Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-23-2012, 02:36 PM   #21
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Marin

Yes I agree. Most folk palying with rec boats around the water realy have no idea just how hard it can be to get out of the water while in a marina. I can have a tough time getting back onto a dock when wearing jackets pants and PFD etc. Not an easy task some times. For some its just never going to happen.

The other deal with fixed ladders is they can be a bear to get too specialy in a river current and cold water. They sure have to be well marked to be seen not just from the dock but from the water.

So many variables can get scary just thinking about it. But the reality is that moast will find there way out one way or another. But something to think about for us pleasure cruiser IMO.

Willy
__________________
Advertisement

OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 02:59 PM   #22
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
OFB-- We have tidal currents to deal with in our marina but nothing like having to deal with a river current, particularly a big river like the Fraser. Are the docks in your marina laid out to make entering and leaving with or against the current as easy as possible?

And what do the folks who have to enter their slips down-current do? Hope reverse works real well on their boats or do they tend to back in using forward power to control their rearward slide?
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 03:10 PM   #23
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 741
Bravo Zulu, OFB!
Underway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 04:06 PM   #24
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
OFB-- We have tidal currents to deal with in our marina but nothing like having to deal with a river current, particularly a big river like the Fraser. Are the docks in your marina laid out to make entering and leaving with or against the current as easy as possible?

And what do the folks who have to enter their slips down-current do? Hope reverse works real well on their boats or do they tend to back in using forward power to control their rearward slide?
We have tide and river currents in the delta and getting into or out of a slip can be tricky at times especially so if there is a strong gusty wind blowing which we get fairly often. One must know his/her boat very well then judge the current tide wind accurately before making a move. Once u get crossed up things happen in a hurry.
Down current? Do you mean with the current flowing towards the slip entrance? You would let the current take you into the slip useing reverse to control vessel speed.
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 04:26 PM   #25
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
OFB-- We have tidal currents to deal with in our marina but nothing like having to deal with a river current, particularly a big river like the Fraser. Are the docks in your marina laid out to make entering and leaving with or against the current as easy as possible?

And what do the folks who have to enter their slips down-current do? Hope reverse works real well on their boats or do they tend to back in using forward power to control their rearward slide?

Marin on the river most slips run the direction of the current. With a few in all marinas sideways to the current. Most pleasure cruisers however and some commercial guys dont pilot there boats but instead try to drive them like cars. I actualy enjoy using the current to assist me in handeling the boat. Unlike lots of folk that insist on trying to force the vessel into unatural for the boat positions.

So most get into trouble when they get the boat sideways to a 2 to 4 knot current in confined areas. Cause they dont understand the "pavement" aka water under them is moving unlike docks that are not.

My best advise to the new bees and not like they want to listen. Is to not rush into the confined area of the marina. Play in the river current and learn to controll the boat prior to making that run to the slip or fuel dock. Just sit off a bridge guard or some visual place that lets you understand what the boat wants to do. Takes not much time.

Surfing or sailing the current I enjoy doing, in the full keel oldfishboat. Gives me good controll. But if I get the oldboat sideways things can get interesting fast. Yet that current can realy help with control of boats in the wind. Who knew .

The current here can be flowing out , in or not at all. So there is not one way fits all. So even today I still stop , understand what the boat wants to do and transfer that knowledge of handeling to the dock. Some times I have to back down the river against the current through and under the bridge guards and slip in sideways to my dock. Cause there is not enough room with a hard current to make the 180 turn infront of the marina with the oldboat. There are times folks get there boat sideways to the current and up against a dock where I just have them wait for tide change to unstick the boat.

Yet that same current can be used to hold the boat against the dock when I need.

Do not fight the river ! Work with it.

I find it easy to control a boat here but some will always find it a nightmare.
OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2012, 08:48 PM   #26
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by OFB View Post
Do not fight the river ! Work with it.

I find it easy to control a boat here but some will always find it a nightmare.
OFB- Good explanation and some good pointers I am going to try to remember. Thanks much for the post.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 01:53 AM   #27
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 16
Firstly, OFB - great job!!!

However, I must admit to being a bit baffled.

In the marina's where I learned about boat ownership etc., it was kind of a standing courtesy that whenever someone arrived, at least one or two folk would stop what they were doing and go to the arriving boat's dock to take lines/toss lines or assist in whatever way they could.
I thought this was just how it's done - and I have continued that practice after having moved to a different area. (If I see a boat coming in that is short of crew or is having issues, I will go straight to the slip and offer any assistance I can. I don't give any direction or push any ideas - I'm just there if they want a hand - or not. When the macho types decline, then I move off and enjoy the show ).

In the marina's where I "grew up" into boating, we were sailors, and there were no dock hands etc, so everyone just helped everyone else out.
I don't want to start a fight, but I have noticed that at my current marina which is mostly power boats (and my trawler), this practice of helping out and being available for each other just doesn't exist - I thought it was just rudeness, but perhaps I just got lucky by being around real boat people early on, and I learned from some true Seamen.

I am usually single handing, and I am happy to see a neighbor standing at the ready as I approach, I don't need to stroke my ego and I'll take the help rather than scrape the boat any day.
Of course, there may be some folk who can be more hindrance than help - in which case a polite "thank you, but I'd like to try it on my own - to keep my hand in" will usually work.

P.S. On the occasion where I have assisted someone who is struggling, I have never been accused of being nosey or any other negative comments - I have only been greeted with gratitude.
Gull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 09:35 AM   #28
Senior Member
 
Adelaide's Avatar
 
City: La Conner, WA
Country: USA
Vessel Model: 1983 Tung Hwa Clipper
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
While it probably would not have made any difference in the incident you described it is surprising how many marinas do not have ladders, retractable or otherwise, on the docks to aid people in getting out of the water. Squalicum Marina in Bellingham, a large marina with two basins, a commercial fishing section, and home to well over 2,000 boats has no dock ladders.

Well, tnat's not strictly true. As part of the recent replacement of the marina's two oldest docks they included the purchase of a large number of new, swimmer-deployable ladders to outfit all the docks in the marina. I'm told they are still in the warehouse, apparently waiting on "paperwork" that is required by multiple city, county, and state agencies defining how they will be mounted and granting permission to mount them.

Until someone dies like in LaConner. Gentleman fell off the dock in the middle of the night, they found him the next morning. After that, a ladder was installed in every slip.
Adelaide is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #29
Guru
 
SomeSailor's Avatar
 
City: Everett, WA
Vessel Name: Honey Badger
Vessel Model: 42' CHB Europa
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 784
I always get up and make an excuse to be nearby when some arrives at our dock. Sometimes I'll just stand and adjust a line while they make their approach. Usually just a wave and eye contact are enough to know if the skipper needs assistance. I also always take a very subservient attitude and address the skipper directly if possible and leave him in charge. Keeping their confidence up is important so they're making good decisions.
SomeSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:44 AM   #30
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
We are noise neighbors and like having noise neighbors! When we move to Everett I had the marina install additional dock ladders on our dock, and through out the marina. so if your dock/slip does not have one ask them to install one or at least allow you to install one. The marina installed one in front of the bow and ever two slips thereafter. I installed a ladder at the stern also as our swim deck is higher then the dock, and the ladder is hard to reach from the water. I also have lines and bumper low to the water to assist getting out of the water, a throw live buoy hanging on our step and a long pole/hook.

My wife fell in the water twice both times she was lucky. First time our neighbor heard her and the second time I heard her. If she did not have assistance she probable would a drown as both times in was in cold weather. I had so much adrenaline, I left her out of the water in one single pull. After I built new steps that hung out over the dock so there is a 6” max of space, railings on the steps and dock.

I fell in the water once but I was sort of prepared for it as I was hanging Christmas so I was hanging out over the water. I was surprised even being some what prepared the sudden shock of the cold water and how fast the cold sapped my strength. Luckily I had hung live lines from the boat so I could pull myself along to a ladder.

Over the years I have heard/known of people drowning, and most where getting on/off their boat at the dock. When people ask about what boat makes a good live aboard, I tell them if their wife and/or children CAN get on/off the boat with one arm/hand with the other arm full. Also pick a slip/dock/marina with safety in mind.

As a practice I stop what I ma doing to help other arrive/leave the dock. So do most people on your dock. Even if to just stand there. Most of the males at the helm are to macho to ask, but usually the SO/Female that has to make the LEAP OF FAITH to the dock appreciated the help. I usually call a head and so do some of our neighbors for docking assistance. Most marines will give docking assistance if you request. Usually we do not need help but it’s nice/comforting to know they are there in case.
Phil Fill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 12:39 PM   #31
Guru
 
ancora's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,489
Our yacht club has portable ladders that can be hooked on to a dock cleat to effect a rescue. I know they work, as I needed to use one when I fell off the dock into the water. Beside the ladders, the club has availible, AEDs, oil booms, portable pumps. and fire hoses.
ancora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #32
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Ladders in my marina would be covered in oyster shells within a few weeks. Best plan if no one is around is to use a boat's swim ladder. So far I haven't needed to do this.

Most of the folks at my marina will help other boaters if the dockhands aren't around or are busy with other boats.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 01:27 PM   #33
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Ladders in my marina would be covered in oyster shells within a few weeks.
Not if they are designed properly. The ladders our marina has purchased but is waiting on paperwork to install are retractable. When stowed the lower half of the ladder is out of the water. But a person in the water can easily extend them down into the water. The association docks at the small island where we own property has simple, stout, homemade wooden ladders that work the same way. The lower portion of the ladder slides up and rests on blocks on the upper portion. All a person in the water has to do is bump the retracted lower portion and it will slide down into the water.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 03:41 PM   #34
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
Gull

Your post is interesting. Thats something I will go through in my head for a long long time.

Should I have been more proactive ? As it turns out I was at the rite place at the rite time. If I had walked the 1/2 K around the marina to there slip she could have been gone.

But maybee I shoulda walked out on deck and suggested she get off the bow. That they should wait till I got around to help ?

I will never know , but I am glad I was there.

There is no way any deployed ladder could have been of any value. The girl was unable to do anything. From a call for help to even holding on to me, let alone hold the dock or piling to help herself.

Just scary ! But all ends just fine in this story.
OFB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 06:52 PM   #35
Guru
 
City: coos bay
Country: usa
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gull View Post
Firstly, OFB - great job!!!

However, I must admit to being a bit baffled.

In the marina's where I learned about boat ownership etc., it was kind of a standing courtesy that whenever someone arrived, at least one or two folk would stop what they were doing and go to the arriving boat's dock to take lines/toss lines or assist in whatever way they could.
I thought this was just how it's done - and I have continued that practice after having moved to a different area. (If I see a boat coming in that is short of crew or is having issues, I will go straight to the slip and offer any assistance I can. I don't give any direction or push any ideas - I'm just there if they want a hand - or not. When the macho types decline, then I move off and enjoy the show ).

In the marina's where I "grew up" into boating, we were sailors, and there were no dock hands etc, so everyone just helped everyone else out.
I don't want to start a fight, but I have noticed that at my current marina which is mostly power boats (and my trawler), this practice of helping out and being available for each other just doesn't exist - I thought it was just rudeness, but perhaps I just got lucky by being around real boat people early on, and I learned from some true Seamen.

I am usually single handing, and I am happy to see a neighbor standing at the ready as I approach, I don't need to stroke my ego and I'll take the help rather than scrape the boat any day.
Of course, there may be some folk who can be more hindrance than help - in which case a polite "thank you, but I'd like to try it on my own - to keep my hand in" will usually work.

P.S. On the occasion where I have assisted someone who is struggling, I have never been accused of being nosey or any other negative comments - I have only been greeted with gratitude.
Yes, what u describe is the way it was and in some areas it still is. Back then you bought a book and did a little reading to learn things before buying a boat or talked to experianced boaters first, today people just buy a boat like it was a car. They also tend to operate their boats like a car. When you see this attitude u r for the most part seeing a new boater and he/she doesn't lend a hand likely because they haven't a clue what to do. one boat owner which u reminded me of like that was four slips away from me wouldn't even recognize u were around. They would jump in the boat never a hi how are you or anything go out race around abit them come in always with the same attitude. They had a 25 foot scarab I believe and water skied. One day arriving at the marina I was greeted by a helicopter reforming a medivac. Found out later it was that boat and the occupants were all RN's and had chopped up the shoulder of someone out with them with one of those power round to pick up the skier maneuvers. Sad, he wasn't killed is the good news
bfloyd4445 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:10 PM   #36
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gull View Post
I don't want to start a fight, but I have noticed that at my current marina which is mostly power boats (and my trawler), this practice of helping out and being available for each other just doesn't exist.
You have observed correctly, I think. It's my observation as well. The only time we see anyone come to lend a hand is if it's very windy in the marina. The orientation of most of the slips and the direction of the prevailing strong winds are such that boats are almost always being blown onto or off of their docks. It's why we, like a lot of other boaters, power and sail, use permanent spring lines hung on a holder near the entrance to our slip.

Most of the boats on our dock now are sailboats. But power or sail, everyone leaves everyone else to their own devices unless the wind is up. And even then most people leave other boaters to their own devices. I will go to the dock of the sailboat that shares our slip when they come in with a north wind if I think they might need a hand but that's more to protect our boat than anything else. Most of the time the strong winds are from the south so they will get pushed onto their dock, not into us, and so will need no assistance at all.

And I will say that it is only on very rare occasions that anyone coming in to our dock, even in a strong wind, actually needs a hand. Most of them have long since mastered the techniques of getting in or, like us, they have rigged their slip in such a way that they can take care of themselves no matter what.

But the prevailing attitude I observe throughout our 2,000+ boat marina is a very minimal social "atmostphere" on the docks. People are friendly, don't get me wrong, but everyone is primarily concerned with doing their own thing. There are three yacht clubs in the marina which tend to attract the folks that are interested in interacting with other boaters. But for the most part it seems to be everyone does their own deal, and that includes coming and going from their slips.

If you want help and ask for it, assuming there is anyone around to hear you they will come over and lend a hand. But if you don't ask for the most part people on their boats won't even notice you're coming in.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:28 PM   #37
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,255
I've had berth neighbors offer to help, but docking is easier without assistance, and the neighbors have "taken the clue." Wind and current are benign at my marina.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 10:36 PM   #38
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,666
I learned that trait in a small sailboat dominated marina myself. Just be available to lend a hand. I've taught my son the same way. Be available to take orders, but do nothing unless asked. He's gotten some tours of some pretty cool boats that way.

He now wants to be a summer student hire to assist the local wharfinger.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 04:29 AM   #39
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
"In the marina's where I learned about boat ownership etc., it was kind of a standing courtesy that whenever someone arrived, at least one or two folk would stop what they were doing and go to the arriving boat's dock to take lines/toss lines or assist in whatever way they could."

That is how it is in our marina. Offer the help, especially if the wind is up, or you can see they are short-handed, and it will always be gratefully accepted. If they wave you away with a cheery "she'll be right mate", then we just wave back and go about our business.
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2012, 07:11 AM   #40
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
If you would like folks to help you dock, get to know them, help them dock, help them with their boat problems, talk to them, offer them a drink or invite them to your coockout, etc.

Your marina can have a friendly atmosphere or just be a place where strangers keep their boats. It's up to you.
__________________

rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012