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Old 09-19-2014, 01:37 PM   #21
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Hmmm....sounds like Chinese math!
sorry..playing with a bunch of numbers..

but the average reader got the gist of what I was saying hopefully...

If not...maybe they shouldn't run a boat anyhow...
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Old 09-19-2014, 01:57 PM   #22
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They really do have a lot of space aboard, and the big old DD's wont be too much of issue if you aren't often going anywhere. Eventually you could get rid of them, and install a 300HP single and just cruise at displacement speeds. In the process you would liberate a heap of space for a workshop/man cave.
You forgot to insert a "just kidding" emoticon there. That may be one of the single worst ideas I have heard yet, it has to be a joke. "How to take a $150,000 boat, invest $40,000 in it and turn it into a $20,000 boat!" Those old Detroits are old because they will take you anywhere your fuel capacity will accommodate: don't know much about them, do you?

I'll expand on Marty's astute post; there are two types of liveaboards. I define "liveaboard" as someone for whom the boat is their only domicile. There are people who only use the boat for a house and virtually never use it as a boat. Then there are those (as we were for years) who cruise the boat from place to place, never staying somewhere more than a month or three. A proper boat for the latter is going to be more expensive upfront than the same boat for the former, due to the need for seaworthiness and reliable systems. Of course the miles at sea will add to the costs of feeding and in some cases maintaining those systems (as merely sitting dormant and unmaintained can kill things over time too) .
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:09 PM   #23
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Or 8 months and then cruise 3000 miles or so the other 4 months...

There are no absolutes in boating....every choice needs to be a conscious one and one that meets your plan...

The problem with life is so many never stick to their plan whether their choice or some interfering influence.

Some people are able to forge a plan and stick with it ( the rarity) but then their choices are simpler as they tend to be either yes or no.

Being on the West Coast does require a boat that if you leave your present place and venture forth into the ocean...it's a good idea to buy something you think you can cruise comfortably (safely) on and still live with your schedule. In other words...if I lived on the west coast...my choices of a part time liveaboard/other time cruiser would be far less than my options where the ICW makes choices way more simple.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:12 PM   #24
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Greetings,
Mr. D. "...sounds like Chinese math!" Knowing the Chinese as I do, I don't think any one of them would ever make a math mistake PARTICULARLY where money is involved.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:14 PM   #25
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Thanks psneeld. My question was more metaphorical. I don't intend to make 1000nm a year but I also don't like making selections in the extreme ends. Meaning, buying a liveaboard only boat that cannot go out in the ocean even when necessary would not be a good buy for me, simply because it will limit its target audience when I may want to sell it. I am sure everyone will have widely different opinions on the subject but in general I tend to stay in gray rather than going for a pure black or white. So while space is a primary concern, I also would not want a boat that is designed just to stay on the dock and cannot do anything else. Choices I guess are very subjective.

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Let's see ....1000 miles at 1 nm/gallon is 1000 gallons at $5/gallon is $5,000

1000 miles at 4 nm/gallon is 250 gallons at $5/gallon is $1000

Can you absorb $4000/year for fuel to buy a boat that's possibly $50,000 less than other alternatives????

Sure there's endless possibilities...my example is just one I had to decide for myself...no one else can possibly say it could be better or worse without pages of possible responses.

As far as liveaboard...NEVER listen to someone that isn't or hasn't for many years. I have lived aboard 3 different boats for over a decade now and everyone could be gotten underway in less than an hour...to survive a hurricane???...maybe not but gotten underway to move from port to port in reasonable weather.

It just depends on what your attitude and seamanship skills are.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:15 PM   #26
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Being on the West Coast does require a boat that if you leave your present place and venture forth into the ocean...it's a good idea to buy something you think you can cruise comfortably (safely) on and still live with your schedule. In other words...if I lived on the west coast...my choices of a part time liveaboard/other time cruiser would be far less than my options where the ICW makes choices way more simple.
So true. On the east coast there are ICW boats and offshore boats. On the west coast, just offshore. Now one exception is the Puget Sound area where there are boats that never go out to sea. Well, you can do the same in the Columbia River and I guess you could in the bay area. Just remain inside.

I would also say that if you're going to get a boat not capable of cruising comfortably on the west coast, you should get a great bargain on it and be aware that it's resale value is going to be very low.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:17 PM   #27
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Completely agree.

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I would also say that if you're going to get a boat not capable of cruising comfortably on the west coast, you should get a great bargain on it and be aware that it's resale value is going to be very low.
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Old 09-19-2014, 02:20 PM   #28
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Thanks all, this has been e very useful thread. Going through suggestions one by one and trying to increase my understanding.

Hatteras look good indeed but the ones in good shape seem to be a bit above my intended budget.

So far, Bayliner 4788s particularly caught my attention. Even though a little smaller than what I had thought initially, it seems to be offering a good compromise between space/price/cruising ability and a re-sale value.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:20 PM   #29
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my vote is for something like a 44' Nauticat motor sailor... amazing room and you can sail it too.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:32 PM   #30
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The large wood desk loaded with electronics seems incompatible with most boats folks would want to take on 1000 mo offshore passages unless you get into much large boats. Probably beyond your price.
The lifestyle you propose sounds likes houseboat but the trips sound like a sailboat.
For now your setup sounds just right but moving it afloat without compromise is probably not do able.
Why anyone would want to adopt a pair of diesels and all the boat systems to mostly live tied up boggles the mind.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:40 PM   #31
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CPseudonym, thanks for pointing out Chris Crafts, some really good for what I have in mind.

That said, I see they are now fairly old boats, even the relatively newer ones are from mid 80s. If I decide to buy one of those at $200k price range, should I be concerned about excessive maintenance costs or a very low resale value down the road? If not, I should definitely give this a serious consideration.

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That's great news but I would try to nail that down in writing. Taking the slip and paying for it in advance of the purchase if needed.

We have considered buying a boat in Santa Cruz we really don't like just for a slip in the harbor. Some areas are crazy around here.

Edit: There's a couple of older fiberglass 50ish foot Chris Crafts in the area that may work well for both your needs and budget.
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Old 09-19-2014, 03:48 PM   #32
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Thanks Bayview, your point is spot on and well understood.

I started my search with house boats with the same logic but it becomes quickly clear that new house boats in Bay Area are a non-starter, which took me to trawlers.

My goal is not cruising but I also don't see it as a wise expense to buy something that can't practically move when necessary. If one day I decide to move somewhere else like Seattle or South California or maybe even the east coast, I would want to take the boat with me as my mobile home. As others have pointed out, the moment you decide to move out of SF Bay, you need to be ocean capable or you are stuck within the Bay. Also the resale value would concern me if the cruising ability of the boat is well below average. I am not expecting this to be an investment to gain value but at least I am hoping to keep the depreciation at a minimum.

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The large wood desk loaded with electronics seems incompatible with most boats folks would want to take on 1000 mo offshore passages unless you get into much large boats. Probably beyond your price.
The lifestyle you propose sounds likes houseboat but the trips sound like a sailboat.
For now your setup sounds just right but moving it afloat without compromise is probably not do able.
Why anyone would want to adopt a pair of diesels and all the boat systems to mostly live tied up boggles the mind.
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:28 PM   #33
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IMO buying a boatforsomething you might do is an often made mistake.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:46 PM   #34
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CPseudonym, thanks for pointing out Chris Crafts, some really good for what I have in mind.

That said, I see they are now fairly old boats, even the relatively newer ones are from mid 80s. If I decide to buy one of those at $200k price range, should I be concerned about excessive maintenance costs or a very low resale value down the road? If not, I should definitely give this a serious consideration.

Short answer is if you take care of it, no. If you let it go, yes.

Hatteras, Chris Craft, Bayliner/Meridian, DeFever and many others are all decent marquis, what you're buying is the previous owners level of care. I've seen fantastic examples of all at good value prices, have also seen all as complete dogs darn near ready to drag out of the water and be scrapped.

I've heard a few different owners of large Hatt's caution that the systems tend to be more complex on them than others. After boarding a couple I tend to agree in general terms with that sentiment. The Bayliners I've been aboard tend to have systems that are less complicated, no 32 volt dc system is one difference. Least complicated of the 3 are the older still Chris Craft I've been aboard. The interiors on all three are nice and functional with Bayliner being the least traditional. I haven't been aboard a DeFever so will not comment beyond saying their owners love them and they look stunning to my eye.

Probably shoulda sent this as a private message but I'm a big boy and have my asbestos underwear on
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:56 PM   #35
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Applause to Tenedos

As a newcomer posting to ask for opinions, he has listened and responded. Seems natural but look how many post and then disappear. And he has thanked persons for their responses. That's the way you get responses and assistance and a model for new members.

Thank you.
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Old 09-19-2014, 05:59 PM   #36
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I think that any of the boats that CPseudonym mentioned will meet the OP's needs: a capable cruiser, not a dock queen, lots of room, well built.

And as BandB just noted, the OP has been very responsive to feedback. Often this isn't the case and the thread deteriorates to an internal debate, usually far flung from the OP's original question.

So my advice to the OP is togo out and look at them and report back what you have found.

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Old 09-19-2014, 06:04 PM   #37
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A few more not to overlook

Grand Banks, Fleming.

American Tug. Nordic Tug.

KK.

As a liveaboard, Grand Banks really has some nice layouts with good interior and deck space. The older ones tend to be smaller and so it's difficult to find the 50 footers.
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Old 09-19-2014, 06:23 PM   #38
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Thank you all. I have more than enough to research for a starter. Now time to make a shortlist and start seeing these boats firsthand! I will report back, probably with more questions once I have a better sense

Once again, thanks, this has been most helpful.

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Grand Banks, Fleming.

American Tug. Nordic Tug.

KK.

As a liveaboard, Grand Banks really has some nice layouts with good interior and deck space. The older ones tend to be smaller and so it's difficult to find the 50 footers.
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:58 PM   #39
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Most of the old marques have bottomed on their depreciation slide. The values still bounce around because of the quality of the systems. So, if you keep up the maintenance you wont see a drop in the boats value. But you probably wont see an increase in value for what you've spent either.

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You forgot to insert a "just kidding" emoticon there. That may be one of the single worst ideas I have heard yet, it has to be a joke. "How to take a $150,000 boat, invest $40,000 in it and turn it into a $20,000 boat!"
Sorry George, yes it was tongue in cheek!
I'll take that $20k boat though!
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:27 PM   #40
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OK - So here's my input!

Find a good condition 48’ Tollycraft: 1973 to 1991 +/-. Do not be afraid to make an offer that pleases you; this is a buyers’ market… especially in the “classic” used boat arena. Tolly boats are bullet proof well built craft, laid out nicely, fairly inexpensive to operate, extremely livable and sea worthy… while they hold their value – if you purchase at the correct price. Feel I must warn you… I am addicted to Tolly’s. Many other makes of boats mentioned here are also really fine crafts. But, IMHO, after decades around boats on many levels, regarding decade old classics in 2014 market… Well looked after Tollycraft boats top the list!

Some ad links on Yachtworld. Also check out CL for Seattle.

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