #37
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"There is nothing that even approaches being considered a "show stopper.""

Except perhaps the skill set to operate the boat alone.

I find larger vessels usually easier to operate...you aren't usually asked to tuck them into impossible places like the under 40 crowd is often asked to do.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:07 AM   #38
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There is some interesting reading with reguards to these guys trip around the world. Along with the design of the vessel etc. Not what you are looking for but some very real information. Ya after a few thousand miles and being placed on there side a couple of times they where in want of stabalizers.
Just some more info for you.

http://idlewildexpedition.ca/index.php


http://georgebuehler.com/Idelwild.html
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:24 AM   #39
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Which are very minimal and mostly related to sidelights, radio use, fire extinguishers, and other minor items that a "well found" vessel would ordinarily follow in any event. There is nothing that even approaches being considered a "show stopper."
My reply was appropriate for this thread, especially when you consider that the OP is completely new to boating. For experienced skippers the added requirements may not be much. For a newbie, it is a more to learn and more tasks to keep track of when underway. Especially while still trying to learn the very basic of basics. The OP can not walk yet and we are saying that "running hurdles in track is no big deal, you just gotta jump every so often. Go for it. You won't fall on your face."

For example: the OP doesn't even know how to use a VHF and yet somehow it is ok to start off having to monitor 16 and 13 with call signs and a radio log? It is not complicated, but if you have never even talked over a VHF it is more to learn while you already have so much else to learn.

The OP and others on the board are pretty quick to brush aside any extra complications as no big deal without taking into account that the OP has zero experience and even the most basic and simple things will be a learning experience, so piling on more and more becomes a big deal. There are so many facets to a newcomer looking at not just a play toy boat, but instead a really big, very complex, very heavy, live aboard, and long distance cruising vessel. Other than a merchant ship it doesn't get more complicated for a person with zero experience.

Just because the OP has patched drywall, repaired houses, and has a very optimistic way of posting doesn't mean the OP has the skills to operate large machinery in a very hostile environment effected by wind, current, obstacles, water depth, and other traffic. We don't know how well the OP judges distances, set/drift, turning radius, or stopping distance. And the OP has no real crew, just a bunch of very young kids and a mom, so would be very much single handling if not really distracted keeping kids in line.

Does the OP even know what "spring line" means?

By keeping below 20 meters, places like West Marine can help and answer questions. The information publications available everywhere for standard safety equipment and navigation cover 20 meters or less. Below 20 meters the OP could find relevant information just about anywhere, even from other boaters at the marina.

At most every marina and even here on this board most boaters are completely unaware that anything is different when you exceed 20 meters since not many owner operated boats are greater than that. Usually only paid Captains have any idea what I am talking about, owners do not.


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Old 09-27-2012, 12:19 PM   #40
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Gene

You had my ear until you said "West marine can help." Or exceed 20 meters and need a crew. Surely you jest.

That thought aside, Galaxy Girl is amongst a truckload of dreamers who are trying to escape from life's toils and foibles. These dreams exist in all of us, are the basis of things like TF and imbue the human spirit. Progress is best made by those who aren't smart enough to know something can't be done. Next thing you know someone will suggest GG attend Power Squadron courses with a bunch of old fogies. That could really scare her away and do some broker out of a commission!
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