finishing the ceiling

[Lobo]

Hello all, we are new to this forum and to the liveaboard life. Just moved on board TODAY!!!
We are basically gutting the staterooms/head in our trawler to insulate and refinish the inside.
My question is this, we have looked at lots of pics of ceilings in trawlers and alot of them use planks with a v-joint. Is this for a specific reason or is it just what has been used in the past, like teak and holly floors?
We would like to use a type of tongue and groove and finish the planks smooth, looking more like a wall board.
I am going to post another question regarding the head as well on a separate thread so if you have info please help us with that question as well.
Thanks so much, I'm loving the info I'm finding here.

 

[Phil Fill]

Hello all, we are new to this forum and to the liveaboard life. Just moved on board TODAY!!!
We are basically gutting the staterooms/head in our trawler to insulate and refinish the inside.
My question is this, we have looked at lots of pics of ceilings in trawlers and alot of them use planks with a v-joint. Is this for a specific reason or is it just what has been used in the past, like teak and holly floors?
We would like to use a type of tongue and groove and finish the planks smooth, looking more like a wall board.
I am going to post another question regarding the head as well on a separate thread so if you have info please help us with that question as well.
Thanks so much, I'm loving the info I'm finding here.

Our ceilings are plain old ¼ ply which we texture with wood strips to accent the ceiling. We textured using the course texture mix in the off white paint down in the state rooms as they are sort of dark to begin with. The Salon ceiling we covered with a textured vinyl covering that looks like a weave, and painted a rose/cantaloupe color to match the teak beams and strips. When we bought he Eagle it had way to much teak, which made the boat look dull/dark, so we want to bright it up. Being use Exterior Bright side pain as it does come in an assortment of colors. I used plan oak wood 1/2 rounds and stain them a teak color and satin varnish. We still have plenty of teak wood.

 

[skipperdude]

Not trying to be picky here just using boat terms.
Ceilings are boards on a bulkhead or on the wall ??? Over your head is the overhead??
A floor is properly, a structural member which ties a frame to the keelson and keel

Someone set me straight here.

sd

 

[Brooksie]

The original idea, ceilings made from strips or battens, was that strips could follow 3D shape of the hull and have spaces between them to vent the inside of the planking. I used 1/4 x 1-1/2" pine battens rounded over on one side, stained lightly and prefinished. They were placed touching each other so the result did look a little like a "V" groove. I was very happy with the result and it has stood the test of time.

If by ceilings, you mean overheads, as the previous responder thought; I have had bad luck with std. perforated headliner. I got mine from Sailrite Co. and it was a mildew magnet until I finally painted it with mildewproof paint.

 

[Lobo]

terms

I'm trying to get used to the right terms now. When I said ceiling, I meant the walls from the floor up to the overhead.
Thanks for the info so far.
So once we have the hull insulated we should be able to use the tongue and groove, sanded smooth rather than the v-joint as long as the planks can be bent to the shape of the hull? The methods would be similar to how a cedar canoe is put together. Of course the planks would be fastened down to the hull.

 

[koliver]

Lobo;

Not trying to add to the confusion here re the term "ceiling", but I have always seen it restricted to the inner lining of the ribs, so an interior wall, either fore and aft or athwartships will be called a bulkhead and the underside of the deck will be the "Deckhead" or "overhead".
The usual ceiling covering is as explained by Brooksie.

 

[Lobo]

"The usual ceiling covering is as explained by Brooksie."
More information please, I don't understand this statement.

 

[Lobo]

"The usual ceiling covering is as explained by Brooksie."
More information please, I don't understand this statement.

Never mind, I went back and figured it out.
Thanks for the info Brooksie.
So is the space or a v joint necessary or will the tongue and groove work? Anyone tried it?
THe approached we were looking at was similar to how a cedar canoe is built, useing strips that are fitted together and sanded down to look solid. Any thoughts about this?

 

[Brooksie]

Never mind, I went back and figured it out.
Thanks for the info Brooksie.
So is the space or a v joint necessary or will the tongue and groove work? Anyone tried it?
THe approached we were looking at was similar to how a cedar canoe is built, useing strips that are fitted together and sanded down to look solid. Any thoughts about this?

I don't know why the T&G would not work. Actual spaces would only be necessary if you wanted / needed the area behind the ceiling to breathe.

You didn't say what kind of T&G you were getting, what you were fastening into, what area of your boat you are doing, or if your boat is wood or FG. So with that many variables, I,m not sure you will get a clear answer here and if you did, I'm not sure it would be correct.

My experience with the aformentioned 1/4" X 1-1/2" pine battens in the fwd. cabin area of my 35' downeast boat was that I was glad they were no thicker nor wider and it took three people to bend and screw them in place working around the chart table and 4 bunks already in place.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
As Mr. Brooksie alluded to, I've heard one should finish (coat-paint/varnish) ALL sides of any piece of wood installed on a vessel. (not only the side that may be visible).

 

[FF]

The guy next door has an old Nordy 62.

They use 3/16 ply sheets covered with a plastic material.

Everything snaps up with plastic catches ,,sorta velcro like system , but both sides are plastic that catch on identical plastic.

Pulls down fairly simply , so changing wiring , (he is switching to LED) or ordinary access is a SNAP!

Recovering is also very easy when the time comes to refresh the overhead..

 

[Phil Fill]

You can weaken the planks by ripping/sawing slices/groves deep enough so the plank will bend. Then when fastening to the wall fill the groves with epoxy with additive which will harder and give the blank strength again. When rebuilding the Portuguese bridge I used ¾ ply that I ripped groves in, and then filled the groves with epoxy.

 

[Lobo]

You didn't say what kind of T&G you were getting, what you were fastening into, what area of your boat you are doing, or if your boat is wood or FG. So with that many variables, I,m not sure you will get a clear answer here and if you did, I'm not sure it would be correct.

My experience with the aformentioned 1/4" X 1-1/2" pine battens in the fwd. cabin area of my 35' downeast boat was that I was glad they were no thicker nor wider and it took three people to bend and screw them in place working around the chart table and 4 bunks already in place.[/QUOTE]

We are going down to the hull in a fiberglass 50'. The first area and the one most concerned with the planks is the forward stateroom and head (the head was put in the V). We won't have to work around other things too much although the head is going to be tight working in. Once we strip it down we will be f/g in a system of 'ribs' then insulating then fastening down the planks to form the inside walls. Once the forward staterooms and head are done we will then move onto the salon/galley/2nd head.

WE were considering using Fir stips, what do you think?

 

[Lobo]

You can weaken the planks by ripping/sawing slices/groves deep enough so the plank will bend. Then when fastening to the wall fill the groves with epoxy with additive which will harder and give the blank strength again. When rebuilding the Portuguese bridge I used ¾ ply that I ripped groves in, and then filled the groves with epoxy.

Thanks, I'll pass this on.

 

[Phil Fill]

Thanks, I'll pass this on.

You might want to frame the interior, like a house, before the planks. The Eagle staterooms have a 2" X 2" frame that 1/4" ply/veneer was fasen to. The 2"X 2" where fiber glassed to the hull. For the interior I used Liquid Nail for the bath room which has held for 15+ years. Most of the interior stuff, lights/paints/fixtures was bought at Lows as the marine stuff was/is to expensive and boaty/marine/shippy for us. I mean just because the Eagle is ugly shippy exterior does not mean the interior has to be.

 

[RT Firefly]

Read Mr. Lobo's post P/F! That's what he's intending on doing.

 

[Brooksie]

WE were considering using Fir stips, what do you think?[/QUOTE]

Yes, fir strips even nicer than pine and will finish up beautifully. The battens (ribs) on the hull to fasten them to are the hard part. We used plastering lathes sp?, buttered with thickened epoxy, and a dab of hotmelt on each end to hold them while the epoxy set. Where the curve was bad, same but with 5 min epoxy on the ends. Where it was very bad, ripped thin and applied in 2 pcs as above. The ceiling strips were then applied with lightly countersunk oval head screws no finishing washers or plugs. They look fine and are easily removable for access to wiring and spray rail bolts.

 

[Lobo]

For the interior I used Liquid Nail for the bath room which has held for 15+ years.

So you used the Liquid Nail instead of fg in the bathroom to put your 'ribs' in?

 

[Lobo]

WE were considering using Fir stips, what do you think?

Yes, fir strips even nicer than pine and will finish up beautifully. The battens (ribs) on the hull to fasten them to are the hard part. We used plastering lathes sp?, buttered with thickened epoxy, and a dab of hotmelt on each end to hold them while the epoxy set. Where the curve was bad, same but with 5 min epoxy on the ends. Where it was very bad, ripped thin and applied in 2 pcs as above. The ceiling strips were then applied with lightly countersunk oval head screws no finishing washers or plugs. They look fine and are easily removable for access to wiring and spray rail bolts.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, we were wondering about the screws, if they would look like zippers every few feet along the walls but if countersunk... We were wondering if we glued the tongue and groove to fasten the planks if brad nails would be enough to hold it down since it will be solid.

 

[LaBomba]

Yes, fir strips even nicer than pine and will finish up beautifully. The battens (ribs) on the hull to fasten them to are the hard part. We used plastering lathes sp?, buttered with thickened epoxy, and a dab of hotmelt on each end to hold them while the epoxy set. Where the curve was bad, same but with 5 min epoxy on the ends. Where it was very bad, ripped thin and applied in 2 pcs as above. The ceiling strips were then applied with lightly countersunk oval head screws no finishing washers or plugs. They look fine and are easily removable for access to wiring and spray rail bolts.

Thanks, we were wondering about the screws, if they would look like zippers every few feet along the walls but if countersunk... We were wondering if we glued the tongue and groove to fasten the planks if brad nails would be enough to hold it down since it will be solid.[/QUOTE]

Depending on how much bend you need you may not get it using tongue and groove. You can use a canoe bit set on a router which gives a round on one edge of the plank and concave on the other which fit very nicely together and will bend to a sharp angle and can be glued in the joint. IMHO I would not consider using brad nails as the primary fastener, they can work themselves out especially where bends are involved.

 

[ARoss]

You can weaken the planks by ripping/sawing slices/groves deep enough so the plank will bend. Then when fastening to the wall fill the groves with epoxy with additive which will harder and give the blank strength again. When rebuilding the Portuguese bridge I used ¾ ply that I ripped groves in, and then filled the groves with epoxy.

This might be a statement of the obvious to most, but the "grooves" or kerf cuts, should be perpendicular to the intended bend of the wood strip. Also, keeping the cuts uniform in depth and spacing is important in maintaining a smooth curve.

 

[Phil Fill]

So you used the Liquid Nail instead of fg in the bathroom to put your 'ribs' in?

NO - I used Liquid nail that is used/meant to hold a bath/shower enclosure. I also put a few small nails. I figure if it can hold a shower/tub enclosure, it should hold on the interior of a boat. The Liquid nail dries/hold in less than 30 seconds

I do use a lot of West System Epoxy for exterior stuff, and some interior. Epoxy if mixed hot will take about 10 to 20 minutes to set up. To long for me to hold.

 

[Lobo]

Thanks, we were wondering about the screws, if they would look like zippers every few feet along the walls but if countersunk... We were wondering if we glued the tongue and groove to fasten the planks if brad nails would be enough to hold it down since it will be solid.

Depending on how much bend you need you may not get it using tongue and groove. You can use a canoe bit set on a router which gives a round on one edge of the plank and concave on the other which fit very nicely together and will bend to a sharp angle and can be glued in the joint. IMHO I would not consider using brad nails as the primary fastener, they can work themselves out especially where bends are involved.[/QUOTE]

I guess I had the terms wrong again, bead and cove is the joint planned for. If glued together do you think the brad nails would work out We were thinking that since the glue will make it like an interior hull the brad nails would simply keep it in place

 

[LaBomba]

Depending on how much bend you need you may not get it using tongue and groove. You can use a canoe bit set on a router which gives a round on one edge of the plank and concave on the other which fit very nicely together and will bend to a sharp angle and can be glued in the joint. IMHO I would not consider using brad nails as the primary fastener, they can work themselves out especially where bends are involved.

I guess I had the terms wrong again, bead and cove is the joint planned for. If glued together do you think the brad nails would work out We were thinking that since the glue will make it like an interior hull the brad nails would simply keep it in place[/QUOTE]

Yes Lobo, your bead and cove is what I was referring to as a canoe bit, that will work good for you. I am still not a fan of brad nails on anything that has movement or vibration, I would personally rather use some counter sunk screws and you could get away with fewer than using brads and if they are kept in straight lines they really don't look bad at all. Only my opinion of course. Good luck with your project and send pics when done.

Allan

 

[Lobo]

I guess I had the terms wrong again, bead and cove is the joint planned for. If glued together do you think the brad nails would work out We were thinking that since the glue will make it like an interior hull the brad nails would simply keep it in place

Yes Lobo, your bead and cove is what I was referring to as a canoe bit, that will work good for you. I am still not a fan of brad nails on anything that has movement or vibration, I would personally rather use some counter sunk screws and you could get away with fewer than using brads and if they are kept in straight lines they really don't look bad at all. Only my opinion of course. Good luck with your project and send pics when done.

Allan[/QUOTE]

I don't think that I mentioned that we will be gluing the planks onto the battens so the brad nails are just to hold it in place till the glue sets. What do you think?

 

[LaBomba]

Lobo, if your gluing first then the brads would certainly hold until the glue dries. One other consideration though, this all sounds very permanent. If there is any wiring, plumbing etc. behind this area it would not be accessible if glued and nailed. I like to take access into consideration when it might be needed, either now or in the future....just a thought.

Allan

 

[FF]

We had plenty of space between the overhead beams .

A sound absorbing product from Armstrong that imitates wood planking was cut to fit fore and aft.It is about 3/4 in thick.

It is snaps together and held in place from falling with a strip of mahogany ply.

I just got a 1/4 in mahogany ply sheet 10 ft long and ripped it into 2 inch strips .

Then did a mass varnishing. The trim strips are held up with screws and finishing washers .

The insulation and noise reduction does work.

The smooth curve of the ply and the insulation mask the fact the heavy beams were not band sawed with perfection.

 

[Lobo]

Lobo, if your gluing first then the brads would certainly hold until the glue dries. One other consideration though, this all sounds very permanent. If there is any wiring, plumbing etc. behind this area it would not be accessible if glued and nailed. I like to take access into consideration when it might be needed, either now or in the future....just a thought.

Allan

That is definately a consideration so we will be running wiring and plumbing in the engine room/hold rooms under the staterooms and then where we need to bring it through the insulated, finished wall to where it is going. Lots of planning prior to doing anything!!!

 

[Lobo]

Everything snaps up with plastic catches ,,sorta velcro like system , but both sides are plastic that catch on identical plastic.

Pulls down fairly simply , so changing wiring , (he is switching to LED) or ordinary access is a SNAP!

Recovering is also very easy when the time comes to refresh the overhead..

I would be interested in a brand or product name for the 'velcro' they used. Our West Coast 47 had that sort of overhead finish and it was 'tough' and what we are thinking of using on this one.

Oh, the forward head is no more along with the mold and skum, just nice clean fiberglass. Now the stateroom...

 

[FF]

"I would be interested in a brand or product name for the 'velcro' they used."

Its not a fabric , but a set of 1 or 1 1/4 inch diameter thin plastic buttons.

Ask Nordy customer service,,,