Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 11-09-2014, 12:41 AM   #21
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
I feel if surfaces are kept clean on zinc it does fine as anode in fresh water. If zinc is not often scrubbed clean I feel magnesium should be used in fresh water.
You should tell the US Navy, they have spent millions researching the science of metallurgy and voltage potential in fresh and salt water. You have just proven them wrong
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 01:21 AM   #22
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
You should tell the US Navy, they have spent millions researching the science of metallurgy and voltage potential in fresh and salt water. You have just proven them wrong
There go our tax dollars again... Yet, Another Govt Fubah!
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 06:07 AM   #23
Guru
 
timjet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,905
On the ICW you will float between salt and fresh water many times so it's not practical to switch constantly and not necessary. Just leave you're zinc's in and check them every other month or so.
On my Cummins engines there are 3 zincs. The one on the upper part of the after-cooler does not sit in water when the engines are shut down so hardly ever needs changing.

Now shall we talk about the quality of zinc's?
__________________
Tim
Tampa Bay
Carver 355 ACMY Twin Cummins Diesels Sold
timjet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 07:23 AM   #24
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
On the ICW you will float between salt and fresh water many times so it's not practical to switch constantly and not necessary. Just leave you're zinc's in and check them every other month or so.
On my Cummins engines there are 3 zincs. The one on the upper part of the after-cooler does not sit in water when the engines are shut down so hardly ever needs changing.

Now shall we talk about the quality of zinc's?
Please do!
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 09:26 AM   #25
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by timjet View Post
.......... Now shall we talk about the quality of zinc's?
If we are going to talk about the quality we should call them by their proper name; "sacrificial anodes" or "anodes". We cant really have aluminum or magnesium "zincs" can we?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 09:28 AM   #26
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
We keep our Tolly in SF Delta fresh water. Every 3 to 4 months I dive and scrub zinc anodes' surfaces very clean with BBQ bronze brush/scraper. Slowly but surely the zinc is disappearing… just like an anode is supposed to do! All metal parts are remaining A-OK. I feel if surfaces are kept clean on zinc it does fine as anode in fresh water. If zinc is not often scrubbed clean I feel magnesium should be used in fresh water.
Wouldn't it be easier to use the proper anodes in the first place?
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 09:43 AM   #27
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Wouldn't it be easier to use the proper anodes in the first place?
Naw - I love the challenge and fun! I've been a free diver since childhood. Just don't go too deep any longer. Often working under boat in water helps maintain my breath control. Also lets me look over every part on regular basis. Saves on haul outs. And, I don't need to depend on quality of work or accuracy of reports from hired diver.
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 09:48 AM   #28
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
If we are going to talk about the quality we should call them by their proper name; "sacrificial anodes" or "anodes". We cant really have aluminum or magnesium "zincs" can we?
Ron

I think what timjet means is simply the actual quality of material composition of "zincs" themselves... not including the others anodes. But, it would be good to include the others too if they do have better/worse composition quality levels. I know that some zincs are better material than others. Not sure which brand is best though!!

Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 10:00 AM   #29
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Naw - I love the challenge and fun! I've been a free diver since childhood. Just don't go too deep any longer. Often working under boat in water helps maintain my breath control. Also lets me look over every part on regular basis. Saves on haul outs. And, I don't need to depend on quality of work or accuracy of reports from hired diver.
You can still dive all you want. Your boat would be better protected with the correct anodes.

As for anode quality, I believe there is a military specification for anodes and quality ones will meet that specification.

BoatZincs.com (978-841-9978) – The Online Superstore for Zinc Anodes is a good place for anodes, especially if you meet the minimum for free shipping.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 10:01 AM   #30
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
I say we call them Trawler thingies...but even if we agree on that...the Trawler thing gets in the way...
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 02:44 PM   #31
Senior Member
 
City: Great Lakes
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: NONE
Vessel Model: NONE
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 435
I/O and saildrive corrosion in the Great Lakes is now and has always been a significant problem and every claim I have investigated has been at least in part been due to lack of proper anodes.[/QUOTE]

Hi Boat Poker, Don't know anything about sail drives but a few of my boats had outdrives and like the outboards, they all came from the factory with anodes so theoretically they should not be a problem compared to a completely unprotected boat with inboards. Iv'e done more damage to my outdrives cleaning them with acid products trying to get the damn zebra mussels off but like I said, I have never had any serious corrosion issues. Maybe the anodes themselves are the problem in fresh water

You should look into the acids that are used to clean the hulls these days, I have long suspected these are doing damage to both the fiberglass and the metals, especially outboards & outdrives.

Spent most of my time on Huron, GBay, Erie, Superior. I don't doubt your right however, that the lakes are changing. I'm guessing they are far more acidic in places due to acid rain. Ironically, this is a subject we don't hear much about these days. Perhaps has taken a back seat due to more fashionable issues like global warming.

Your likely to get mixed reactions from a lot of Great Lakes boaters attending your anode seminar but I'm sure you will have the ear of everyone present when it comes to electrocution issues. Wouldn't mind attending that myself, can't count how many times I've dropped the power cord in the water.
Capt Kangeroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 04:24 PM   #32
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,666
I'd venture a guess that the conductivity of Erie and Ontario is many times that of Superior due to higher TDS and mean temperature.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 04:59 PM   #33
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,666
I too clean the oxide off of my zincs with a nonferrous brush.

I've thought of switching to an aluminum alloy anode, but haven't as yet.
Northern Spy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 08:28 PM   #34
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Kangeroo View Post

"...Great Lakes boaters attending your ... seminar ... [you]will have the ear of everyone present when it comes to electrocution issues. Wouldn't mind attending that myself, can't count how many times I've dropped the power cord in the water.
I somewhat paraphrased CK's quote. But, feel it still rings true on question I have for boatpoaker.

If live power line is in water... is fresh or salt water more likely to shock person in water?

Thanks, Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 08:55 PM   #35
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,877
Fresh
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2014, 11:05 PM   #36
Senior Member
 
BryanF's Avatar


 
City: Astoria
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Florence A
Vessel Model: 47' Sutton
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 173
go see electric shock drowning .org lots of info. Very very scary stuff.
salt water conducts rather well. Fresh water less so. When you are in the water your body is a better conductor than fresh water. You don't even have to touch anything. Just swim into the wrong place.
BryanF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 12:31 AM   #37
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
ps and bf - Thanks, Art
Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 01:32 AM   #38
Guru
 
boatpoker's Avatar
 
City: Port Credit
Country: Ontario
Vessel Name: DIRT FREE
Vessel Model: Benford Fantail 38
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 2,011
Psneeld and BryanF have it right. While Kevin Ritz discovered "electric shock drowning" through investigating his sons death (and proving the coroner wrong) Kevin frequently works with David Rifkin who has probably the best description of the issue on his website.
Kevin and David (ret'd nuc commander) worked together on the definitive study on the issue funded by the USCG.

I hosted David and his Marine Electrical Safety seminar at the Royal Hamilton Yacht Club last year and it is the best money I have ever spent on a course. Read ever single page on his site .... it is a gold mine.

I am required to attain a number continuing ed credits each year to maintain my AMS status and try to organize as many courses as I can in Ontario because its too damn expensive to fly to Lauderdale, Annapolis or Seattle.
__________________
If you can live with the consequences, go for it - wg
Y'am what I y'am an' thats' all that y'am - Popeye
As God is my witness, I thought turkey's could fly. Mr.C
boatpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 07:51 AM   #39
Guru
 
City: North Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 4,390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
If live power line is in water... is fresh or salt water more likely to shock person in water?
Unless the insulation is damaged, dropping the cord in the water doesn't harm anyone unless it's unplugged from the boat, live, and the end is dropped in the water.

The recommended procedure though is to turn off the dock breaker, connect the power cord, and only then turn the dock breaker on. A cord that's dropped in the water with the power off is not a hazard.

This also prevents arcing and damaging your power cord and shore power inlet's connections if the boat is attempting to draw power.
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2014, 08:51 AM   #40
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
All I previously worried about around docks, regarding stray electric current allowed into water, was for protection of underwater metal parts (and their connected-to inside boat metal parts - can we spell anodes, ya know - Zincs, from whence this thread began) Guess that's basically because I never swim at docks... only while on the hook. Regarding my boat's electric connection I never leave it plugged in while away and am careful to make sure all portions are in good shape and securely fastened away from water contact.

That said... TLC Video-Lucas's Story video on www.electricshockdrowning.org BryanF provided did wake me up! I have seen kids in waters around docks. And, anyone could fall in.

I will be even more vigilant to keep my eyes open for potentials of stray currents into water. Luckily the covered berth area we dock has relatively few slips and it seems boat owners there are careful. But... cha never know... I'll be inspecting more carefully anywhere near my berth from now on!

IMO - This water borne electrocution discussion and learning opportunities are thoughtful and needed diversion/hijack from original "Zinc" thread.
__________________

Art is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012