The long, rambling thoughts of an indecisive man.

[Wayfarer]

Like Nike says "Just Do It"
I often thought about it, always had a reason for waiting. Now I'm too old, I need too much comfort these days! Still have a boat and love the boat. Go out as much as I can. Like you said, if it doesn't work out, at least you gave it a shot. You shouldn't even have to sell the boat. Just get a slip at a marina and move into a dirt home. Take it in small bights. Get the boat, go on trips. Try 2 weeks, then a month. Then sell the home and throw off the bow lines.


Mark Twain said something about "20 years from now, the regrets you'll have are the things you didn't try. Throw off the bow lines and sail away." (words to that effect anyway) Sorry to Mark Twain.

Thanks Molly! And I'm sure Mr. Twain would just be thrilled to still be coming up in conversation after all these years.

 

[Wayfarer]

I think you've done an incredible job of thinking through it all and reaching a conclusion or decision, at least for now. The one thing you've gotten started is "saving" and regardless of other decisions that will benefit you. However, most of us need an incentive, something to be saving for. For us, it was always retirement, although it came earlier than we ever anticipated. However, saving for it sure helped us resist a lot of temptation of things unimportant to us. For years others asked why we didn't buy a larger home in the new resort type area. Well, ultimately, we're retired and they're working, and one reason is we didn't buy the home they did.

I see it happening for you. In five years you'll have the money for your boat and then all these others will say "he must have hit the lottery or gotten an inheritance" as they'll be astonished you're buying a boat. No, you simply set it as a goal and every day along the way made choices that got you there, none of those choices worsening your quality of life.

Having known others in the industry, I'd say most of them share your views that working on ships and owning a small boat are not at all similar. I have a friend who is a chief engineer on a 400'+ yacht and his idea is to retire to New Zealand and get a four wheel drive and tow a 14' aluminum boat.

I love reading of someone focused on a goal as you are. That's how one reaches goals. They don't just accidentally happen.

Thank you for the vote of confidence! It means a lot. Yet another positive aspect of this is that it does give me clear goal to work toward. About three years ago, I got to the last big goal I had set for my career, and since then I've been a bit directionless. So I'm happy to have a big target to shoot for again.

Also, as you said, saving never hurt anybody. So I suppose a 'second worse thing that can happen' is that in five years, I decide I hate boats, and this was all a stupid idea. Well, then I have 50k extra clams just sitting in the bank. There are worse problems to have.

 

[Wayfarer]

Wow, what a great post. Dona and I have no regrets, we are full of memories of good times along with a few groundings.

Thanks Cliff! I know the feeling. I suppose you never realize just how good it feels to be floating until you've run aground once or twice.

 

[Wayfarer]

I moved aboard by chance during a marital separation. 16 years and three boats later I cannot imagine moving back onto dirt while I still have my health. If anything my life on the water, and winter ice, has kept me active, healthier and breathing cleaner air than any city offers. I suspect that you are a bit younger and wonder if you will winter at Oneida Lake or travel.

I will most certainly travel if at all possible. A big part of the plan is staying out of the winter. I know a lot of people like it, but I've had enough snow, slush, ice, and lead colored sky for this lifetime, thankyouverymuch!

I also agree that life aboard will make me more active. Simple acts like going to the grocery store or taking out the trash are inherently more difficult from a boat. I think a little more of that will do me good, honestly. I've gotten too damn comfortable here. My life is altogether too convenient. It's made me lazy.

I'm sure I'll regret saying those last few sentences... lol.

 

[Wayfarer]

That’s exciting Dave . Just making the decision is huge . Joy and I have been struggling with the decision for years and will probably keep on struggling with it.We are moving in the right direction buy thinning out some stuff around the house. Just this week I gave away some old woodworking equipment and a pile of walnut lumber. Out of sight out of mind.
I’m sure that getting the decision made is allowing you to sleep better and the excitement probably ain’t so bad either. Go for it man. The journey that you’re going through now and the planning you’ll be doing is going to make the time waiting fly by. I only know you as a TF buddy but close enough to say I’m proud for you . Sail on my brother .

Thanks Marty! That really means a lot! It does feel pretty good to have made the decision. I suppose that's part of the reason I posted yesterday. I've got excitement building up, and I needed somewhere to deposit some packets of it, before I run off and do something crazy. Like buy a boat.

It also feels good to get rid of stuff, doesn't it? I've been walking by those drums for 5 years thinking 'I've got 5 grand tied up in those damn things. I really should just sell 'em.' I then promptly forget they exist as soon as I'm no longer staring directly at them. It felt really good to finally be rid of them. I know a lot of people find it difficult to downsize, but I won't have any such trouble.

I'm sure you and Joy will come to the right decision for you. Worst case scenario, you'll just have to enjoy your beautiful William for a while longer. Could be worse!

 

[OldDan1943]

Going bald? Wear a hat and think of all the money you will save and buy more things for your boat.

 

[Wayfarer]

I will echo what others have said. You have given it plenty of thought and are on your way to achieving a goal. I really like the attitude of "what is the worst that can happen?". Once you know the answer to that, and are OK with that as a possible outcome, you have a degree of freedom to take the plunge.

Thanks Dave. I agree. The 'whats the worst that could happen' approach is one of my very favorite decision making tools. Plus, teamed with an occasional 'What could possibly go wrong??' it can be pretty funny, too.

 

[psneeld]

The big thing is for me knowing no matter what happens, one can make the best of it while fixing it or moving on.

At 20 something, I never envisioned the ups and downs like they really happened along the paths of life, but I worked through them like most people.

I didn't chase my dreams, they actually just came along the way in life, maybe a little watered down but hey, dreams don't always include the overlaps..... but reality sure does.

So it's not bad, the dream is still realized and the fringe can be just as great too.

 

[Donna]

Buy the boat........that is all.....

 

[Comodave]

So, now that you have had all the great advise and had time to think it over, what boat did you buy?

 

[Wayfarer]

So, now that you have had all the great advise and had time to think it over, what boat did you buy?

I got myself a Fleming 75 with a full crew and a twelve pound fortress anchor.

No, not really. For the time being, I'll have to make do with my kayaks for a few more years.

Originally, I really wanted a KK42. I loved the look, the layout, and the idea of a raised pilothouse with doors opening to walk around side decks on either side. I loved the way the galley and [STRIKE]salon[/STRIKE] [STRIKE]saloon [/STRIKE]living room opened out onto the big covered cockpit. It ticked all the boxes really. I went and looked at several of them.

Turns out, I can't afford one that's worth buying. They're all getting a bit old now, and will be even older in another 4 years. There's no doubt that there are still some beautiful examples of them still out there, they're just worth more than I can afford. I'm not looking for a project. Also, I'm fully planning on financing a small portion of the boat. That's difficult to do with a boat that's more than 20 years old.

In the end, the KKs are great boats, but they're more than I need. I don't have any grand plans to cross oceans. Realistically, a good coastal cruiser will much better suit my needs, and my budget.

At this point, what I'd like to do is get the nicest, newest Monk 36 I can lay my hands on. That's with the market as it stands right now, at least. Who knows what will be for sale in another four years.

36 feet is definitely at the bottom end in terms of the size range I've been considering, but having been aboard a few, I really like the Monks a lot. I think the layout makes very good use of space, and feels more cozy than cramped to me. I've been on bigger boats that were much less comfortable. I think it'll be enough. And because I'm not going for something bigger, I can get something newer and better maintained and fitted out. In theory anyway.

Even if it's not a Monk 36, I'd like something in the same vein. Something manageable. Something I can single hand without it being a pain. Walk around side decks are a huge plus, and doors on both sides of the house are preferred. I'd prefer a single diesel with a bow thruster. My backup engine will be a TowBoat US membership. Minimal exterior teak, and as low maintenance as possible. My preliminary budget at this point is 180,000.

 

[South of Heaven]

Dave,

Cool post. I'm sort of in a similar "boat" as you. I'm 36, single (dating), no kids, no pets. I decided last winter that I was gonna take the plunge and be a full time liveaboard.

So fast forward about 9 months later.....I'm still on track to do it and am very excited! I'm gonna be renting out my home this fall and then moving onto the Camano. I'll be in Boston onboard even in the winter....gonna be tough but Boston actually has a large liveaboard community so it's "able" to be done..... Lol.

I'm in the prime of my career and will be in Boston for at least another 10 years , SO I'm stuck with the snow! Will the Camano be my boat for those upcoming years??? Probably not....Next year I'll be looking at moving up into the 36' to 40' ish range of trawlers.

 

[Surprise]

I think I’m in the same not-boat as the OP.

 

[Wayfarer]

Dave,

Cool post. I'm sort of in a similar "boat" as you. I'm 36, single (dating), no kids, no pets. I decided last winter that I was gonna take the plunge and be a full time liveaboard.

So fast forward about 9 months later.....I'm still on track to do it and am very excited! I'm gonna be renting out my home this fall and then moving onto the Camano. I'll be in Boston onboard even in the winter....gonna be tough but Boston actually has a large liveaboard community so it's "able" to be done..... Lol.

I'm in the prime of my career and will be in Boston for at least another 10 years , SO I'm stuck with the snow! Will the Camano be my boat for those upcoming years??? Probably not....Next year I'll be looking at moving up into the 36' to 40' ish range of trawlers.

Good For you, man. That's definitely exciting. I wish I could dive in that soon! Good luck with the move, and keep us posted. I'll be living vicariously through you for a few years.

 

[Wayfarer]

I think I’m in the same not-boat as the OP.

Oh yeah?? Tell us more! Welcome to the forum!

 

[BrianSmith]

Once we decided we wanted to try living aboard, we decided we'd buy a "practice boat." A little smaller than we really wanted, quite old (40 yrs), in good condition, and WAAAAAY less money than we knew we'd spend on the "real boat". It gave us all kinds of great experience, taught us things we absolutely wanted and didn't want on the "real boat", and the financial risk was very low. Had it for about 18 months before we said "Yep - we're going to do it!" We now have had the "real boat" for 2 1/2 years and have lived on it full time for 2, been in the Bahamas since March 1. We're very happy with it, and I think a big part of that is everything we learned from the "practice boat".
Ready... fire... aim!

 

[Heap]

Making the Jump

Make sure you have a reliable internet connection.
Get a boat with a large, enclosed shower.
In the end, the rich guy is the one with all the stories to tell.

 

[rgano]

Dave,
You sound like the kinda guy I'd enjoy meeting someday! I don't think I saw in all the foregoing palaver what actual experience you have had at the helm of boats in the size you are looking at. are you mechanically handy? Can you expound, just for giggles?

I have met a lot of trawler owners over the years, and it is my personal observation that at least half of them had no earlier significant boating experience while a goodly number are former sailboat owners. Then there are some like me.

I bought a wooden for $89K GB42 in 1986 (I was 41) at the 21st year of my 24-year Navy career and sold it for $63K in 2015. I could conn the heck out of a destroyer, but a trawler where I would be responsible for EVERYTHING? And the only boats I had previously owned were a canoe and an 8-foot punt my Dad and I built.

My GB was a beauty with lots of exterior varnish and was always being mistaken for a wooden boat. In order to afford it, I did ALL maintenance including hull painting, and I only had mechanics aboard half a dozen times for short stays in all the years I owned it. Lived board it for about five years total.

Having said that, when I downsized, my goals were to never worry about bio-fouling of the hull again, get twice the 8-knot cruising speed of the GB, and NO DARNED VARNISH WORK. As you can see, I got there.

 

[rgano]

Just saw this gem for you to cut your teeth on, Dave.

I am (very) reluctantly selling my repowered 1984 Mainship MK III. I had visions of 7+ day cruising vacations with my young family, but them, um, not so much. My boys and wife love the water and boating every weekend, but they want to sleep in their own beds each night (for the most part). Between that, and their sports eating up one weekend-day per week, getting something for quick day trips and occasional overnights makes the most sense for now (likely a 30" Grady White - trades welcome!).

I bought the boat in 2012, and it was in immaculate condition when I bought it - same owner for 25+ years.. He had installed phenomenal custom seating on the bridge - an "L" from starboard to aft on bridge - that 100% "makes" this boat better than every other one I have seen. Over the last 5 years I have done everything that could be done to upgrade it to a real cruising boat, including a repower, bow thruster, autopilot, new electronics, battery banks and charging system, etc. The wiring on this boat is a thing of beauty. There is no wood in the cockpit - I pulled out all of that marine plywood that was under the overhang (on either side of the sliding door, as well as the cabinets and above on the starboard and port sides) and had it all replaced with starboard, including new cabinet doors, etc. I also replaced the swim platform. We put in a custom bow cushion, replaced the interior carpet, reupholstered and recushioned the pull out couch and got a new memory foam mattress (that was $$$). We have literally run out of things to do to the boat, and were starting to look at random cosmetic stuff. I haven't put out an ad yet, but will soon. I'm going to ask $45,000 - mine is the only repowered Mainship on the market, everything else comes with a 20-30 year old engine. My "top of my head" list of stuff I've upgraded in the last 5 years is below - if you're interested, email me at bflewis@lewisjohs.com. Boat is on Long Island, New York.

 

[Capt Bill 3]

Just do it!

 

[Kit_L]

Dave wrote:

...Sell the damned thing! The value wouldn't have gone down all that much, so I should get a sizable portion of my loot back

Please don't bank on that; that has not been my experience or the experience of any of my seafaring friends! I have bought and sold a few boats now, each bigger than the last. IF you buy used, and are prepared to put a lot of work in (and document all the work you do) then you might be able to get a substantial amount of your purchase price back. On my last boat (bought for $50,000) I had to spend about $9,000 and two week's full-time work just to get it up to scratch; it's a long familiar story, but the PO did little maintenance, and I did not then know enough to see this clearly—I really liked the boat when I made the offer on it! The asking price was $90,000.

I feel extremely lucky to have got $50,000 for it when I sold it (the Admiral hated it). if you do the maths (as we say here), and factoring in two week's full time work for two people, I lost about 20% when I sold her.

I do not mention this to put you off your plan, though: if you can, and to have a backup, rent your house for 12 months while you live aboard. If you like living aboard, sell the house; if you don't move back on land. Sounds like you're in the perfect position, to me.

 

[toocoys]

The way I see it, the worst that could happen is after a year or two I decide I hate living aboard. So what? Sell the damned thing! The value wouldn't have gone down all that much, so I should get a sizable portion of my loot back, or at least enough for a big fat down payment on a new dirt house. Fine. I'm no worse off than I was at the start, and at least I can say I tried.

Bless you if you read this far. It's a real wall of text, and to be honest, I'm not even sure why I wrote it. I'm not really asking a question, I guess, just sort of organizing my thoughts.

If you have any feedback or suggestions for a guy in my situation, I'd be happy to hear it. Thanks!

I read your wall of text, and here are my thoughts, and our own plans.

We never envisioned living near the water, much less ON the water. I've wanted to move aboard for some time now, but my partner hasn't been so keen on the idea. Recently, he's decided that the full time RV life is getting boring and its time for a change of scenery.

Because we aren't sure what type of boat we want yet, and what features of the boat we must have, we didn't want to jump into a big mountain of debt. Instead we have a friend of ours who has been trying to sell her motor yacht for a few months and has been unsuccessful. We approached her with an opportunity to recoup some of her money spent trying to get the boat ready to sell. She's agreed and will rent us the boat for the next year. We will pay a monthly rent payment which includes the rent and insurance costs. We will also pay for the marina slip fees where we choose to keep it.

This arraignment will give us the opportunity to try out the liveaboard life style and get some experience to better know what we can live without, and what we definitely need, and if its something we even want to do long term.

This isn't an uncommon arraignment either, especially in large areas where boating is common. Perhaps you can search out a boat to rent in an area that you like before you jump in permanently? I know in areas like Miami, where real estate prices are sky high, a lot of people choose to live on the boats, and there's always boats for rent.

In the meantime, you can rent out your house for extra income, and that way if you end up not liking the liveaboard life in a year or two, you always have somewhere permanent to return to.

In our case we are going to let my mother in law live in our RV and make that payment. If we decide to buy a boat, we'll sell her the RV. If we decide we dont like living aboard, we'll find her another apartment close by and move back into our RV.

ETA: BTW... I'm 38 and still have all my hair, but my uncle who's only 6 years older than me was completely and totally bald by the age of 26.

 

[Wayfarer]

Once we decided we wanted to try living aboard, we decided we'd buy a "practice boat." A little smaller than we really wanted, quite old (40 yrs), in good condition, and WAAAAAY less money than we knew we'd spend on the "real boat". It gave us all kinds of great experience, taught us things we absolutely wanted and didn't want on the "real boat", and the financial risk was very low. Had it for about 18 months before we said "Yep - we're going to do it!" We now have had the "real boat" for 2 1/2 years and have lived on it full time for 2, been in the Bahamas since March 1. We're very happy with it, and I think a big part of that is everything we learned from the "practice boat".
Ready... fire... aim!

I can see why this would be a good strategy for those who can do it. I'm not sure I'd be able to maneuver myself financially to make that work, though. It's certainly worth consideration. I have owned a boat in the past. It was more of a weekend cruiser than a liveaboard, but it still gave me a taste of boat ownership. I certainly learned a lot from the experience, though I wish I could have spent more time having fun than learning lessons.

Ready, fire, aim indeed!

 

[Wayfarer]

Make sure you have a reliable internet connection.
Get a boat with a large, enclosed shower.
In the end, the rich guy is the one with all the stories to tell.

The separate usably sized shower stall is on my list of 'must haves.' I don't need a luxury liner, but I also don't want to feel like I'm camping all the time. A good shower that I don't have to share with other marina patrons is something I'm not willing to give up.

 

[Wayfarer]

Dave,
You sound like the kinda guy I'd enjoy meeting someday! I don't think I saw in all the foregoing palaver what actual experience you have had at the helm of boats in the size you are looking at. are you mechanically handy? Can you expound, just for giggles?

I have met a lot of trawler owners over the years, and it is my personal observation that at least half of them had no earlier significant boating experience while a goodly number are former sailboat owners. Then there are some like me.

I bought a wooden for $89K GB42 in 1986 (I was 41) at the 21st year of my 24-year Navy career and sold it for $63K in 2015. I could conn the heck out of a destroyer, but a trawler where I would be responsible for EVERYTHING? And the only boats I had previously owned were a canoe and an 8-foot punt my Dad and I built.

My GB was a beauty with lots of exterior varnish and was always being mistaken for a wooden boat. In order to afford it, I did ALL maintenance including hull painting, and I only had mechanics aboard half a dozen times for short stays in all the years I owned it. Lived board it for about five years total.

Having said that, when I downsized, my goals were to never worry about bio-fouling of the hull again, get twice the 8-knot cruising speed of the GB, and NO DARNED VARNISH WORK. As you can see, I got there.

Thanks Rich! Prepare to giggle away as I expound.

I have owned a boat in the past, but it was a horse of a different color, really. I had a 30 foot cruiser with a planing hull and twin gas inboard/outboards. It was big enough to live on for a week or two, but not at all suited for full time living.

I got to be reasonably handy getting her around, and I spend my time at work maneuvering a 630 foot freighter, so I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to handle a 36-42 footer. If that sounds cocky or arrogant, It wasn't meant to. The skills really don't translate directly from one to the other. I'm 100% certain that it will take me just as long to figure out a trawler as it did to get the hang of the freighter. Besides, I'll be mostly single handing the trawler, and not having a full crew of 17 to make up for my many shortcomings will definitely make things harder.

In terms of actually maintaining a boat, I only have a few years of experience with one one of my own, so the thought of being responsible for the ENTIRE thing is definitely daunting. That said, I'm generally pretty happy to pick up a new skill, and have every intention of doing the majority of the work myself. I know I can do dumb manual labor, like sanding and painting, and I'm sure I can figure out basic plumbing, wood working, fiberglassing, simple electrical and and mechanical stuff. I don't think I'd trust myself to rebuild a transmission, though.

I learned a lot of lessons the hard way when I bought my first boat, and I plan to get myself something that's been MUCH better maintained the next time around. Something with a minimum of brightwork to sand!

 

[Wayfarer]

Just do it!

That's the plan!

 

[Wayfarer]

Please don't bank on that; that has not been my experience or the experience of any of my seafaring friends! I have bought and sold a few boats now, each bigger than the last. IF you buy used, and are prepared to put a lot of work in (and document all the work you do) then you might be able to get a substantial amount of your purchase price back. On my last boat (bought for $50,000) I had to spend about $9,000 and two week's full-time work just to get it up to scratch; it's a long familiar story, but the PO did little maintenance, and I did not then know enough to see this clearly—I really liked the boat when I made the offer on it! The asking price was $90,000.

I feel extremely lucky to have got $50,000 for it when I sold it (the Admiral hated it). if you do the maths (as we say here), and factoring in two week's full time work for two people, I lost about 20% when I sold her.

I do not mention this to put you off your plan, though: if you can, and to have a backup, rent your house for 12 months while you live aboard. If you like living aboard, sell the house; if you don't move back on land. Sounds like you're in the perfect position, to me.

Thanks Kit. You're absolutely right. I'm keenly aware of the fact that boats only depreciate in value. I know it won't be an investment. That's part of what's made it such a tough decision. Conventional wisdom says the smart people are using their money to make money, and this is a loser of a deal.

My thinking is that if I only own the boat for a year or two and decide to sell, I shouldn't lose too much. That's assuming the condition of the boat hasn't changed much for better or worse. If I spend 180k, and have to sell in a year, I may ask for the same amount, but I would never expect to get that much back. Hell, even if I get 120k back, that's more than my current house cost.

In the end, I've accepted that I'll be losing money in the process. I'll be making up for it with experience, hopefully. Also, I won't have any kids to will it to, so I may as well spend it while I can!

 

[Wayfarer]

I read your wall of text, and here are my thoughts, and our own plans.

We never envisioned living near the water, much less ON the water. I've wanted to move aboard for some time now, but my partner hasn't been so keen on the idea. Recently, he's decided that the full time RV life is getting boring and its time for a change of scenery.

Because we aren't sure what type of boat we want yet, and what features of the boat we must have, we didn't want to jump into a big mountain of debt. Instead we have a friend of ours who has been trying to sell her motor yacht for a few months and has been unsuccessful. We approached her with an opportunity to recoup some of her money spent trying to get the boat ready to sell. She's agreed and will rent us the boat for the next year. We will pay a monthly rent payment which includes the rent and insurance costs. We will also pay for the marina slip fees where we choose to keep it.

This arraignment will give us the opportunity to try out the liveaboard life style and get some experience to better know what we can live without, and what we definitely need, and if its something we even want to do long term.

This isn't an uncommon arraignment either, especially in large areas where boating is common. Perhaps you can search out a boat to rent in an area that you like before you jump in permanently? I know in areas like Miami, where real estate prices are sky high, a lot of people choose to live on the boats, and there's always boats for rent.

In the meantime, you can rent out your house for extra income, and that way if you end up not liking the liveaboard life in a year or two, you always have somewhere permanent to return to.

In our case we are going to let my mother in law live in our RV and make that payment. If we decide to buy a boat, we'll sell her the RV. If we decide we dont like living aboard, we'll find her another apartment close by and move back into our RV.

ETA: BTW... I'm 38 and still have all my hair, but my uncle who's only 6 years older than me was completely and totally bald by the age of 26.

That's a really interesting idea. I hadn't considered that as an option. I figured I'd try a couple of charters, to make sure I liked a boat before buying it, but renting would certainly be a much more exhaustive test. I'll have to look into that further. Thanks for that!

 

[dhays]

I got to be reasonably handy getting her around, and I spend my time at work maneuvering a 630 foot freighter, so I'm cautiously optimistic that I'll be able to handle a 36-42 footer. If that sounds cocky or arrogant, It wasn't meant to. The skills really don't translate directly from one to the other. I'm 100% certain that it will take me just as long to figure out a trawler as it did to get the hang of the freighter. Besides, I'll be mostly single handing the trawler, and not having a full crew of 17 to make up for my many shortcomings will definitely make things harder.

I am confident that with your experience, handling the boat will be the least of your concerns. You will pick it up must faster than someone like myself. Single handing isn’t a problem most of the time with just a bit of planning.

 

[Wayfarer]

I am confident that with your experience, handling the boat will be the least of your concerns. You will pick it up must faster than someone like myself. Single handing isn’t a problem most of the time with just a bit of planning.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dave. One mistake I learned from with my last boat, was letting too many people know what I do for a living. That got everyone's hopes up, and made sure I ALWAYS had an audience for docking maneuvers... No pressure, right? Lol. I think this time I'll tell people I'm the ship's cook.