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Old 02-16-2014, 07:41 AM   #41
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A plate heat exchanger and an old fashioned radiator are completely different and that is how and why plate heat exchangers are so efficient and have replaced shell and tube units in so many applications.

They have all but completely replaced shell and tube coolers on most larger diesels and I notice they are becoming very common on the smaller engines as well.

Notice the big rectangular thing with MTU written on it? That is the end plate of a plate heat exchanger.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:26 AM   #42
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The man asked what time it was, he didn't ask how to build a watch.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:57 AM   #43
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The man asked what time it was, he didn't ask how to build a watch.
I personally like the cutaway that shows how the watch functions

HOLLYWOOD
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:08 AM   #44
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I would say the thread is still on track in that it is furthering possibilities beyond just "replacement units" and explaining/showing how these units/parts can be more efficient of how used within a hot water system.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:34 AM   #45
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The nice thing about plate and frame units for industry is there is no size limitation so it can be as big as a bus if needed. The most interesting one I worked with heated/cooled about 1,000 gpm of warm acidic solution so it was very pricey utilizing 904L SS as I recall.

As with the small P&F units Rickb has so kindly posted a picture of here, clean solutions are required or they will plug up. Which means don't let your coolant get too fouled.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:32 AM   #46
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As with the small P&F units Rickb has so kindly posted a picture of here, clean solutions are required or they will plug up. Which means don't let your coolant get too fouled.
You'd be surprised how dirty of s fluid can run through them.

It's a fine line to maximize your velocity between plates to increase wall shear stress to reduce fouling and produce high heat transfer coefficients, but keep them low enough to not cause wear due to entrained particles.

I tend to keep a 10% fouling margin and put in strainers if I find the particle size is 50% or more than the plate gap.

Of course the size and hours on a recreational boat, this doesn't matter much.

I do think the fusion and brazed plate technology has gotten to the point where we will see them used in more and more energy saving consumer and domestic applications.
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Old 02-16-2014, 01:14 PM   #47
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The man asked what time it was, he didn't ask how to build a watch.
The man said:

"The unit you refer to is finned, therefore designed to dissipate heat, not collect it and is most likely too small... by the time you build a heat trap box around it and add a pump or engineer and build a heat siphon ... well, like I said... you don't."

I simply showed the readership that the man doesn't know what he is talking about and his advice should not be considered by those who believe that "surveyors" necessarily know their bowsprit from their sternpost.

I use a small plate cooler with a thermo regulating valve to transfer heat from my Hurricane heater circulation loop to the potable water system. It works well, it is not an experimental system, and the heat source could just as well be the jacket water of any diesel engine.
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Old 02-16-2014, 09:46 PM   #48
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DArn it, two more projects to ponder.
-- The exchanger can be used to heat the H.W. tank and the pump to force circultaion of the fresh water so it heats.

-- The pump can be used to force circulation through my diesel stove heat coil and then to heat the fwd. cabin. I'd looked periodically for some thing like this but never thought of a solar source.

T.Y. psneeld and RickB

Poorly worded but I'm lazy tonight
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:22 AM   #49
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DArn it, two more projects to ponder.
-- The exchanger can be used to heat the H.W. tank and the pump to force circultaion of the fresh water so it heats.

-- The pump can be used to force circulation through my diesel stove heat coil and then to heat the fwd. cabin. I'd looked periodically for some thing like this but never thought of a solar source.

T.Y. psneeld and RickB

Poorly worded but I'm lazy tonight
That's OK...much of the time I read these before the second cup of coffee or during happy hour so some posters make sense at all......making a few mistakes is small potatoes....
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:32 PM   #50
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A plate heat exchanger and an old fashioned radiator are completely different and that is how and why plate heat exchangers are so efficient and have replaced shell and tube units in so many applications.

They have all but completely replaced shell and tube coolers on most larger diesels and I notice they are becoming very common on the smaller engines as well.

Notice the big rectangular thing with MTU written on it? That is the end plate of a plate heat exchanger.
mtu means more trouble underway,
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:41 PM   #51
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mtu means more trouble underway,
Good one.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:00 AM   #52
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The long term problem with all these setups (excepr the Rheem) is the storage tank has a very finite life.

So however it gets warmed , the HW tank needs replacing on an expensive ,constant basis.

UGH!
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:44 AM   #53
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Yeah, really expensive ... about the price of 5 or 10 gallons of diesel a year by the time it fails.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:13 AM   #54
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So however it gets warmed , the HW tank needs replacing on an expensive ,constant basis. UGH!
The OPs tank is likely 24 years old. For the standard home hot water heater 10 to 15 years is the norm so it appears the OPs boat tank did pretty good.

To me the takeaway here is when buying an older vessel, especially one with an unlined Al tank, be sure you can remove the HW heater without having to tear the boat apart.
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Old 03-06-2014, 02:05 PM   #55
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Another one "Bites the Rust"

I replaced my prehistoric hot water heater a couple of days ago. I was amazed at how bad of a condition it was in. Fortunately, there was a large spill pan under it which drained into the bilge so there wasn’t any damage to boat. The new one went in pretty easily. We capped off the exchanger lines.

My neighbor suggested I turn it into a thermobaric weapon (fuel/air bomb) and address it to Mr. Putin (oh-oh). KJ




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Old 03-06-2014, 04:12 PM   #56
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Hi kj
What brand did you replace it with ?
m
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Old 03-06-2014, 10:55 PM   #57
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It's a Whirlpool from Lowe's. Works great. Put in a new fridge last month. Probably install a new inverter next month.

Don't ya love winter projects? KJ
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Old 03-07-2014, 07:36 AM   #58
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Quote:
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I replaced my prehistoric hot water heater a couple of days ago. I was amazed at how bad of a condition it was in. Fortunately, there was a large spill pan under it which drained into the bilge so there wasn’t any damage to boat. The new one went in pretty easily. We capped off the exchanger lines.

My neighbor suggested I turn it into a thermobaric weapon (fuel/air bomb) and address it to Mr. Putin (oh-oh). KJ




I'll see you…and raise you one...as mine, believe it or not, was still working and not leaking, just slow to heat because of grot-filled pipes to and from the cylinder. This affected the new one until I disconnected them and flushed them out - now we get such great hot water, I would never bother with any other method. (Thinking of the other 'hot water on demand' thread.)
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:44 AM   #59
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The pump can be used to force circulation through my diesel stove heat coil and then to heat the fwd. cabin.

Most ranges only have one or two coils in the fire.

The Antartic has 7 turns in the fire , and does work to heat a modest , insulated cabin .

The Dickinson units are only 16,000 btu at full blast , so the cabin has to be good enough to be heated with 3000 -5000 BTU , check the cold weather cabin heat requirement with a small electric heater.
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