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Old 05-13-2012, 05:59 AM   #21
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There is much in the way of good advice here. My Admiral and I just spent a year looking for a larger boat to extend our life on the water. Started with some misconceived ideas and learned a great deal on the way. If I may, here are some suggestions:

1) First, because of the market, at the price you are talking include all boats in your search up to $60K at least. This is still a buyers market and many sellers are willing to work with you.
2) Forget about manufacturers and models. Look at everything in the price range that you have set. Each and every time you look at a boat make a note of the things you like and the things you don't. More the things you don't. On these do not compromise. Yachtworld.com has already been mentioned. This is your number one best source for looking at boats and determining what you like and finding out what is for sale. Also, Craigslist, BoatShed and Boat Trader.
3) As this will be a project boat and a live a board, imagine living on board when you view these boats. Don't picture yourself BBQ'ing and relaxing on the hook in some beautiful cove. Imagine the problems. If there sufficient storage, where will you put your cloths. Do you wear dress work cloths then you need to hang them and iron. What about laundry. If you are going to cook, you need counter space. Too many boats are not designed for long term stays. Putting up with inconvienences for a weekend, week or even a month of cruising is one thing. Putting up with them for years is a very different thing.
4) As you live in the PNW there is little time without dampness or rain, You need to consider where you will store things outside and if you intend to use the space outdoors to extend your living space. If so, then you need an enclosure. If a trawler, can you access it without going outside or must you go into the elements to get there. That may be ok but you need to decide what you want.

When we were looking we had to consider we have a Golden Retriever. She can;t climb a ladder to get on a high deck boat such as some aft cabins. Climbing up a single step on the transom off of a narrow swim deck was not a feature the Admiral wanted. We looked at many boats, we went round and round over a year and a half.

This was our adventure. Every weekend traveling to look at another boat. We must have spent a fortune on gas, eating out and motel rooms. But in the end we feel it was well worth it. I hope that this helps. I don't mean to make this sound negative. But one of the hardest things some people have trouble doing is taking off the Rose colored glasses and seeing what daily life can be.

Good luck in your search. We loved looking at all those boats and more so finding the right one. Which by the way ended up not being the style we originally thought we would end up with.
These 2 points in my view are in what makes this decision a vicious cycle....but is the standard for good advice for buying a boat.

For me...an experienced liveaboard...I pretty much knew what I would and would not tolerate and how to skip to the must have/absolutely won't have.

And there's the trick...yes you can be comfortable on a small boat...heck after 4 military survival schools they taught me to be comfortable in a snow cave for days...

There are trade offs...but at some point you'll have to look in a mirror and draw a line through everything and it will come down to a few big points and your available money (which a sizeable chunk MAY VERY WELL go to fixing and outfitting)....
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:31 AM   #22
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Complexity coats silly money , not boat size.

A simple 35 fter is no cheaper to keep than a simple 50 fter , besides dockage fees.

KISS is king , and there frequently is a far less costly method to do a requirement (like central heat) than found in boat boatiques.

The space and volume of a boat can not be changed (unless you go 3-4 stories higher) but the equippment can be rationalized (toss yacht crap OB) at low cost.

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Old 05-13-2012, 06:58 AM   #23
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Complexity coats silly money , not boat size.

A simple 35 fter is no cheaper to keep than a simple 50 fter , besides dockage fees.

KISS is king , and there frequently is a far less costly method to do a requirement (like central heat) than found in boat boatiques.

The space and volume of a boat can not be changed (unless you go 3-4 stories higher) but the equippment can be rationalized (toss yacht crap OB) at low cost.

FF
What's the answer? I'm game unless you are talking wick oil stoves...
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:32 AM   #24
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What's the answer? I'm game unless you are talking wick oil stoves...
2 1/2 ton heat pump...
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Old 05-13-2012, 09:18 AM   #25
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What's the answer? I'm game unless you are talking wick oil stoves...
Oil filled heater to keep the ambient temps up when it's really chilly and a diesel heater for the in betweens.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:23 AM   #26
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A good resourse is Northwest Yatching which is free at most marine stores that list all the broker boat with prices. Trawler Fest is next weekend at Anacortes which is good to go on and compare. Summer is not a good time to buy a PW boat. Winter time is best.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:51 AM   #27
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As stated you can live on less than you think. We lived on our 32 Bayliner with a Golden Retriever for 1.5 years.

Keeping warm wasn't too bad until the marina froze over. Used electric heat. But the problem was the moisture. We made a lot of water inside. Part of this was due to the hull construction with very little thickness or insulation. Part due to the type of heat that did nothing to help dry the air. We were actually generating a cup of water per day in each of the three V-berth storage compartments and another under the galley counter.

Our new boat, after a winter is on the other side of the coin. Not a bit of moisture. Better insulated hull and diesel hydronic heat. The heat did more than just keep us warm and not use up the limited 30 amp electrical service. The hoses that carry the heated solution throughout the boat to the registers run through the bilge, cabinets and storage spaces. That added enough warmed to keep those spaces dry. The air from the radiators also seem to help.

I would say that heating a boat is not the question. Keeping the boat dry is of more of a concern for comfort. At least that is my opinion.
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:26 PM   #28
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I'm waiting for FF's "cheap" non-marine suggestion....otherwise I may look harder at the Hurricane ITR
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Old 05-13-2012, 11:49 PM   #29
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Anybody going to be at Trawler Fest in Anacortes on Saturday the 19th? If so, I'll see you there...
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:44 AM   #30
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What's the answer? Heat?

Really depends on the boats compartmenting.

Simplest is the marine Dickinson or Reflex heater with gravity feed fuel.

Like most boat stuff aviliable used OUT OF SEASON , on Craigs list or???

Works sans electric for months on end.

A bit pricier is the Dickinson Pacific oil range .

In non survival areas (doesn't go below freezing for long) a modern split air cond can have a COP of 5 or 6 , so paying for electric , even at marina rates isn't bad. Till the power goes down for a week.

The really small home OIL furnaces with base board heat (Difficult to plumb in an existing boat , but far better than toe kicks) is a choice for a bigger boat.

The marine Hurricane is close to these and might be battery powered if the juice is not out for a week.

Read the AC rotary transfer switch stuff as an example of non marine choices.

A switch that requires maint or replacement (no rebuild parts are available) for a few hundred bucks , or the old RV style of 3 sockets ($10.00ea) and a $10.00 plug .

Sure it takes 20 seconds every time you switch from power pole to noisemaker. The lack of maint (hours) or need to repla$e makes my choice , pull the plug , not the yacht store choice.

This type trade off can create a simple boat that doesn't eat boat bucks just sitting in a marina dieing.

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Old 05-14-2012, 07:04 AM   #31
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What's the answer? Heat?

Really depends on the boats compartmenting.

Simplest is the marine Dickinson or Reflex heater with gravity feed fuel.

Like most boat stuff aviliable used OUT OF SEASON , on Craigs list or???

Works sans electric for months on end.

A bit pricier is the Dickinson Pacific oil range .

In non survival areas (doesn't go below freezing for long) a modern split air cond can have a COP of 5 or 6 , so paying for electric , even at marina rates isn't bad. Till the power goes down for a week.

The really small home OIL furnaces with base board heat (Difficult to plumb in an existing boat , but far better than toe kicks) is a choice for a bigger boat.

The marine Hurricane is close to these and might be battery powered if the juice is not out for a week.

Read the AC rotary transfer switch stuff as an example of non marine choices.

A switch that requires maint or replacement (no rebuild parts are available) for a few hundred bucks , or the old RV style of 3 sockets ($10.00ea) and a $10.00 plug .

Sure it takes 20 seconds every time you switch from power pole to noisemaker. The lack of maint (hours) or need to repla$e makes my choice , pull the plug , not the yacht store choice.

This type trade off can create a simple boat that doesn't eat boat bucks just sitting in a marina dieing.

FF
I agree that there are MUCH better products and methods than our current marine business is offering in many cases.

I also agree that neanderthal can be better...especially if it only takes a second or two to manually preform something that will last over something complicated and prone to problems...like your switching method of "just plugs".

I have looked for a suitable hydronic heating system as I also like the concept of unlimited hot water and a way to practically use up diesel that is just sitting for my summer season when I'm working not cruising. The smallest, inexpensive boiler I've found is the Kumo ...but it's still 2-3x larger BTU wise than I need and I'm a little leary of the install and future surveys/insurance issues. Hate to lay out the money and install only to have the surveyor/insurance people say it's gotta go.

I may just go with the Hurricane if I can get enough positive feedback on them.

I just don't like the wick burning heater/stoves as they have a tendency to need "attention" that non-techie, non-boaters staying might turn the boat into a soot factory ...
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:44 AM   #32
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Anybody going to be at Trawler Fest in Anacortes on Saturday the 19th? If so, I'll see you there...
We will be there on the 19th. Send me a personal message and maybe we can connect.

In the PNW you want at boat that is sort of live aboard ready as most boats are not. The lack some of the basics like shelter, heat, water, sanitation, refrigeration. Thinks most newbies take for granted have limits on a boat. The marina and the dock/slip can be as important during the PNW winter as the boat as you will be relying on them. Be sure to talk to the live a boards in the marina as to what to expect and how they view treat live a boards as many marinas do not have live a board high on their priority.

While you are there be sure to walk the docks and also the YARDS, so you get an idea of the boat look like under the water line. Also go to the Live a boards sections and read the past discussion as being a live aboard in the PNW is mentioned on most of the discussions.
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Old 05-14-2012, 12:30 PM   #33
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This boat, a 1985 Bayliner 3870, is my neighbor in my Port Orchard marina. Not a trawler in the normal sense but would make a great liveaboard. I know the owner wants to get out badly and would accept a lower offer. He did recently accept an offer which he told me, was giving it away. After the potential buyer had it surveyed and hauled out he decided to walk. The survey said the boat was in excellent condition for a boat of this age.

A friend of mine is a broker for the company selling this boat. His name is Bill Marks. Check it out - Emerald Yachts (Bremerton, WA)

I have no interest in this except I know the people involved.

Ron
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #34
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Here is a link to a yachtworld search with your exact parameters....I took the liberty and assumed fiberglass on the USA for the region...

trawler Boats For Sale

Surprisingly a lot of damn nice boats in the field. The Mainship 34(MotorCruiser) dominates it followed by the Marine Trader 34. There is even a GB36 in there that needs TLC but if you have the time I am thinking you would always be ahead of the financial curve on that one.
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Old 05-14-2012, 05:37 PM   #35
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Here is a link to a yachtworld search with your exact parameters....I took the liberty and assumed fiberglass on the USA for the region...

trawler Boats For Sale
Thanks, Baker - some promising looking boats in my region.
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:12 PM   #36
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I wouldn't be too quick to rule out a houseboat.

My 28' trailerable houseboat is as simple as it gets. Small block Chevy for power, remote start Honda 3000 to run the a/c, water heater, microwave and single 1500 watt space heater...easy to keep warm because the boat is so well insulated that it has positive floatation. Stand up hot water shower. Four burner propane stove with full size oven.

Tacoma to Orca I? That's a 1/2 day run and I wouldn't hesitate with a decent forcast.

Flybridge, nice aft deck for lounging, can sleep 7 inside.

Oh, the fore and aft decks are level with most docks so my handicapped wife and dog can easily get aboard. There's transom STAIRS that fold down for swimming...my dog uses them to swim ashore and back on his own to go potty.

One More Time Around: Sailboat or Trawler

Mine is a 1972 model. If you find one, it's bound to need a lot of work, but at about 10k purchase price you'll have some left over for upgrades.

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Old 05-14-2012, 08:18 PM   #37
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I wouldn't be too quick to rule out a houseboat.

My 28' trailerable houseboat is as simple as it gets. Small block Chevy for power, remote start Honda 3000 to run the a/c, water heater, microwave and single 1500 watt space heater...easy to keep warm because the boat is so well insulated that it has positive floatation. Stand up hot water shower. Four burner propane stove with full size oven.

Tacoma to Orca I? That's a 1/2 day run and I wouldn't hesitate with a decent forcast.

Flybridge, nice aft deck for lounging, can sleep 7 inside.

Oh, the fore and aft decks are level with most docks so my handicapped wife and dog can easily get aboard. There's transom STAIRS that fold down for swimming...my dog uses them to swim ashore and back on his own to go potty.

One More Time Around: Sailboat or Trawler

Mine is a 1972 model. If you find one, it's bound to need a lot of work, but at about 10k purchase price you'll have some left over for upgrades.

You obviously didn't know you had leprosy by owning a houseoat...

Read this thread...
Sorry to bother, but I need help with IDing this boat
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #38
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And perhaps these boaters are practicing for the first non-stop circumnavigation via open boat with oars.



Kidding. ... Jeff's houseboat would be highly satisfactory in various settings, such as in the California Delta and CA's Shasta Lake/Reservoir.
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Old 05-14-2012, 10:15 PM   #39
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You obviously didn't know you had leprosy by owning a houseoat...

Read this thread...
Sorry to bother, but I need help with IDing this boat
I already have leprosy, we own a sailboat

When we are done screwing around with it we'll most likely buy a houseboat as the Ca Delta is most likely going to be our primary cruising area. There's just no substitute for square footage when it comes to entertaining.
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Old 05-14-2012, 11:09 PM   #40
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Not a damn thing wrong with that Pseudo.... It obviously works so good for you in being honest with yourself in what you want and need!!!
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