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Greetings,
Mr./Ms. ds. Thank you. Did I, or anyone else mention that EVERY boat is a compromise?

I tend to disagree with Mr. OD to some extent. The $100K boats ARE out there but it will take some looking.

I DO agree fully about NOT getting a project boat. You will have more than enough to do with a boat that is in "good shape". There is the undeniable, inevitable "nesting" and upgrading costs so a slush fund is a given.


Just saw your post (#30). HAH! "Ready to go" or "top condition" CAN be akin to a car that's only been driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday. NOT necessarily hiding anything but condition is more of a judgement call.

I'm currently driving a 19 year old Jeep that I think is in great shape (everything works) BUT she's kinda ugly (rusty).

What you will eventually need is a marine surveyor. Some are more A1 than others and finding a good one will be part of your search. Even the best surveyors do miss items that need attention. The better the surveyor the fewer "surprises", for the most part.
 
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RT Firefly said:
Greetings,
Mr./Ms. ds. Thank you. Did I, or anyone else mention that EVERY boat is a compromise?

I tend to disagree with Mr. OD to some extent. The $100K boats ARE out there but it will take some looking.

I DO agree fully about NOT getting a project boat. You will have more than enough to do with a boat that is in "good shape". There is the undeniable, inevitable "nesting" and upgrading costs so a slush fund is a given.
Click to expand...

100%:thumb:
 
Remember, you are planning both blue and green water cruising voyages so you want the best boat possible. You are putting your life, your wife's life and your daughter's life into the safety of your chosen boat.
Take your time and visit as many boats that interest you. If nothing else, you will see other possibilities and decide which upgrades you want to do now and which upgrades you can do in the years to come.
Also understand, you are creating your boat for the next owner too. LOL
 
Greetings,
Mr.OD. "Unless you are VERY lucky, the $100K will be a nice DOWN PAYMENT for 40ft+ boat" VERY, VERY valid statement for an offshore capable vessel!
 
I think catamarans are a good choice. But they can be expensive. They are good in a seaway(although weird motion). THey are fuel efficient. They are shallow draft. And lots of space in a boat of shorter length. Yes there is the issue of moorage while cruising but you can ask current cat owners and they say it is not an issue. Just something that needs to be considered when looking ahead to tying up somewhere. One thing we will say over and over again. Just make sure your head is screwed on straight. THere is a problem sometimes that people have this "dream". The closer that dream is to reality is directly related to the success of achieving that dream. There are marinas full of boats that belong to dreamers that were too far away from reality. IOW keep your mind open and listen like you are doing right now. I think you are doing it right.

AN example is a guy I met last night. He is determined to get an aluminum boat. That narrows his search extremely. His reasoning is because he wants to put keel cooling on it. He has reasons for keel cooling but they are nothing more than we know already know. He lives 500 miles from the coast and wants to ship the boat to his home...have his son rig/weld up keep coolers and then ship the boat back.....ALL TO SAVE MONEY on a $50k boat!!!!! I can tell you right now, his dream is very far from reality. I wish him luck but he has already backed himslef into a corner if he proceeds with his plans.

So keep it real. Go with tried and true methods of doing things unless you are an expert in a field(ie a shipwright that buys a wooden boat). And like you already know....make absolutely sure that your wife is in on the decisions. Make sure you are both crazy about the boat for the right reasons!!!

Good luck amigo. And may your reality become your dream!!!....see what I did there!!!
 
dsmangan said:
How would I know for sure that there are no big issues with the boat (no matter what the cost)? There has to be inspectors that are A1 certified, correct?
Click to expand...


A typical process is that you (or perhaps your representative, like a buyer's broker) views a candidate boat, and postulates it's worth a closer look. If that wasn't you, you're next (with wifey).

If it still looks promising, you might make an offer subject to inspections, surveys, sea trial... there's some haggling back-and-forth... and if something is eventually accepted by the seller, you trot out some earnest money, usually held in escrow.

Then a marine surveyor, and often a mechanical surveyor (engine guy), inspects the boat to death (or sometimes take 10 minutes and say it's not worth going further), write you a 40-page report (mostly pro-forma but highlighting findings)...

Then you maybe dicker some more on price based on survey findings, or maybe the seller fixes some stuff...

And eventually the seller gets your money and you get the boat. Very much a generalization, of course...

Marine surveyors are usually members of sanctioning orgs, maybe in some States actually licensed. Ideal mechanical surveyors are usually certified by the engine manufacturer.

There's a thread on it around here; can't remember the name -- survey's 101 or some such -- but maybe somebody has already highlighted it...

-Chris
 
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Good points by everyone.

Another thing is to enjoy the journey of deciding what you want to do together as you retire, when to do it, how to do it, where to do it, with what. In some ways it doesn't actually matter what you buy or do, as long as you're enjoying the time planning and moving towards an outcome.

We're 4-5 year out from fulltime cruiser, but have started in what some consider the worst way: purchasing a boat in another hemisphere, not quite 180 degrees around the world. For us the journey of planning and choosing, looking and evaluating, then purchasing has been fantastic. Next will be getting aboard for a holiday or moving her slightly closer to areas we can visit more easily.

But to get to this point, the two of us have spent a year together closely planning our future, and that is worth it's weight in gold whatever happens.

Will we have the same boat in 4-5 years time? Probably. Will we know more about our journey by the time we get there - definitely. Will we have spent money? I have said it's a boat, haven't I? :thumb:
 
Can you tell us what you and your wife are doing boating-wise? Have you ever been multi-day cruising together? These courses you are taking, are they on salt water, and are you taking them together?

I am raising these and other flags because in the course of our years on the water as liveaboards and full time cruisers, we witnessed so many expensive and tragically unnecessary failures of cruising dreams and worse yet of marriages and relationships. I apologize for jumping to conclusions, as interpreting incomplete information on the internet is fraught with the potential for error, but I've read nothing but "red flag" issues from the OP so far.
 
Buyer beware... Every boat listed on the internet is "turn key ready" Just get in and go. Also, the pictures and specs are always the most current. They never use the same pictures that were used the last time the boat was sold, when the boat was kept under cover, and now it's been out in the elements the past 7 years.

I agree that $100,000 would be a good down payment. I think you will find as you get further into the process that it's going to cost much more to be able to do go the places you want to go.
 
I spent some time in Sierra Vista. A couple of times. Nice area. Far from the water, though.

You have a great plan. Definitely doable. Wise, that you have chosen diesel. Much better suited to the plans you have. Also, good to go through the Captain's course for the knowledge. I'm going through it now, too, and am surprised by the things many boaters (including myself) are responsible for knowing and don't.

Catamarans are nice. Roomy and less rolly at anchor than many monohulls. However, as others have pointed out, they're expensive and one that is not a project boat may be beyond your price range. There are a lot of roomy monohulls that could be in your budget, though. Most likely, they'll need updated electronics (seems to be the number one upgrade on older boats).

Keep us posted on your search. If you find a couple of candidate boats, post the links and we'll help you sort through them. Please be aware that means people are likely to poke holes in some of the candidates you list. ;)

John
 
caltexflanc said:
I've given versions of the following soliloquy here many times.

Don't start with the boat, start with actual boating.

Do some charters in various locations, and taking the on-the-water courses most charter companies will provide (for instance Northwest Explorations in Bellingham, WA , Southwest Florida Yachts or Chitwood Charters in FL or Club Nautique in the SF Bay Area).

First of all, this gets you out there on the water, now.

Secondly it helps you determine whether the cruising life really is for you and yours.

Third, it is invaluable in putting together your personal specs and standards for what you folks want in a boat and what you will be comfortable on.

Fourth it will help inform you as to where you want to go cruising.

It is a very personal (for all involved) choice and what any of us may post here as suggestions is at this point irrelevant.
Click to expand...

Wifey B: AMEN! :dance:

Would you suddenly decide to move to a city across the world without ever having visited there? :nonono::nonono:

You only have an image of what boating is like, no knowledge of what it's like to live on a boat.

CHARTER, CHARTER, CHARTER. Get on friend's boats if you can for a while. Biggest single sign you're not ready is wife liking old wooden. The uninformed thinks they're beautiful. Does she really like the idea of spending 50% of her retirement time working on maintaining an old wooden boat?

Your next years need to be spent first not deciding on what boat, but learning if any boat is right for you. After that, comes which one.

You'll get a very distorted view of boating on this site if you're not careful. Everyone here loves it. None of those who tried living aboard and hated it and sold their boat at a huge loss and couldn't afford to move back to a house like they had before are here. But there are many of those.

I love love love love love boating so I am lousy at presenting the other side because I can't grasp it. However, compare boating to an RV and if you're honest, you'll see why so many more choose RV than living on a boat. Less expensive, can go more places, can get there faster. Yet, to me an RV would never come close because it's not on the water and I must must must must must be on the water. I can't explain that though. It's something you have to feel. If you charter 4 different weeks in 4 different boats in 4 different locations and you don't come away absolutely loving the idea of living aboard and dying to get started, if it doesn't move you tremendously, then it's not likely for you. Every time we chartered I only wanted my own boat more. Now, while we were doing that I already had boating experience from the lake and we had a sport boat to play with, but it was three weeks and even six weeks on a charter and I had to have it. :D
 
BandB,
Thank you for the input. My wife and I have a 5th wheel and love it. We love to travel and camp and plan on doing more when we are done with boating.


We have both been on charters, although they were before we met, so we have not gone on a charter together. I have been out to sea a quite a few times but not overnight on charters. We have been on cruises and loved it. I know, not the same due to size and not working but the fresh air, the smells and sounds of the water are definitely pulling at our hearts to go.



As far as the distorted view, I am very aware of the possibility's you have mentioned and really thank you for reminding me. It is a possibility but no one ever really knows until they try. I have a lot of Irish in me so I know Murphy very well, in fact I do believe he is a close relative. ;^>



The wooden boat thing is out the window (porthole?) as it was something that my wife liked, not necessarily what she wanted.
 
caltexflanc,
As of right now I have just taken the AZ Boaters Safety course, I also have charts that I am looking over and learning. Once I get the money I will take the Captains Course and have my wife study with me.



My wife and I have been on a few cruises and realize it is not the same as a liveaboard situation, but we both fell in love with the dream of boating and this is why I am looking into this possibility now (4-5 years ahead), to see if it is feasible and possible for us to fulfill this dream. We have not committed as of yet, we like to know as much of the pros and cons that we can before we commit the amount of money and time this will take. This is why I joined this group (and other resources), to get both good and bad about boats, living onboard, and all the other fun stuff. So please keep the info coming, I really appreciate all the input whether it is good or bad aspects of what we are trying to do. It opens our eyes and will set us up for success whether we go ahead or make a u-turn and just RV it. It's all good.
 
dsmangan said:
BandB,
Thank you for the input. My wife and I have a 5th wheel and love it. We love to travel and camp and plan on doing more when we are done with boating.


We have both been on charters, although they were before we met, so we have not gone on a charter together. I have been out to sea a quite a few times but not overnight on charters. We have been on cruises and loved it. I know, not the same due to size and not working but the fresh air, the smells and sounds of the water are definitely pulling at our hearts to go.



As far as the distorted view, I am very aware of the possibility's you have mentioned and really thank you for reminding me. It is a possibility but no one ever really knows until they try. I have a lot of Irish in me so I know Murphy very well, in fact I do believe he is a close relative. ;^>



The wooden boat thing is out the window (porthole?) as it was something that my wife liked, not necessarily what she wanted.
Click to expand...

Wifey B: We have at least one person here who boats 6 months of the year and RV's the other six.

You mentioned taking a captain's course. What about your wife? This is a great way to start learning together. Spouses go three ways. Some prefer just to be ride along passengers. Some are find handling lines but not much more, maybe taking watch while you use the restroom. I fit in the third group though. I want to be an active participant. I have the same license as my hubby and I enjoy being at the helm. By being fully immersed, I don't get bored or feel left out. :D
 
The captains course, terrific. Charter a few boats, great. Learn how to handle a boat, sure although that is probably the easiest aspect of the whole thing.

What will fry your dreams and your budget are the things like what you'll see in Marine Survey 101. If you have to pull out your wallet every time there is an issue like these rather than doing it yourself your budget will go south in a hurry.

Getting close to 5,000 surveys now and distinctly remember the three boats that were "turn-key".
 
Greetings,
Mr. bp. Yup. A certain amount of "poetic license" in the majority, not all, boat listings.
 
Welcome to the forum, you'll find this place to be full of knowledgable people who are very willing to share experiences and opinions (sometimes more opinion than experience - myself included ;) - but always fair and with good intent). This community helped us a year ago when we were buying our first trawler and the advice we received was invaluable.

Back then we developed a long list of needs, wants and like-to-haves and landed pretty darn close to the ideal boat. For us, we got very close to what we wanted, a capable, simple pilothouse at or under 40' that we could DIY and feel good in sailing around the PNW in all seasons. You can read our list and purchase story here: https://mvfortitude.com/2018/01/23/how-we-accidentally-bought-a-trawler/

Ours was around $100K, boathouse kept and well maintained. Still it had a long list of typical repairs, upgrades and some deferred maintenance it needed, but we knew what we were buying (from the hull and mechanical surveys) and adjusted our offer and planned accordingly. I also really like DIY projects so for me this was part of the postitive ownership experience - not everyone is as happy about boat project as I am. ;)

Lot's of folks will advise you to buy your second boat first. This is great advice in theory as you'll save money and reduce missteps, but in practice it's pretty hard to do. Once you start with a specific boat you realize what you like and don't like, how you actually use the boat, where you are willing to travel - all of which will change your list of needs needs and wants.

Now that we've been bitten buy the live-aboard bug and have met more live-aboard boaters and been on more boats our list of needs are evolving and we're already researching our next boat. No timeline, just starting the process to get where we want to go as we continue to use our current boat as originally intended.

So lot's of great advice here, but there are four things I'd recommend:

1. Make your boat list
2. Tour everything (boat shows, broker boats, friends boats) and adjust your boat list
3. Go boating; charter, friends, crew, etc. (or do what we did and buy a boat) and adjust your boat list
4. Buy the boat that's closest to your boat list (knowing you might get only 80% of your list in any given budget).

Best of luck and keep us posted!
 
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Anyone can buy a boat and shove off.

The vast majority get away with surviving everything from the financials to the marriage to staying alive.

But a few don't survive one or all of the above.

Even full time boating and taking baby steps in addition to very expensive training can be inadequate.... To long range cruise...through the canal, the wilds of Alaska, etc....even a decade of intense boating can seem not enough.

Heck most people that come up from small boating to cruising take that long to figure out what boats work for them, plus the time to learn how to handle them and fix them.

Some learn quick, some never get it...but until you start cruising on bigger boats, your learning curve will barely have begun ......no matter what "courses" you take.

It's a great lifestyle...many of which here started and built upon for 50 years or so ..some with professional credentials on top of everything ..and none of us have all the answers, all the experience needed, etc....

So sure get started, hit it running and don't be afraid of moving up each level...just cautious.
 
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my 2 cents....
the main things are....
a good battery bank
we mounted 1500 watt of solar panels
(we live generator free with a 19 KWH battery bank and a Victron inverter)
We got rid of the generator, freed up some nice space, which is very important as year round live-aboard/ cruisers
 
Vitamin Sea said:
What makes a blue water boat?
Click to expand...

I'm sure there are many opinions here on this question but I've found the CE certification classes to be useful:

A Class A yacht ( boat ) is a vessel that is built to navigate the open ocean and surpass a force 8 on the Beaufort scale and surpass waves higher than 4 meters. These yachts are constructed to be self sufficient in hostile seas.

A Class B yacht ( boat ) is a vessel built to navigate on the offshore waters (200 miles and less) and can sustain UP TO force 8 and waves UP TO 4 meters.

A Class C boat is a vessel built to navigate inshore such as lakes, rivers, bays and close to the shore and can sustain UP TO force 6 and waves UP TO 2 meters.

A Class D boat is built for protected or sheltered waters such as canals, rivers, small lakes and sustain a force 4 and waves UP TO .3 meters (less that 1 ft).

Lot's available via Google about this but the answer sort of depends on your own version of "blue water". To me, it's a vessel with or capable of Class A rating but B or C is pretty much what most recreational trawlers were designed to do.
 
You should not consider anything over 50’. No wood. Impossible to insure and you will work on it not use it. No need for a genset greater than 12KW. Install some solar. Buy boat now or 2 yrs prior to pull out date if you are considering older model due to refit work that will be required. Get a true trawler!
 
Here's a little dose of reality: Any 40+' boat requires a lot of maintenance and repair, and on the stated monthly living budget, you will be doing all or most of that maintenance and repair yourself. The maintenance will be nearly the same for a 20 year old boat as a new boat (and way more for a wooden boat). Repair/refurbishment will be more as the boat ages. Furthermore, if you are in this for the long term, a 10 year old boat will be 20 years old 10 years on, even a new boat will be 10 years, so the age of the boat will only delay or advance the clock a little.

You need to spend some time on boats to see if you like the lifestyle (for many, the reality does not match the dream), but also to become familiar with systems repair and maintenance. You mention getting a Captain's license - I'd instead invest the time in courses or experience in diesel mechanics and boat electrical systems, fiberglass repair, etc. There will be many, many more times you will wish you had a Diesel Mechanics license or an Electricians license, than a CG Captains license.

With all that in mind, a modest project boat isn't that bad a place to start. This will get your feet wet in maintenance and repair while still stationary, and will familiarize you with the boats systems, weaknesses, and quirks. As it becomes your home and you move from place to place, maintenance and repair become more challenging - you don't know the area, don't know the trade in that area, don't know where to shop for parts and tools, you don't have land transportation.

The old adage "Cruising is just working on your boat in exotic places" has a lot of truth in it.
 
boatpoker said:
Getting close to 5,000 surveys now and distinctly remember the three boats that were "turn-key".
Click to expand...


That says a lot right there!



My boat is great and in perfect condition. Of course, in my minds eye I see the condition of the boat after I've taken care of that long list of "minor" things that I've been meaning to get around to doing. A potential buyer (and qualified surveyor) don't see the same (imaginary) boat that I see.
 
I second what Shrew said. Stay away from wood especially if you plan on this type of cruising. SO many power boats out there and more than likely in better shape than anything you’ll find in wood.
Check popyachts, boats.com and any google search will lead you to a ton of other sites and brokers.

Get off the lakes and onto the ocean. Beside the Great Lakes, there is a MAJOR learning curve.

Plan, plan, plan. There’s a LOT to think about for what your plans are. Keep reading here, tons of good advice on everything you can think of.

Best to you and wife!!
 
Turn-key is good. But, and there’s always a but.
Spend the extra and get a survey.
It gives the best idea of “turn-key” and also can work as a negotiating point when the survey uncovers what might not be known.
 
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