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Old 09-20-2019, 11:19 AM   #81
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After much deliberation (I started this thread back in April!), my wife and I settled in on this:

1. Buy a less expensive boat which won't require much of a loan. We're buying a 1991 Bayliner 4588 and moving aboard.
2. Sell the house, and buy a smaller house that makes more sense as a rental.

Now, as far as I know, the Bayliner isn't a "trawler." It's a "motor yacht." So once I sell our Tollycraft 40', I'll no longer be a Trawler owner? Will I still be welcome here?

We were in similar situation when we retired a few years back... So we sold our home in the south sound, bought a home in AZ and during the summer planned to live aboard our 48 Defever which we kept in Gig Harbor.... This worked for a couple of years while the Defever is a great cruising boat it didn't work well as a live aboard for us particularly my wife. We sold the Defever and looked at the different ways we could still spend our summers in the PNW. We looked at RVs, buying a condo or just renting. After a lot of deliberation, we bought a 4588 Bayliner, its far more comfortable then the Defever it has more living space and most importantly my wife is happy with the boat.... Good luck I hope the boat works for you as well as does for us..
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Old 09-20-2019, 11:36 AM   #82
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There's no "one choice fits all" in these decisions.


However, I could argue to be sure the choices fit ones financial situation. The dirt home generally keeps up with inflation, so it gives one an easy financial situation to trade, move up or down in houses.


The boat is a depreciating asset and as it ages, it becomes worth less. One could get into a spot where upgrading the boat, even with a smaller one, requires a lot more dollars.


But, both are expenses.... none are investments. If one can afford it, get whatever you want. I could make a strong argument against financing a toy, like a boat, unless you're SURE that you will have enough dollars to live on without stretching your budget.... or better yet, coming into enough dollars later on to pay off the debt.



While I love to live on the boat, I'd probably never make a good full timer. Like my dirt. Also, I'm not a minimalist. Way too much junk to take care of. Have a shed full, a house full and a hangar full and would miss it if I didn't have it. I've got tools and toys I'll never need and love every one of them.


Now, I'm going shopping for more junk.....
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Old 09-20-2019, 04:39 PM   #83
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There's no "one choice fits all" in these decisions.


However, I could argue to be sure the choices fit ones financial situation. The dirt home generally keeps up with inflation, so it gives one an easy financial situation to trade, move up or down in houses.


The boat is a depreciating asset and as it ages, it becomes worth less. One could get into a spot where upgrading the boat, even with a smaller one, requires a lot more dollars.


But, both are expenses.... none are investments. If one can afford it, get whatever you want. I could make a strong argument against financing a toy, like a boat, unless you're SURE that you will have enough dollars to live on without stretching your budget.... or better yet, coming into enough dollars later on to pay off the debt.



While I love to live on the boat, I'd probably never make a good full timer. Like my dirt. Also, I'm not a minimalist. Way too much junk to take care of. Have a shed full, a house full and a hangar full and would miss it if I didn't have it. I've got tools and toys I'll never need and love every one of them.


Now, I'm going shopping for more junk.....
Wifey B: I know it surprises no one that I am not a minimalist. However, boating and cruising has increased my need for my land house.

Why? Because I find local crafts and art and things that reflect areas I visit and have to have space at home to store and display it all. Some use photos, I use art. It's a bit like a scrapbook, other than the fact it's a room.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:13 PM   #84
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There's no "one choice fits all" in these decisions.


However, I could argue to be sure the choices fit ones financial situation. The dirt home generally keeps up with inflation, so it gives one an easy financial situation to trade, move up or down in houses.


The boat is a depreciating asset and as it ages, it becomes worth less. One could get into a spot where upgrading the boat, even with a smaller one, requires a lot more dollars.


But, both are expenses.... none are investments. If one can afford it, get whatever you want. I could make a strong argument against financing a toy, like a boat, unless you're SURE that you will have enough dollars to live on without stretching your budget.... or better yet, coming into enough dollars later on to pay off the debt.



While I love to live on the boat, I'd probably never make a good full timer. Like my dirt. Also, I'm not a minimalist. Way too much junk to take care of. Have a shed full, a house full and a hangar full and would miss it if I didn't have it. I've got tools and toys I'll never need and love every one of them.


Now, I'm going shopping for more junk.....
I agree strongly with most of your post except for a desire to live on a boat. Here it becomes a personal choice of course; for me our boat is in a toy category. Our house has 4 bedrooms, one used as an office and an other for exercise equipment all stuffed into 2500 sq ft living space to accommodate 2 people. Small by our neighbor’s standards. I would really be forced to change my life style to live on a boat. Yes there are boats large enough to live on comfortably but I could not afford dockage never mind the other big boat expenses.
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Old 09-20-2019, 06:15 PM   #85
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Wifey B: I know it surprises no one that I am not a minimalist. However, boating and cruising has increased my need for my land house.

Why? Because I find local crafts and art and things that reflect areas I visit and have to have space at home to store and display it all. Some use photos, I use art. It's a bit like a scrapbook, other than the fact it's a room.

Good point, I'll bet you have a lot of nooks and crannies in the house for your stuff... The crafts stuff sounds neat! And, yes that can take space.....
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Old 09-21-2019, 05:04 PM   #86
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Wifey B: If all our family and friends were retired, we could more easily live on a boat or boats. However, many of them work. They occasionally join us cruising but that's not enough. We look forward to times at home when they all come over. Right now the seas are 8' at 7 seconds so no boating being done here. We have a small group here today, but tomorrow we'll have 25 or so over for a cookout. I don't even know how many.
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Old 09-21-2019, 06:16 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by jovial_cynic View Post
After much deliberation (I started this thread back in April!), my wife and I settled in on this:

1. Buy a less expensive boat which won't require much of a loan. We're buying a 1991 Bayliner 4588 and moving aboard.
2. Sell the house, and buy a smaller house that makes more sense as a rental.

Now, as far as I know, the Bayliner isn't a "trawler." It's a "motor yacht." So once I sell our Tollycraft 40', I'll no longer be a Trawler owner? Will I still be welcome here?
That sounds like a workable plan. Technomadia on youtube have a nice boat same or similar to the BL 4588. You may want to check them out. They have made some pretty good upgrades that you may be interested in.


We don't don't usually discriminate against boat brand or type. It's ok to own a plastic fantastic go-fast boat, just have to run her slow so everyone thinks you're a trawler yacht.
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Old 09-23-2019, 08:12 PM   #88
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Awesome. I'm glad I get to stick around!

For folks recommending the Technomadia videos, thanks! I have watched a few of them. Lots of good info.

My wife and I run a podcast (www.dropanchorpodcast.com) where we have been talking through this whole decision-making process. I think we have more fun making the audio show than doing any boat stuff!
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Old 09-24-2019, 06:59 AM   #89
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Awesome. I'm glad I get to stick around!

For folks recommending the Technomadia videos, thanks! I have watched a few of them. Lots of good info.

My wife and I run a podcast (www.dropanchorpodcast.com) where we have been talking through this whole decision-making process. I think we have more fun making the audio show than doing any boat stuff!



You should keep doing those and come up with a way to monetize them to help pay for the boat. It seems to be the way the youngsters are doing it these days, says the 42-year-old respondant.
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Old 10-28-2019, 05:04 PM   #90
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You should keep doing those and come up with a way to monetize them to help pay for the boat. It seems to be the way the youngsters are doing it these days, says the 42-year-old respondant.
Interestingly, ever since I posted a link to the podcast on the facebook Trawler and Liveaboard group, I've had a huge spike in listeners in the "Male, 50+ and older" group. Makes sense!
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Old 10-28-2019, 06:13 PM   #91
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Re: debt for a living situation...much of my current net worth is in tax-deferred accounts, the largest one I will be eligible to withdraw from next year (one can throw rocks at that investment strategy and if I had it to do over again I’d have “Roth’d” more of my savings but it’s water under the bridge at this point.) I’m fairly certain that if I did the math it would be break even or better to mortgage a >$100k boat and pay the installments than to withdraw the full value to pay “cash” and then deal with the resulting tax consequences. Maybe soon I’ll actually do the math to confirm that’s true for me. I’ve certainly known many other examples when it’s been true for others.

Just an example of how debt is not always bad.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:40 PM   #92
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Gees, I have a different outlook on debt. Yes certainly if the purpose of debt is to purchase assets that produce cash or at least the purchase will appreciate. Never for anything that does not produce cash plus having a depreciation factor. Of course when I was younger my outlook was very different.
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Old 10-28-2019, 08:43 PM   #93
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If keeping the money for something else will earn you more than the interest rate on the loan, then the debt comes out as the cheaper option in the long run.
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Old 10-29-2019, 07:07 AM   #94
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LOL, I think we are all smart enough to realize, if you want to make money, don't go boating. If you are trying to reduce your annual fuel costs, stay tied to the dock longer and when you do leave the dock, don't go WOT.
IMO, boating will have a negative impact on your net worth/estate.
Consider your boat like a car. Go fast, costs more in fuel. Your car depreciates, your boat depreciates.
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Old 10-29-2019, 09:26 AM   #95
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LOL, I think we are all smart enough to realize, if you want to make money, don't go boating. If you are trying to reduce your annual fuel costs, stay tied to the dock longer and when you do leave the dock, don't go WOT.
IMO, boating will have a negative impact on your net worth/estate.
Consider your boat like a car. Go fast, costs more in fuel. Your car depreciates, your boat depreciates.


One can go boating without being in debt. And one can purchase and use a car also without being in debt. To each his own.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:16 AM   #96
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One can go boating without being in debt. And one can purchase and use a car also without being in debt. To each his own.
Then we do agree both your boat and your car will depreciate? And the faster go, the more fuel we will burn?

Per your other point, that is true. An example, until things change, if your boat qualifies as a second home, you can write off the interest.
If you are paying 3% for the boat loan and earn 2% on other assets, you are effetely getting the boat loan for 1%.
If you sell stock, you will have to pay at least 15% on your capital gains.... It is not a choice for me. I'll just stick with my 1% boat loan.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:27 AM   #97
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I am 40. So I have some time, but ordinarily, the financial advisors would say that I should use this time to aggressively invest, what with my 20+ year time horizon before retirement.

Man, this is a hard choice. My wife and I have successfully bounced from house to house, and we've been very blessed - we've come out ahead every time. The fact that I'm basically planning to come out behind is a hard pill to swallow.

Maybe a better way to look at it is to just consider how much we are willing to spend to enjoy the life we want to live.
Words from my Grandpa Max
Fun cost $$, better pay up while you can!
But don't buy so much that cant afford some fun later in life!
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:41 AM   #98
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Then we do agree both your boat and your car will depreciate? And the faster go, the more fuel we will burn?

Per your other point, that is true. An example, until things change, if your boat qualifies as a second home, you can write off the interest.
If you are paying 3% for the boat loan and earn 2% on other assets, you are effetely getting the boat loan for 1%.
If you sell stock, you will have to pay at least 15% on your capital gains.... It is not a choice for me. I'll just stick with my 1% boat loan.
Just a comment about my above post on debt. When I said that I never purchase anything that doesnít make cash, I was referring to taking on debt. Most things in life depreciate, cars for one as you mentioned and most own one. But they do not need to be purchased with debt. Most homes although not all increase in value over time not only that but you need to live someplace so why not own a home....even if itís a boat.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:53 AM   #99
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Then we do agree both your boat and your car will depreciate? And the faster go, the more fuel we will burn?

Per your other point, that is true. An example, until things change, if your boat qualifies as a second home, you can write off the interest.
If you are paying 3% for the boat loan and earn 2% on other assets, you are effetely getting the boat loan for 1%.
If you sell stock, you will have to pay at least 15% on your capital gains.... It is not a choice for me. I'll just stick with my 1% boat loan.
"Then we do agree both your boat and your car will depreciate?"
Not in all cases.

"And the faster go, the more fuel we will burn?"
Yes - and the more fuel per mile or per hour as well as in general.

"Per your other point, that is true. An example, until things change, if your boat qualifies as a second home, you can write off the interest.
If you are paying 3% for the boat loan and earn 2% on other assets, you are effetely getting the boat loan for 1%.
If you sell stock, you will have to pay at least 15% on your capital gains.... It is not a choice for me. I'll just stick with my 1% boat loan."

Yes - precisely , or a first home for some.
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:55 AM   #100
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Just a comment about my above post on debt. When I said that I never purchase anything that doesnít make cash, I was referring to taking on debt. Most things in life depreciate, cars for one as you mentioned and most own one. But they do not need to be purchased with debt. Most homes although not all increase in value over time not only that but you need to live someplace so why not own a home....even if itís a boat.
I am fortunate. Until the Feds decide boats cannot be considered a second or maybe a primary residence, I shall continue to write off the interest on my boat loan. It is the only debt for which I can write off the interest.
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