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Old 06-26-2014, 07:32 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Insequent View Post
Pete
Make sure you read the appliance manual before buying. All of the domestic ones I saw had a statement to the effect 'not for marine use' in their installation/user manual, despite having auto flame cutouts. Those few little words will void your insurance..... That's why I ponied up the outrageous cost for the Eno at Whitworths.
That could be the killer Brian, although the reasons are probably not really any more valid with respect to a domestic gas cooker as to the commonly used ceramic AC electric hotplates. Ie not made for marine use, but perfectly fine, because in boats like ours, they are no more exposed to salt air than those in seaside cottages. However, I will check that out carefully, and actually, installing just the cooktop burners like you did, and getting the extra space for drawers, has its attractions.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:35 AM   #22
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Actually that does make sense Pete. $650. No modifications needed. No need for an inverter or genset, and no battery issues.

I was really fond of my old Clipper.

PS she now lives up in your part of the world, if you see her give her a wave, she's called 'Amadeus', the dingy was called 'Wolfgang'.
I've seen her Andy. I remember that name as it has a certain 'majesty' about it.
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Old 06-26-2014, 03:12 PM   #23
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Guys,
I got a new gas certificate with the installation of my new Whirlpool iXelium gas cook top and the original certificate was issued with the St George domestic gas cook top I installed when building.
Not sure on the not for marine use but have not seen it on any of the ones I have installed.
Once you have the gas certificate that's the insurance side tied up.

Most cruising power boats over about 50' will have domestic style galley hard ware including cook tops and ovens as marine stuff will just not cut the mustard when catering for 6 or more people. It's a size thing.
Most of the installations I have done or seen on larger boats/ships then go to commercial equipment that is the same as your local restaurant or hotel.
Go figure.

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Old 06-26-2014, 08:01 PM   #24
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I haven't come across any scuttlebutt about insurance companies targeting propane stoves in Oz.Am I missing something?
When I insured with Club Marine (Allianz) I had to provide a Certificate from a qualified person that the propane system was in safe working order. (Turned out it wasn`t, the "qualified" person used incompatible threads at the bottle connections and it later began to leak, I had to replace the fittings.)
I expect to have to provide a fresh certificate next year when the every 5 year insurance survey is due.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:53 AM   #25
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Propane Locker

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Originally Posted by Bay Pelican View Post
Ditto with respect to US insurance companies.

We have a conventional stove/oven set-up, propane tank in a locker on the upper deck, electric solenoid shutoff at the regulator followed by a pressure meter. Oven / stove has electric ignition with thermal couples but at times with have had to use a manual lighter.

Just don't see any significant risk here from the propane, the gasoline for the outboard and my electric wiring have more potential for accidental or hidden dangers.

Will concede that if the owner is not maintaining his/her system then anything can happen.
Marty,

Good thread, this.

We've got a propane cookstove with the propane tank in a compartment on the flying bridge. "In a compartment" is definitely not "in a propane locker," and we've been reading up on the safety hazards associated with an unsecured, uncontained propane tank. We're looking into retrofitting the tank into a propane locker. However, we are not sure where to keep it. Marty, you say that your propane locker is on the flying bridge. How does it vent or drain (not sure of the correct terminology). If we keep the propane locker on the flying bridge in the open air, it that sufficient, or do we need to somehow attach a hose so that it drains out a scupper or something? Obviously only need it to "drain" if there is a gas leak.

So much to learn!

Thanks in advance, and if there is a better thread for me to be reading, I would be delighted to be pointed that way.

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Old 04-28-2015, 11:26 AM   #26
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Michelle, It needs to be vented to an outside area...drain does not apply here. Although the liquid you hear swishing around in the tank is indeed a liquid, it becomes a gas once it reaches atmospheric pressure...hence nothing to "drain". For example...take a "Bic" lighter and depress the trigger without igniting it and the gas will hiss as it comes out the orifice yet it is in a liquid form in the "tank" inside the lighter.
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:29 PM   #27
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Rardion,

Got it, I was thinking "drain" because it is heavier than air so will "flow" downhill ... but if we just need to make sure it is vented to the great outdoors, it sounds like the flying bridge will work great (we have a lot of great outdoors up here!).

What part of Louisiana? I went to college in Lafayette and my husband and I were down for a visit last spring. Started in New Orleans, went down to Grand Isle, then through Thibodeau on the way to Lafayette to visit old profs. We loved the drive up the bayou past all the shrimp boats. It was a great time. Love your state.

Michelle Hale nee Bonnet
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Old 04-28-2015, 08:43 PM   #28
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Greetings,
Mr Pav. I think your use of the term "drain" was more correct that you suspect. Propane is indeed heavier than air and will flow downhill. Picture this: Your propane tank is in a container/locker with a vented top and a leak develops. The container/locker will fill up with propane and only exit when it reaches the vent on top so you have, in essence a "bucket" of propane. Potential kaboom with a nearby spark source and in the proper concentrations. Locate your "vent" as a drain at the bottom of the container.
Our propane locker has a fume detector installed. Cheap insurance IMO.
In a former life the facility I worked in had both propane and hydrogen detectors. Propane (heavier than air) at floor level, hydrogen (lighter than air) at ceiling level.
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Old 04-29-2015, 12:11 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pavane View Post
Rardion,

Got it, I was thinking "drain" because it is heavier than air so will "flow" downhill ... but if we just need to make sure it is vented to the great outdoors, it sounds like the flying bridge will work great (we have a lot of great outdoors up here!).

What part of Louisiana? I went to college in Lafayette and my husband and I were down for a visit last spring. Started in New Orleans, went down to Grand Isle, then through Thibodeau on the way to Lafayette to visit old profs. We loved the drive up the bayou past all the shrimp boats. It was a great time. Love your state.

Michelle Hale nee Bonnet
Michelle,

Our propane bottle was under the flying bridge dash when we bought our boat. Then one day I opened the closet in the Vee berth and the smell of propane about knocked me out. We had developed a leak and the propane went down the control chase from the upper helm into the closet which is also where the electrical panels are located. I immediately moved the bottle and made a new storage place.

The hole in the bottom of the seat is a little bigger than the tank so that works as the drain.

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Old 04-29-2015, 12:48 AM   #30
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My propane bottle is held within a fake stack. Any gas leakage will go overboard. Here with top of stack and bottle removed:


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Old 05-07-2015, 07:00 AM   #31
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"This just killed any more thoughts on replacing my seaward princess electric with a propane model, the $100.00 yearly increase in insurance was the 1st death blow."

So you usually cook less than 10 -15 hours a year?

$100. in noisemaker expenses is 10-15 hours.
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Old 05-07-2015, 07:04 AM   #32
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Greetings,
Mr. mp. I see you also have a fume detector mounted in your propane "locker". Double protection.
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
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Marty,

If we keep the propane locker on the flying bridge in the open air, it that sufficient, or do we need to somehow attach a hose so that it drains out a scupper or something? Obviously only need it to "drain" if there is a gas leak.
Here's the deal. Propane (unlike natural gas) is heavier than air. So it will "flow" downhill. When positioning a propane locker it is not just a matter of having an opening at the bottom for propane from a leak to flow out of.

You have to envision that invisible propane as a fluid, like water. Where will it go when it comes out of the drain or vent?

If you position a propane locker in such a place that propane coming out of the drain or vent can, for example, flow down a flying bridge deck, over the edge, and then in through an open window or a vent or a door or hatch to get inside the boat, you've got a major problem.

Because if "loose" propane can get inside a boat it will find it's way to the lowest point, which is the bilge. It will collect there until such time as a fresh water pump kicks off, or a starter motor, or a bilge pump or whatever, none of which on a diesel boat have to spark-proof, and your boat will immediately reduce itself to the raw materials it was made of.

So whenever you think about positioning a propane locker, or a propane bottle or bottles, think about where water would go if it escaped the bottle. Because wherever it will go, propane will go.
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Old 05-07-2015, 08:35 PM   #34
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There are distance suggestions from ABYC for distances to openings within the hull such as windows, doors and hatches.
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