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Old 07-30-2014, 10:44 AM   #81
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......... it makes sense to regulate grey water. It is not politics, it is good sense. ...........
Regulations are politics. They are written and put into effect by politicians. The real problem with regulations pertaining to boating is, most of the politicians writing them are not boaters and they pander to the greater number of non boating voters and/or the enviroterrorists.
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Old 07-30-2014, 11:53 AM   #82
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Regulations are politics. They are written and put into effect by politicians..
Nothing could be further from the truth.

Our polluted waterways, air and land are very much noted by fed up citizenry and changes made. To whit, lead in gasoline, coal burning in London two hundred years ago, burning garbage dumps, horrid old car exhaust, slaughterhouse effluent dumped directly into into the Chicago River, no sewage treatment for cities and towns. The list is endless as to what we desire to dump and a neighbor objects.

Having spent half a century dealing with governments world wide permitting, installing air pollution cleanup devices, water treatment plants, land refuse disposal etc - all I can say the world is making progress and in many cases is a much cleaner place but there will always be room for progress for those who care.
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:18 PM   #83
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Nothing could be further from the truth. ....
You are entitled to your opinion, but if you think my statement is untrue you must have missed your US Government classes in junior high school.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us who it is that writes regulations if it is not politicians?
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Old 07-30-2014, 04:44 PM   #84
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Well, here in Seattle we are doing our part in fighting pollution. At a beach in West Seattle, Alki Beach, there is a public bathhouse with a shower for people to wash off the sand, etc. after swimming and on a nearby dock, there is a fish cleaning station. Well, Seattle Public Utilities, our water & sewer agency, turned off the water to both claiming they were violating environmental laws by draining into Puget Sound. The spokesperson for SPU claimed that washing off sand was fine, but it was the "large" amounts of suntan lotion and oil (from a single shower) that were the problem. She did not address the fish cleaning station, but I assume that catching a fish and then returning part of it to the Sound must violate something! They will not turn the water back on until Seattle Parks & Rec replumbs both.
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Old 07-30-2014, 05:39 PM   #85
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You are entitled to your opinion, but if you think my statement is untrue you must have missed your US Government classes in junior high school.

Why don't you go ahead and tell us who it is that writes regulations if it is not politicians?
Usta be politicians, good, then it became staffers for those politicians, still good, now it is lobbyist of the business that the regulations are likely to impact. The new Big Government is now Big Business. If you believe anything anymore is done for the ordinary American...I laugh.... The ONLY way to return this country back to: of the people, for the people, by the people is for public financing of all elections and get the money out of politics so politicians serve the people not their donors. Your jr high civics class no longer applies.
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Old 07-30-2014, 07:07 PM   #86
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Reading just a bit from the link above, it appears that the reactive load is affecting the output waveform of the inverter. I would call that a defect in the design or the inverter. The manufacturer should consider what the consumer might choose to power from the inverter and either design it to handle those loads or warn the potential buyer what cannot be powered by it.
Agree,
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Old 07-31-2014, 07:48 AM   #87
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Well, here in Seattle we are doing our part in fighting pollution. At a beach in West Seattle, Alki Beach, there is a public bathhouse with a shower for people to wash off the sand, etc. after swimming and on a nearby dock, there is a fish cleaning station. Well, Seattle Public Utilities, our water & sewer agency, turned off the water to both claiming they were violating environmental laws by draining into Puget Sound. The spokesperson for SPU claimed that washing off sand was fine, but it was the "large" amounts of suntan lotion and oil (from a single shower) that were the problem. She did not address the fish cleaning station, but I assume that catching a fish and then returning part of it to the Sound must violate something! They will not turn the water back on until Seattle Parks & Rec replumbs both.
Isn't it fun when different parts of the government pass laws that conflict with each other and leave the public or business owners in the middle? Like when the health department bans dogs from restaurants but the ADA requires the restaurant to allow service dogs. Whatever the owner does he is breaking the law.

As for the fish, why is it OK to chop up a whole fish and dump it overboard as bait or chum but if you eat part of the fish first, the remainder is food waste and illegal to dump overboard?
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Old 07-31-2014, 08:54 AM   #88
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Federal ADA trumps local health department regulations...so no conflict. Funny thing about dogs and health laws. A child in a grocery cart with a leaky diaper, face covered with shiny mucus is a human Petri dish that can carry all of the communicable diseases known to man. The dog does not carry any communicable disease that jump to man.........and we worry about dogs? Go figger?
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:22 AM   #89
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Federal ADA trumps local health department regulations...so no conflict. ?
Of course there's a conflict. One law conflicts with the other.
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Old 07-31-2014, 11:56 AM   #90
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I have seen folk using the Fisher & Paykel dish drawer model in boats. I think they are available in the US. On a boat, unless huge, one would just have the single drawer model, although they are available normally in a double (one above the other) arrangement, which is what we have at home here and we love it. Very frugal on water, and very quiet, (you can't hear it washing), and this configuration would be ideal on a boat, because there is no door sticking out to bark your shins on or fall over when filling or emptying. The pic might illustrate this point better, so I just shot out to the kitchen and took one with the iPhone - ain't technorridgy great..? (Note to jnall - misspelling deliberate).
We have the Fisher and Paykel single drawer on our boat and are very happy with it. We generally run it on the eco wash (no heated drying) and it takes about 35 minutes. It is not connected to our inverter. We usually run it as soon as we get back to the dock and it is done by the time we are ready to leave. It is more than 18" wide though. It is in the space that used to house the oven. We switched to a convection microwave over the fridge as our only oven.
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:40 AM   #91
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Dishwasher?

We haven't had a dishwasher on board, but will have, if we can fit one in! We think our home unit, a Bosch, uses less water than hand washing, and is definitely more sanitary! We had less colds passed around the family when using a dishwasher. Especially true when we had a larger family!
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Old 08-05-2014, 11:55 AM   #92
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We have a dishwasher (appliance) at home but seldom use it with just two adults and a small puppy. There's no room for one on the boat and if we don't need one at home, we hardly need one on the boat.

It might make sense for a larger boat and more people.
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Old 08-05-2014, 12:13 PM   #93
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Of course there's a conflict. One law conflicts with the other.
State and local law does not apply in cases where federal law specifically allows some type of action such as ADA. There is a conflict in the 2, however the proprietor is not violating state or local law by fulfilling federal law.
One situation I find perplexing is that I have read that on Lake Champlain that Coast Guard approved sanitation devices such as the Raritan Electro Scan is not allowed (yeah I know ya gotta add brine) by New York. Still there is more, if your y valve is closed, and secured thereby sending the effluent to a holding tank that is still not good enough, the hoses have to be removed, presumably plugged. I would think a local poddy cop would write a ticket to the wrong person (read rich, perhaps attorney) and that would go down in flames. Those sanitation devices are specifically approved for use by the standards set by the Coast Guard. The method for securing the y valve handle, to my understanding, is specified by the Coast Guard, so where does NY get the authority to trump federal law in waters that the Coast Guard has supreme authority.
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Old 08-05-2014, 03:49 PM   #94
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if we don't need one at home, we hardly need one on the boat.

This can be applied to a LOT of creature comforts on the boat. Tools, no, kitchen gadgets, yes. For us in a "small" (35') boat, we have to take a long hard look at each thing we have on board to evaluate if the space it takes up is justified. For us, a dishwasher made the cut and a traditional oven did not.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:01 PM   #95
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Mule-In general, federal law trumps state law. However, the general rule is that where federal law regulates an issue, such as waste discharge you mentioned, federal law is considered a base standard and states can enact laws imposing more restrictive, but not less restrictive standards. The classic example is California consistently enacting more stringent auto emissions standards than those set out in federal law.
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Old 08-05-2014, 06:17 PM   #96
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State and local law does not apply in cases where federal law specifically allows some type of action such as ADA. There is a conflict in the 2, however the proprietor is not violating state or local law by fulfilling federal law.
One situation I find perplexing is that I have read that on Lake Champlain that Coast Guard approved sanitation devices such as the Raritan Electro Scan is not allowed (yeah I know ya gotta add brine) by New York. Still there is more, if your y valve is closed, and secured thereby sending the effluent to a holding tank that is still not good enough, the hoses have to be removed, presumably plugged. I would think a local poddy cop would write a ticket to the wrong person (read rich, perhaps attorney) and that would go down in flames. Those sanitation devices are specifically approved for use by the standards set by the Coast Guard. The method for securing the y valve handle, to my understanding, is specified by the Coast Guard, so where does NY get the authority to trump federal law in waters that the Coast Guard has supreme authority.
They don't trump the USCG...the state petitioned the US EPA to make Lake Champlain a "no-discharge zone" in which even treated effluent can not be discharged. There are many no-discharge zones throughout the US...fortunately it is still a small portion of US waterways.

The USCG just approves the device..not the jurisdictions where they can't be used as set by the EPA.

No Discharge Zones by State | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA
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Old 08-05-2014, 08:05 PM   #97
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Confusing?.

Naaaah, not in the least??
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Old 08-05-2014, 09:06 PM   #98
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To me it is less confusing as it is infuriating that "the big picture" is often overlooked to punish small segments of the population that become targeted for political capital.
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Old 08-05-2014, 10:35 PM   #99
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Yep

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To me it is less confusing as it is infuriating that "the big picture" is often overlooked to punish small segments of the population that become targeted for political capital.
y the owing out a straw man.

That is what I was trying to say.....small boats are a target that politicos can attack and make it look like they are actually doing something all the while only throwing out a straw man so only appear to be doing something. Kindda like an earlier poster that was supporting grey water pollution from small boats, pure BS. As I said, stomping piss ants in an elephant stampede.
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:42 AM   #100
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Mule-In general, federal law trumps state law. However, the general rule is that where federal law regulates an issue, such as waste discharge you mentioned, federal law is considered a base standard and states can enact laws imposing more restrictive, but not less restrictive standards. The classic example is California consistently enacting more stringent auto emissions standards than those set out in federal law.
Here's one to ponder:

There are federal laws outlawing the sale, possession and use of marijuana. A few states have legalized it despite the federal laws. I don't think I have to tell anyone how that's working out.
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