Could 30ft boat be comfortable for liveaboards?

[South of Heaven]

It better be good, I'm doing it this fall in Boston! Renting out my house and moving on my Camano full time.

I'm 36 years old, single (dating) , no kids, no pets. Can't wait! Different strokes for different folks.

I was talking about it at my parents house during our Easter get together. They think I'm crazy. I think it's quite sane!

The extra passive income stream is nice too.....

 

[johnma]

Since you already have the boat and you already have a house, you should go ahead and try it with the understanding that you can always move back ashore. Your headroom looks good the head could be an issue since it doesn't look like you have a seperate shower. I know guys that have lived aboard boats that size and couples that have lived aboard boats only a foot or two longer. You're never going to know until you try. If it does not work then you will have gained valuable information as to what your personal requirements are to give it a future try.
Good luck and let us know how it works
John

 

[foggysail]

I believe the OP talked about living in a marina, so water capacity might not be an issue.

My post was a response to Lou Tribal

 

[South of Heaven]

OP: Don't listen to Foggysail! He has a growing trend of giving rude comments and does a disservice to any potential liveaboards.

Here's a thread I started a few months ago on The Hull Truth forum about living aboard. Read his posts! Starts at #19.

Foggy: Why are you so dismissive to people?? Living aboard is not your cup of tea. That's totally fine! But why put people down and be rude in the process?

https://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/900149-any-new-england-liveaboards-here.html

 

[tiltrider1]

25 years ago I sold my house to invest in a business. I moved on to my 34’ sail boat. It had a wet head and diesel furnace, it was very livable for one. Then I acquired a wife. She managed 2 winters and then said it was time for a bigger boat or a house and her preference was the bigger boat so that’s what we did. Some were along the line she said it was time for a washer and dryer, that’s how we ended up with this boat. We could easily afford a house but we just like living on boats.

 

[Nidza]

So many good comments, info and experiences. I will not do it one by one, it would take too long.

Many say that it is better to have separate shower in the head, why? In my case, it is not separate. I presume that it is about saving time because two people can do two "tasks" at the same time, especially if one task is "emergency task" or is it something else?

Having a place to escape is a plus, definitely and I believe that one was from Ski, very motivating comment! And yes, not bringing all the stuff and not thinking yet of throwing away stuff. But, I am curious, what are the stuff that pile up in time when you are liveaboard, many of you stating that as main problem? I mean, you probably do think of it before bringing it compared to house living. We did piling up of food and clothes when traveling for 3 weeks, but we had enough "places", the hardest task was to arrange it properly in the available space, but if you arrange it in a good way, actually there is still a lot of room. Yes, you choose some food a bit differently, too. This boat actually has a lot of space for storage, which you become aware of when you need it. Since I have rearranged the boat during restoration/renovation process, I also have big storage instead of two original 300 liter gasoline fuel tanks. I have redesigned central tank which was for water to be for 220 liters of diesel fuel (more than enough, if needed more, a couple of plastic jerrycans do the job). And the water tank is now flexible tank under the V-berth, which also counteracts the weight of that one big diesel which is now in the stern instead of two light gasoline engines. Too many technical details for this thread...Well, some of you said that washing and drying machine are valuable, in those storage where tanks were, I could integrate smallest such household machines if that turns up to be the problem, but I would prefer not to do it in the beginning.

Someone said nice vacation and weekend boat, thanks, that one I can already confirm. Vacation boat in remote place would be a second option currently.

I agree that it is about the type of person(s) at most.

I need to process all of it now for some time and start acting.

 

[sunchaser]

Gosh do I have a boat for you! Too bad we are so far apart.

Yes, there are indeed some vessels in this size range that could serve as a decent love aboard, yours being one Bob. As Ski and others note provided you've got shore facilities for wash, storage and tool center even better.

Likewise there are some + or - 30 footers that would be more challenging. Then comes in weather, over together issues, cabin fever etc. For a single guy, a well tended vessel like this is a babe magnet especially if the ladies can go home the next day smiling and looking forward to the next visit.

Have any ladies weighed in yet? Hate to see all male opinions.

 

[OldDan1943]

Remember there is a difference between OAL and WWL

My AT34 (WWL 32.5ft)..... I live alone onboard 10 months of the year. I have "company", half of the small hanging closet it used. Other side in stateroom, non-perishable food in a small cabinet. We each get a drawer for foldable clothes then, a drawer for sheets, a drawer and one for towels. In the saloon, 2 drawers for boating related stuff such as batteries, caulking, glue, bulbs. tape, sewing and whipping thread etc. Under-seat .... spare parts and zincs etc.

I MUST learn, can goods can be bought stores as needed. I don't have to take them all with me. In reality, I keep the canned goods for about a year and then give them to the dock personnel. They can sort through them, keeping what is good and what they want.

Not too sure about cutting back on spare parts but, I can relocate them in bins under the berth. I can then fill the under-seat area with a bin the misc boating stuff from at least one drawers. I may go for days without using items from these drawers.

Galley, most of the time, I have to unpack a cupboard to get the pans I need. It is called 'prior planning' combined with 'put it back where you found it.'

Is it possible to live aboard underway for extended periods of time, YES. It would be much easier to live onboard an AT with another 5 feet of OAL aka 39.5 OAL. Alas, if the AT were 5 feet longer, I would have less stuff in the store room and more stuff onboard. If I had a 100 foot boat..... never mind. We know the drill.

 

[johnma]

my comment about the separate shower was because my last boat did not have one and my current boat does. I did not realize how nice it was until I had one. (like most things in life)
John

 

[psneeld]

Everyone has their limit of "tolerance"....

Once exceeded, fun is slowly eroded and upsizing or downsizing ones boat is thought about seriously....or more common, moving back ashore.

if I had to run to a dirt dwelling or storage unit every time I needed something I use every week, my fun meter would start to sag quite a bit.

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

In regard to living on a small boat, I believe age is less a factor than one's health and--quite honestly--girth. I have seen many large/unhealthy looking boaters (across all ages) who would have a difficult time living on a small boat. Being trim and healthy, no matter the age, makes for a far more enjoyable boating experience!

 

[foggysail]

OP: Don't listen to Foggysail! He has a growing trend of giving rude comments and does a disservice to any potential liveaboards.

https://www.thehulltruth.com/northeast/900149-any-new-england-liveaboards-here.html

Winters in Boston where you seek a winter haven are bitter cold. A 31' boat has slightly over 300 square feet of living space if you include the rear deck which may be fine for some, most not so fine. Winter in Boston even South Boston is a far cry from being south of heaven like it or not.

The thread you referenced from THT has 60 reponses with less than 5 recommending "go for it!' But to ask a question and then get upset because you object to a non-supporting answer then respond with an attack is uncalled for.

One of the better response from your above URL is post #33 by CMEBoston which you choose to ignore in your quest for a Boston winter endurance test. His post is one of the best I have read describing living on a boat in a cold climate which I have copied below, it certainly is worth reading:

"I worked at a marina for 10 years that had live aboards. Every single one of them NEVER used their boats in th summer.
There was no water, no pump out (I think you’ll find the private and town pump out boats are winterized, there really is no way to pump out ice no matter how hard you suck) so bathroom and shower run suck factor would be depended on how far you are from the facilites and how warm they kept them. At this marina the bathrooms were kept in the 50s just to prevent freezing the pipes.
you’ll also have a meter hooked up to the boat and will be paying whatever the marina charges for electricity, not the power company.

You will be cold, even in a decked out trawler with ancillary heat. I’ve done enough winter work on wet stored boats to tell you it’s cold, and in temps like we have had last week a typical reverse cycle heating system would not work, the water discharge would most certainly freeze leaving you suceptable to having the whole system get ice damage."

From this same URL your post #28 YOU replied to me:

"But I will you give you credit for speaking your mind and not filtering your thoughts. Because I've been known to do the same on this and other forums. Haha! But that doesn't make it right."

Finally...if you do not like my posts, then do not read them!

 

[diver dave]

check out Youtube-Abandon Comfort.

28 y/o pair in a 35' sailboat. They have lived aboard for a little bit. An episode ago, they lamented buying such a large boat, and wished it was a 30 footer.
We will see how that argument holds after a few crossings out at sea.
Anyway, a lot of reality in some of these vids.
There is another couple that tried to winter aboard in the NE; they had to remove everything every 2 weeks and kill all the mildew, all in freezing weather. Exciting times ahead.

 

[Ken E.]

We live on board for the summer months, traveling between Washington and Alaska. To me, climate is a huge issue for living aboard.....just as much so as the size of the boat. The winters here, and in Boston, can be frigid. Very hard to keep the boat warm. The docks can be covered with snow and ice, the NE wind howling, here in Bellinham anyway. Not insurmountable obstacles if you're game for this sort of experience, but certainly not user friendly. Ever so much easier to live aboard if you're in the lower latitudes, southern California or down toward Florida on the east coast. The liveaboards I know here just grit their teeth and endure it, waiting for spring.

 

[South of Heaven]

Foggy (in response to the THT thread): I have zero issues with dissenting responses or counter viewpoints but I DO have an issue with condescending/rude remarks. As you said, most folks that replied were against it. That's fine! But I felt that your responses were like, "You're an idiot for doing that" or "who the hell would wanna do that?". Those type of responses add absolutely nothing to the discussion. And then further more on this thread (Trawler Forum) you were heading down the same path IMO! That's why I posted what I posted. An attack?? NO. More like someone just trying to level the playing field.

To post 33 (THT): I didn't respond to his post because it hardly even applied to my marina. We HAVE water (heated pipes). We HAVE winter pumpouts (although I would probably be using the marina facilities more in the winter). And so on, and so on. Not every marina is the same. It's silly to make a blanket statement like that and assume every marina has the same level of facilities/services.

To post 28 (THT): I stand by what I said.

 

[Nidza]

Still excellent info from everyone.

Boat is 30ft OAL, 27ft WL.

We are healthy and fit, I agree that is something that also affects choices.

Going each week to the storage, yes, that sounds like trouble, but good plan could help, although without washing machine it could be unavoidable.

Abandon comfort - interesting story, not the only one with their blog. They did not do the homework, most people (like them) who sailed around the world did it in 27-28ft sailboats, but also most of them did it prior to 2000s, maybe even prior to 1990s. Probably because then it was more considered as great adventure and accomplishment due to needed enthusiasm, energy and skills involved than today. Also, internet did not arrive yet and made almost the whole world into one same place almost killing cultural diversity (of course that has a great side too, shared greater knowledge and experiences). Today on that path you will need much more money than in the past. So, for traveling the world today, I would have always chosen just the backpack route, it is cheaper than any boat and gives you even greater freedom. Although it still sounds like ultimate adventure and it is compelling, the cultural environment in which we would like to do that is fairly different. This is just my current view on it, it is not that I was not thinking of it and exploring it, and it does not mean that it will not change in time.

About the winter, one good comment: "The liveaboards I know here just grit their teeth and endure it, waiting for spring". I have that same feeling while "dirt dwelling" as you named it, but the option of heading south is related to job. Staying fit during the winter is mind challenge, being liveabord or "dirt dweller".

 

[sunchaser]

The female voices on this subject remain silent.

 

[OldDan1943]

Small boats are not noted for their insulation.
Summer time, the A/C can do a pretty good job of cooling the boat provided you put in compartment fans to help stir up the air.
Winter time, even with compartment fans.... helping the reverse cycle you will be at the very least chilly.... wear socks and a sweater. Plan on supplementing the heat with one or two additional portable heaters.
I am not sure how those, for example in the Boston area, can do a winter as a live aboard. I applaud their stamina and resolve.
When we have a cold snap in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area, I feel more sorry for the tourists. They spend the big bucks, coming down the the northern climes and hotel rooms. But then, maybe they dont realize it it cold here. We in FL turn into wimps after a few years. SMILE

 

[Donsan]

The female voices on this subject remain silent.

Do we have any who cohabitated on 30 foot boat?

 

[South of Heaven]

Small boats are not noted for their insulation.
Summer time, the A/C can do a pretty good job of cooling the boat provided you put in compartment fans to help stir up the air.
Winter time, even with compartment fans.... helping the reverse cycle you will be at the very least chilly.... wear socks and a sweater. Plan on supplementing the heat with one or two additional portable heaters.
I am not sure how those, for example in the Boston area, can do a winter as a live aboard. I applaud their stamina and resolve.
When we have a cold snap in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area, I feel more sorry for the tourists. They spend the big bucks, coming down the the northern climes and hotel rooms. But then, maybe they dont realize it it cold here. We in FL turn into wimps after a few years. SMILE

Dan, totally agree. My boat has minimal insulation. I learned that last year when I didn't get hauled out for the winter until late November (it starts getting cold in Boston after Thanksgiving).

There are many semi-permanent and non permanent options insulation options that I've been researching. I'm leaning towards the latter. The easiest thing is to install a thin layer of plastic over all the windows. Single pane windows are notorious for losing heat so adding another layer will add a "dead air space" to slow the process down. Very inexpensive and easy to do. There are many different brands and types.

The other non-permanent option is to install a layer of weather foam with a gummy back (not a sticky back) to any area of the interior bulkhead that is exposed. My Vberth and head come to mind. I will probably cut some pieces for those areas. I'm probably not gonna do the salon or galley. I think the window winter treatments will be sufficient.

Then there are more substantial permanent and semi-permanent insulation options. I don't wanna go too crazy with insulating yet because I'm hopeful that my easy DIY options will be adequate. If they are NOT then I will most certainly beef up my line of defense. Lol


As to the Boston liveaboard point, there is a fairly large liveaboard community at Constitution Marina in Boston. Yes, all winter! Most are sailors but there are power boats as well. My marina has a much smaller winter community but I did see about 10-15 boats there over the winter.

Here's a little excerpt I found from Constitution.

https://constitutionmarina.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/LiveaboardGuidelines.pdf

 

[OldDan1943]

It requirements seem reasonable and minimal.
I wonder what the sanitary 'pumpout special adapter' looks like.

 

[foggysail]

I would never, ever under any circumstances elect to live on my 40’ Silverton. Our boat is our toy. We also are in the north east where zero degree days do happen, often during winters and of course snow.

It takes a large boat to enjoy comforts of a live aboard. Now can one live aboard in a smaller boat? Sure! Some people even live in tents although many not by choice.

Foggy (in response to the THT thread): I have zero issues with dissenting responses or counter viewpoints but I DO have an issue with condescending/rude remarks. As you said, most folks that replied were against it. That's fine! But I felt that your responses were like, "You're an idiot for doing that" or "who the hell would wanna do that?". Those type of responses add absolutely nothing to the discussion. And then further more on this thread (Trawler Forum) you were heading down the same path IMO! That's why I posted what I posted. An attack?? NO. More like someone just trying to level the playing field.

To post 33 (THT): I didn't respond to his post because it hardly even applied to my marina. We HAVE water (heated pipes). We HAVE winter pumpouts (although I would probably be using the marina facilities more in the winter). And so on, and so on. Not every marina is the same. It's silly to make a blanket statement like that and assume every marina has the same level of facilities/services.

To post 28 (THT): I stand by what I said.

You read too much into what I posted. TIME TO PUT YOUR BIG BOY PANTS ON AND GROW UP.

 

[denverd0n]

I am trying to figure out why a poster on here is all upset about posts from another forum. Note to anyone who does not realize it: this is NOT "The Hull Truth." If you have a problem with posts on another forum, you should be discussing it over on THAT forum!

And now back to your regularly scheduled thread...

 

[MurrayM]

Here's a Michael Kasten 30 footer designed for Real Hairy Chested cruising:

This design has been created for Cape Horn veteran Georgs Kolesnikovs as the ideal power cruiser under 30 feet LOA, capable of voyaging anywhere on the World's oceans. As Georgs has said, "I don't need to go fool around at the Horn again, but I might like to see Canada's Northwest Passage.

30' Buster - Kasten Marine Design

 

[Vashon_Trawler]

We in FL turn into wimps after a few years. SMILE

I despise the cold and have no tolerance for it, but we Floridians are pretty hardy people when it comes to heat. I love listening to the tourists complain about Florida summers. I was visiting Virginia (Williamsburg) last summer for a family vacation. My wife and I were rather amused by the heat advisory. We were one of a handful of people eating outside at the restaurants and walked around enjoying the weather. A few years back, we also experienced a heat advisory in Chicago. It was Florida spring to us!

 

[JLD]

To the OP, I would suggest that if you plan on any extended cruising on your boat, perhaps it would be worthwhile to replace some of the existing cockpit canvas with an enclosure with screens and polycarbonate (or some other clear windows).

Jim

 

[OldDan1943]

Here's a Michael Kasten 30 footer designed for Real Hairy Chested cruising:

30' Buster - Kasten Marine Design

With this design, you wont be going anywhere fast but, you can go a long way.

Oh if I were 10 years younger and had the life expectancy for a build. 32ft might have to grow to a bit longer for my liking.
Granted, a few changes needed, for me. I did not see a mention of a small generator, A/C nor house batteries and starting battery. W/O a reverse cycle A/C this is not a boat for warmer climes. I'd like hydraulic stabilizers too.

I'd still like a walk-through so as to visualize changes.
The boat would be a notable visitor to any marina.

 

[Nidza]

Here's a Michael Kasten 30 footer designed for Real Hairy Chested cruising:



30' Buster - Kasten Marine Design

Good one!

To the OP, I would suggest that if you plan on any extended cruising on your boat, perhaps it would be worthwhile to replace some of the existing cockpit canvas with an enclosure with screens and polycarbonate (or some other clear windows).

Jim

Could you please explain what exactly did you mean? You mean to add windows on the canvas so I can see through during bad weather? I have them on the stern side of canvas, I do agree that some more on sides would be better, but when I was planing the canvas for the first time I was concerned about the shorter lasting period of canvas windows so I did it this way, but I do agree, more windows are needed for better visibility during bad weather sailing. You have confused me with polycarbonate, are you talking about hard top?

 

[Nidza]

I despise the cold and have no tolerance for it, but we Floridians are pretty hardy people when it comes to heat. I love listening to the tourists complain about Florida summers. I was visiting Virginia (Williamsburg) last summer for a family vacation. My wife and I were rather amused by the heat advisory. We were one of a handful of people eating outside at the restaurants and walked around enjoying the weather. A few years back, we also experienced a heat advisory in Chicago. It was Florida spring to us!

I am totally with you on that one, always outside and no hot that is too hot.

 

[FF]

"We want/need recliners to be comfortable but then again we are in our mid sixties so our situation is different than yours"

Regardless of boaters age any live aboard MUST have a comfortable place to sit.

Sometimes it snows or rains for a week!

Our 90/90 is 33LOA 28 LWL and was fine liveaboard while bride knitted.

Now she is weaver and we are dirt house bound, but older with less desire to cruise.