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Old 07-13-2016, 06:48 PM   #21
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Advice is predicated on information supplied. 2300 watts of solar is new information > different advice.
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Old 07-13-2016, 08:08 PM   #22
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Simi,
from what you have said with no water maker you will have to go in and get water at some stage.
The best investment for any long term cruiser who carries plenty of fuel is a water maker and a no frills 60 lt / hr model can be purchased for 5k or 6 k for 120 lt/hr.
Then run the gen set, heat water and make water at the same time, you will be so glad you did.
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Old 07-14-2016, 12:34 AM   #23
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Simi,
from what you have said with no water maker you will have to go in and get water at some stage.
I will also need to go in and get fuel as well.
Once a month pull into a fuel dock tip in a few hundred litres of fuel and top off the water while there was my way of thinking.

We lived aboard our previous boat for several months at a time and only had 200L water tanks and never needed a desal.
4500 litres of water on this one should seem quite luxurious and will keep us going for quite some time I imagine.

But, we'll see how it goes.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:43 AM   #24
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Bay Pelican has a water maker and 1200 liter tanks. We use our washing machine daily using perhaps 50 liters for the wash. At that we seldom go through more than 200 liters a day. A 4500 liter capacity would be more than sufficient for extended anchoring.

The only difficulty I see is that to refill 4,500 liters would require you to take a slip for the night or at least a few hours. A fuel dock would not be happy with you tying up the dock for the time it would take to refill the tanks with a normal water hose. In North America and the Caribbean the water hoses have 1/4 or less of the flow rate of the fuel hoses.
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Old 07-14-2016, 05:45 AM   #25
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"Once a month pull into a fuel dock tip in a few hundred litres of fuel and top off the water while there was my way of thinking."

Where do you store to dump a months worth of garbage?

***

If you have an abundance of solar , with a safe switching setup you can use any excess DC fed directly to the HW heater element.

Sure its slow , but if there is juice to burn , might as well use it.

Underway the marine style heat exchanger with either the propulsion engine or noisemaker works fine.

The solar folks sell heat exchangers that install in the over pressure relief setup on a std home style heater .

Using the waste heat from a small noisemaker is a good way to reduce its load so shorter run times can be had.
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:13 PM   #26
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Quote:
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Where do you store to dump a months worth of garbage?
Reality is, if near civilisation, every time you go ashore in the dinghy you take some rubbish.

On the last boat we got rid of most packaging before storing stuff on board.
We could go a month at a time in remote locations and still only have a small amount of rubbish to get rid of.

Fresh fruit and veg, rice, fresh fish, bugger all rubbish there.
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Old 07-14-2016, 02:24 PM   #27
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We use our washing machine daily using perhaps 50 liters for the wash.
Really?
We only use ours once a week when on land.
Same size machine on the boat.

Quote:
The only difficulty I see is that to refill 4,500 liters would require you to take a slip for the night or at least a few hours.
Good point.
Apparently 20 litres/minute is average for a tap here making 50 minutes/1000l.

Maybe if we are the last fill of the day or a quiet day midweek they'll let us stay a bit longer.
Midweek in the past has worked before for an hour or two with no issue.

I can certainly see how it could be an issue on the weekends
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:49 AM   #28
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With a large boat , there is the ability to have space for a pure solar HW heater.

These are very simple to create m a box painted black inside with 50 ft of soft 3/4 refrigeration copper tubing .

A glass cover works, but if sized to use a replacement double glass sliding door insert , the efficiency goes up.

Solar HW gets really expensive and complex IF they must be used in climates that freeze overnight.

But for a southern warm lifestyle , the only purchase is an aquastat that senses the water temp in the tubing , and a tiny DC pump to circ it into the existing on board HW tank.

The circ pump has a very long life as its sealed , the drive from motor to pump is magnetic , no shaft seals.

IF you have the room this would be a cheap simple way to make unlimited HW that is basically seamless.

Till it freezes.
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Old 07-15-2016, 05:37 PM   #29
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With a large boat , there is the ability to have space for a pure solar HW heater.

.
Space yes
Extra weight wanted aloft no.

Its either 180kg of water and system Vs same weight for 9 x 250w panels
I cant really have both.
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Old 07-15-2016, 11:38 PM   #30
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We have two water heaters, 8 gallon marine electric, and a Wabosto diesel which is part of heating system. The Wabosto can heat the water only, during the warm months. However in the warmer months the electric is used and is on a timer that heats one hour twice a day. The domestic water pump is a low psi so water is saved conserved. We very seldom use the on board washer, so land is used.

Water tanks hold 400 gallons that can last 2+ weeks. We have a microphor sanitation that is like a small septic tank that uses no chemical or electric. When at the dock we use the holding tank and get pumped out once a week. When away from the dock and when can not get pumped the Microphore is used. So we could go 2+ weeks away from a dock.
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Old 07-16-2016, 05:33 AM   #31
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"Space yes
Extra weight wanted aloft no."

The box to hold the tubing is light weight and most of the added weight is whatever 50 ft of copper tubing weigh filled with water, plus a piece of glass.

50 lbs aloft to have unlimited hot water (when the sun shines) would not seem destableizing.
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Old 07-16-2016, 06:17 AM   #32
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50ft of tube would only give a few litres of water yes?
I doubt it works as instant hot water so what happens when the few litres of hot water is out of the tubes?
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Old 07-16-2016, 12:10 PM   #33
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Logic would suggest that you're circulating your solar warmed water through your water heater, so you then have a water heater full of warm water.

These guys provide kits and a pretty good explanation on how it works
Heliatos Solar

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simi 60 View Post
50ft of tube would only give a few litres of water yes?
I doubt it works as instant hot water so what happens when the few litres of hot water is out of the tubes?
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Old 07-16-2016, 12:54 PM   #34
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"50ft of tube would only give a few litres of water yes?"

Which is then pumped into your existing HW heater , all day long.

The price is the small DC pump and the aquastat to turn the circulation on.

While one can not create a home brew PV systen ,home making solar hot water has at least a 75 year history in southern US states.

CBS , cruse but simple actually does work.
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Old 07-16-2016, 03:36 PM   #35
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OK, I see we are talking a different type of solar to what I was thinking on the roof.
I was thinking of these types which, would be to much weight aloft.



Seeing as we are talking about just the panel on the roof with remote storage tank, am I right that you were thinking I could use the existing insulated copper tank from the existing HWS for storage?

The first hurdle I see there is that tank is down near the engine room and the roof where the panels would go is near 30ft above it so a fair bit of pump would be required to circulate that water.
A quick google would suggest that the pump alone would be well on the way to the cost of a 45 litre Force10 HWS, which, as it would replace the existing large domestic HWS would be a relatively simple install (water circuit and power is already there) and would free up storage space.

The second is, based on my household solar HWS experience where I turned off the electric heating side of it, what happens when its raining for more than a few days?
Without an alternative heat source it was back to cold showers.

FAQ on the Heliatos site says "What happens at Dark?
First you use the water that was heated by the sun during the day. Then if you need more hot water then your gas or electric will kick in."

So I still need electric or gas in addition to
the solar for the times when its raining which has been several days where I am now and cold as well.
Based on that I feel I am better off going electric and an extra $300 for 500 watts of solar panels in the space that the solar hot water panels would have gone.
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Old 07-17-2016, 07:11 AM   #36
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The solar setup is an ADDITION to the existing insulated copper tank from the existing HWS for storage

It just stops the need for a noisemaker to make HW, on nice days

Parts are not that expensive , here is one circ pump.

https://www.amazon.com/GPM-Solar-Hot.../dp/B005EU7ONM

OF course all solar devices have limits to output depending on size.

If you require 100G of HW a day it wont work.

For non mental health showers and dish washing or 10-maybe 15G of hot water a day ,
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Old 07-17-2016, 10:23 AM   #37
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If the engine heats the water it will be very hot. therefore your showers will use mostly cold water until it cools. Just be careful of the how water. The handle shut off valves allow hot water to backflow a bit into the cold pipes and when first opened again the water may be too hot.
With a5 or 6 gallon hot water tank we got two days of showers before needing more heat.

The advice above to try what you have first is spot on.
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Old 07-17-2016, 02:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
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Parts are not that expensive , here is one circ pump.

https://www.amazon.com/GPM-Solar-Hot.../dp/B005EU7ONM

,
Thats no good
Only pumps a 9ft head
I would need one that does 30ft at least and they are quite expensive.

That, in addition to the panels linked to earlier will cost a lot more than a 45 litre electric.
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Old 07-17-2016, 02:46 PM   #39
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If the engine heats the water it will be very hot.
If the engine only runs once a week and their is no calorifier attached the water wont be hot at all.
Quote:
The advice above to try what you have first is spot on.
And I did say I would try that but given the size t and age of the existing unit I'd better start preparing for the replacement.
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Old 07-17-2016, 04:40 PM   #40
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Thats no good
Only pumps a 9ft head
I would need one that does 30ft at least and they are quite expensive.

That, in addition to the panels linked to earlier will cost a lot more than a 45 litre electric.
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