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Old 09-15-2011, 12:29 PM   #21
JRO
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RE: City water connected to boat

The 12v pump is not supposed to be on if "my boat" is on city water pressure... Per my boats owners manual. It says the water pressure can get too high for the connections and line if both pressures are active. I have had the city pressure and pump pressure on at the same time and YES, the pressure of the system is much greater than when just either one is on so, for me, it's one or the other.
I'm not a clean water nut... Maybe I should be. I'm still alive. 90% of the time I'm on unfiltered city water. I turn the pressure off if I'm going to be away from the boat more than a couple of days. I use the tanks when the temperate drops near freezing and to check for leaks.
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Old 09-15-2011, 03:29 PM   #22
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RE: City water connected to boat

Thanks FF, I plan to have and use a water maker when out out the states. With the changes going on with them, that will be one of the last things I pick up. Prices keep coming down and systems seem to keep improving.

Thanks
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Old 10-16-2011, 07:43 AM   #23
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RE: City water connected to boat

I recently bought a 44 ft ulfstar, and I want to sanitize the water tanks. I know what to use, I just don't know the best way to flush the tanks. My wife and I have lived aboard an old sailboat for 12 years, in Everett Wa. I knew the boat well, but this is a new system for us.
Any help would be appreciated
Larry
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:25 AM   #24
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RE: City water connected to boat

If I wanted to flush out Penny Lane, I'd run some water through the system by opening the taps and showers for 10 or 15 minutes each.* If I wanted to change the water in the tank more than once, I'd disconnect the output hose and let the water run into the bilge and let the bilge pump instead of the FW pump do the work.* You need a clear run from the tank to the bilge pump and an oil free bilge for this.*

We found this would work for us when we had a line break at the tank output. 200 Gallons of water cleaned out the bilge and went overboard in short order.

cheers

*
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Old 10-17-2011, 04:37 AM   #25
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RE: City water connected to boat

My FW tanks are 160 gallons each, so when I sanitize them I pump the bleach water overboard with a 110v portable pump I got at Home Depot. Just put the suction hose in through the tank top.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:38 AM   #26
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RE: City water connected to boat

Quote:
Sea Wind wrote:
I recently bought a 44 ft ulfstar, and I want to sanitize the water tanks. I know what to use, I just don't know the best way to flush the tanks. My wife and I have lived aboard an old sailboat for 12 years, in Everett Wa. I knew the boat well, but this is a new system for us.
Any help would be appreciated
Larry
Sea Wind
*

Larry, This is the process we have used for years. It is from a book by Peggy Hall, the "Headmistress". It has kept our tanks clean a trouble free for years. Chuck

*

Title: Recommission the system at least annually
By Peggy Hall

"This is all it takes to keep onboard water safe, and tasting/smelling as good as any that comes out of faucets on land: Fresh water system problems--foul odor or taste--are typically caused by allowing water to stagnate in the system. Although most people think only in terms of the tank, the plumbing is actually the source of most foul water, because the molds, mildew, fungi and bacteria which cause it thrive in damp dark places, not under water.

Many peopleand even some boat manufacturersbelieve that keeping the tanks empty reduce the problem, but an empty water tank only provides another damp dark home for those critters.** There are all kinds of products sold that claim to keep onboard water fresh, but all thats really necessary is an annual or in especially warm climates, semi-annual recommissioning of the entire systemtank and plumbing.

The following recommendations conform to section 10.8 in the A-1 192 code covering electrical, plumbing, and heating of recreational vehicles. The solution is approved and recommended by competent health officials.* It may be used in a new system a used one that has not been used for a period of time, or one that may have been contaminated. Before beginning, turn off hot water heater at the breaker; do not turn it on again until the entire recommissioning is complete.* Icemakers should be left running to allow cleaning out of the water feed line; however the first two buckets of icethe bucket generated during recommissioning and the first bucketful afterward--should be discarded.

1. Prepare a chlorine solution using one gallon of water and 1/2 cup (4 oz) Clorox or Purex household bleach (5% sodium Hypochlorite solution ). With tank empty, pour chlorine solution into tank. Use one gallon of solution for each 5 gallons of tank capacity.
2. Complete filling of tank with fresh water. Open each faucet and drain cock until air has been released and the entire system is filled.* Do not turn off the pump; it must remain on to keep the system pressurized and the solution in the lines
3. Allow to stand for at least three hours, but no longer than 24 hours. 4. Drain through every faucet on the boat (and if you haven't done this in a while, it's a good idea to remove any diffusion screens from the faucets, because what's likely to come out will clog them). Fill the tank again with fresh water only, drain again through every faucet on the boat.
5. To remove excess chlorine taste or odor which might remain, prepare a solution of one quart white vinegar to five gallons water and allow this solution to agitate it tank for several days by vehicle motion.
6. Drain tank again through every faucet, and flush the lines again by fill the tank 1/4-1/2 full and again flushing with potable water.

People have expressed concern about using this method to recommission aluminum tanks. While bleach (chlorine) IS corrosive, its effects are cumulative.* So the effect of an annual or semi-annual "shock treatment" is negligible compared to the cumulative effect of holding chlorinated city water in the tank for years. Nevertheless, it's a good idea to mix the total amount of bleach in a few gallons of water before putting it into either a stainless or aluminum tank. People have also expressed concern about the potential damage to rubber and neoprene water pump parts. Againthe cumulative effect of carrying chlorinated water is far more damaging over time than the occasional shock treatment. And its that cumulative effect that makes it a VERY bad idea to add a little bleach to each fill.* Not only does it damage the system, but unless you add enough to make your water taste and smell like a laundry, its not enough to do any good.* Even if it were, any purifying properties in chlorine evaporate within 24 hours, leaving behind only the corrosive properties.

An annual or semi-annual recommissioning according to the above directions is all that should be necessary to keep your water tasting and smelling as good as anything that comes out of any faucet on land.* If you need to improve on that, install a water filter. Just remember that a filter is not a substitute for cleaning out the system, and that filters require regular inspection and cleaning or replacement. To keep the water system cleaner longer, use your fresh water...keep water flowing through system. The molds, fungi, and bacteria only start to grow in hoses that aren't being used.

Before filling the tank each time, always let the dock water run for at least 15 minutes first...the same critters that like the lines on your boat LOVE the dock supply line and your hose that sit in the warm sun, and you certainly don't want to transfer water that's been sitting in the dock supply line to your boat's system. So let the water run long enough to flush out all the water that's been standing in them so that what goes into your boat is coming straight from the water main.
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Old 10-17-2011, 08:55 AM   #27
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RE: City water connected to boat

THANKS........

this kind of quality reply's are the reason that *I check these forums.
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Old 10-17-2011, 09:18 AM   #28
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RE: City water connected to boat

Captn Chuck.* Thanks!**Peggy Hall's recommissioning article on water system is most conclusive I've ever read.* It's recorded into my "TollyPidia" folder!*- Art*
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Old 10-18-2011, 08:50 PM   #29
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RE: City water connected to boat

Captn Chuck,
Thanks, I agree with Art, that article is very informative. I will give it a try.

Thnks to all of you that responded, they are all good advice.
Larry
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Old 10-23-2011, 11:49 AM   #30
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RE: City water connected to boat

Quote:
Willy wrote:
Ten years as a live a board with the same old sure flow pump. I have had to clean the preasure sensor a couple of times but it seems to still be going strong.*

*Didn't know the pressure sensors could be "cleaned". How do you do that?
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Old 10-24-2011, 02:07 PM   #31
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RE: City water connected to boat

Quote:
Willy wrote:
The presure sensor is attached to the pump. Usualy with two screws. It can be replaced.
But if you dig a bit you will find its activated by a flexable rubber gasket kinda deal. The gasket has a very small hole in it that slows the water flow through it. Slowing the reaction of the water pressure to the switch.
From time to time I find these little water pumps will surge or not work at all if that little hole is plugged or partialy blocked. But its attached to the pump not the switch thats removeable.

Oh my written word is not so good.
Any one get the drift of that ?

So - Willy*

That's interesting to learn, Thanks!*

Heres a water pump item you may understand way better than me.* Before hearing your input I just figured our water pump was simply breaking down and would soon need replacement.* But, maybe not!

Our water pump will sometimes work perfect, in that you can leave the switch on and as long as no faucet is on there is no surge (when using a faucet it always supplies good pressure). Other times we have to turn the switch off because even without a faucet on the pump keeps giving an intermittent surge that lasts about a second each time; sometimes the one second surge is spaced about 30 seconds apart and sometimes as long as several minutes or even longer apart.* Am I correct from reading your input that I may be able to simply disassemble the pump and either clean or replace its flexible rubber gasket... or even replace the whole pressure switch if needed?

Your water pump wisdom is much appreciated! - Art
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Old 10-25-2011, 05:05 AM   #32
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City water connected to boat

Your system symptoms are that of a tiny leak ...* have you done a thoro check?* Every connection throughut the boat including the city water inlet?* Not trying to insult your intelligence but your symptoms* fit a dripping leak as much as anything.

Could be a pressure switch but if it does it after many hours it's unlikely.* Without a leak, the pressure would eventually peak and it's doubtful that it's the pressure switch...at that point if you are positive it's NOT a leak any place else...my gruess is there is some bypass internal to the pump and it may need replacing in the near future.


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 25th of October 2011 05:06:14 AM
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Old 10-25-2011, 06:18 AM   #33
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RE: City water connected to boat

Quote:
psneeld wrote:
Your system symptoms are that of a tiny leak ...* have you done a thoro check?* Every connection throughut the boat including the city water inlet?* Not trying to insult your intelligence but your symptoms* fit a dripping leak as much as anything.

Could be a pressure switch but if it does it after many hours it's unlikely.* Without a leak, the pressure would eventually peak and it's doubtful that it's the pressure switch...at that point if you are positive it's NOT a leak any place else...my gruess is there is some bypass internal to the pump and it may need replacing in the near future.
Psneeld More than once I checked everywhere for leak, none located.* Not to insult your intelligence, but don't forget, I mentioned on my previous post that sometimes the one second surge occurs back to back not too many seconds apart, sometimes well*over a minute, and sometimes longer... and sometimes not at all.* That would mean if it were a leak it would be an often varying ratio leak seeing as the rapidity of the one second bursts (always one second bursts) can alter in time span from one minute to the next.* Internal bypass has been my guess too, but, what Willy mentioned interested me and therefore I figured Id inquire from a boat owner whod taken the time to know more about water-pressure pumps internals than me; internal portions of pressure-water pump is not previously my forte.* Usually on incidental a parts I simply R&R; since reading Willys post it will be interesting to tear into one and see what makes it tick!* Ill also purchase a spare to keep aboard, just in case! - Art
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:07 AM   #34
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City water connected to boat

Not really on the leak...leaks aren't always consistent and the pressure sensor isn't precise so the cycling of the pump could be random.* I have lived aboard full time over 10 years and long stretches other times and I can vouch for tiny leaks that drive you crazy. And I've had those pumps all apart to and have transferred pumps to other motors, etc, etc....

If no leak...then the only other answer I can think of would be bypass....other wise the pressure would just keep building.

Rather than keep a spare...I plan to plumb one fore supply one aft supply with an interconnect...that way both are ready to go and not just sitting and rotting and will only see*half the normal cycles day to day.* Plus it's ready for troubleshooting like you have in case I suspect a hard to see leak.



-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 25th of October 2011 09:09:01 AM


-- Edited by psneeld on Tuesday 25th of October 2011 09:12:34 AM
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Old 10-25-2011, 09:34 AM   #35
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City water connected to boat

Quote:
psneeld wrote:
Not really on the leak...leaks aren't always consistent and the pressure sensor isn't precise so the cycling of the pump could be random.* I have lived aboard full time over 10 years and long stretches other times and I can vouch for tiny leaks that drive you crazy. And I've had those pumps all apart to and have transferred pumps to other motors, etc, etc....

If no leak...then the only other answer I can think of would be bypass....other wise the pressure would just keep building.

Rather than keep a spare...I plan to plumb one fore supply one aft supply with an interconnect...that way both are ready to go and not just sitting and rotting and will only see*half the normal cycles day to day.* Plus it's ready for troubleshooting like you have in case I suspect a hard to see leak.
Scott - Good input, thanks, I'll keep that in mind!* I don't live aboard.* We keep our Tolly for fun and relaxation in warm freshwater, 100 miles door to door from our SF Bay Area home.* Per year, we*average 14 weekends (3 to 5 days each) cruising and on the hook.* So... the minor problem with our water pump that has occurred for the last several cruises posesd no big prob.* I will take all that has been mentioned into account as I decide what to do.* Will also purchase a new one before taking old pump apart, if I do tear it appart... just in case! - Cheers, Art


-- Edited by Art on Tuesday 25th of October 2011 09:37:18 AM
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Old 10-25-2011, 10:51 AM   #36
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RE: City water connected to boat

Quote:
Willy wrote:
Art

This link if it works shows a picture of parts behind the removable preasure switch. In your pump they may be a bit different but the idea will be the same. The have the hole in the diaphram in the pics is yellow. Thats what gets clogged.

http://www.jfoakes.com/images/shurflo_94-237-05.jpg

What you describe could be a clogged diaphram. But usualy the pump will also be slow to react when a faucet is open or opened.

Any way the guts behind the preasure switch are easy to check / clean if need be.

Just be carefull when you reinstall the parts. Make sure they are lined up or you can scar or deform them. Carefull not to use to much torque when putting the screws back into the plastic housing.

Willy
*Willy - You're a champ!* Thanks!!* I see the diaphram and will conduct repairs as available... Cheers! Art
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