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Old 12-20-2014, 08:22 AM   #81
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I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!
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Old 12-20-2014, 09:56 AM   #82
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Mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:37 AM   #83
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mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.
photoshop!
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:40 AM   #84
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Eric, that was two-days east of NYC with 40-50-foot stern-quartering waves. Some of the waves smacked against the deck-6 (third deck above the waterline) dining room windows. Shortly after the photo was taken, trays, plates, bowls, cups, etc. crashed to the floor and at least one little-old lady's chair tipped over with her. I wrenched my knee which required a year to heal (no more pain).


I don't know how to photoshop. Life is exciting/interesting enough. Took the photo on November 11, 2010 on one of NCL's Jewel-class ships (either Pearl or Jewel).
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Old 12-20-2014, 12:24 PM   #85
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If you subscribe to "radius of gyration" physics and Newton's Laws of Motion, the rig would exaggerate the pitching.

Powerboats can pitch too....Strait of Gibraltar I believe


Attachment 35545
Yikes, I'm hoping to retire there in 2015.

There's meant to be fantastic tuna fishing in the straights of a Gibraltar;
NOTE TO SELF:Buy sea sickness tablets!


Quote:
. The sailboat in TAD's vid was not pitching because it was running abeam to the seas.
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I noticed that too!

Quote:
. >I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?<

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.
I agree: the more weight aloft will damp the roll roll and pitch motion and make the pitch cycle softer.
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Old 12-20-2014, 01:16 PM   #86
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The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.

Not quite. Increased weight aloft does not necessarily lessen the roll pitch or yaw. It simply changes the frequency or length of the oscillation. This is dependent on what the boat 'needs' for a better ride. There isn't a 'one cure for all' remedy. It depends if the boat is tender, stiff or (like your example) extremely full of ice and fuel on way to fish or returning full of fish and no fuel. Most yachts don't operate on these conditions.
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Old 12-20-2014, 02:55 PM   #87
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I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!



You and I both Steve, but this is an interesting thread.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:30 PM   #88
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I like your common sense approach, and you've got the experience to prove it.

I hate to be harbinger of bad news, but.......

The Dashew designs are based on a sailboat hull design. I'm totally ignorant about sailboats, thank God, but I do know this: a sailboat is designed to pitch 'UP' over a wave so that the hull does not get stopped, rather than cut through the waves like a powered motorboat.

So....
sailboat designs pitch a lot in rough weather.

Here's the proof, this video shows the Dashew doing just that:

http://youtu.be/tXINH9rDHqg

I'm with Wxx3 on this: it's a motorboat hull form for me every time!
I had to read your post a few times, as I looked at that video, I want sure what they were selling, but whatever it is, I'm not buying!

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.
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Old 12-21-2014, 01:45 PM   #89
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I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!
I have lots of rough water experience in sailboats and very little with my trawler and would also like to keep it that way
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Old 12-21-2014, 03:38 PM   #90
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And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.
Maybe if your vessel could get above 5 knots in a 35 knot breeze with 3 meter 8 second seas there would be some spray. I clearly understand though Richard, based upon your knowledge of the Dashew line and their unacceptable sea keeping abilities, you will not be buying a FPB.
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Old 12-21-2014, 04:46 PM   #91
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I had to read your post a few times, as I looked at that video, I want sure what they were selling, but whatever it is, I'm not buying!

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.

I'm going to stir up more trouble.......

The Dashew isn't available without stabilisers; they're a compulsory fitted item.
The reason is this: the hull has a very slim length/ beam ratio with a round bilge just like on a sailboat: without stabilisers the boat would turn turtle and have an dangerously high degree of lean. Of course sailboats have a massive weighted keel to stop this very thing happening.

What happens if one of your stabilisers get hit by a floating object when you are 200 miles offshore in bad weather......?

Sayonara matey...!
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:15 PM   #92
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What happens when a Nordhavn or similar FDH shears a stabilizer? Unless the hull is holed, I think you'd have an uncomfortable ride only. The KK42 has range of positive stability of 85 degrees 1/2 load vs. the FPB 64 at 135 degrees. Crappy ride and trying to figure out the next repairs? That's my guess.
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:15 PM   #93
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I'm going to stir up more trouble.......
Not trouble, mirth.
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:21 PM   #94
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Unless the hull is holed, .
The FPBs stabilizers are enclosed in a watertight bulkhead/box arrangement. In the event of a breach, no water enters the hull. On the setsail website, test data is available for degree of role with stabilizers on and off.
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Old 12-21-2014, 05:53 PM   #95
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What happens when a Nordhavn or similar FDH shears a stabilizer? Unless the hull is holed, I think you'd have an uncomfortable ride only. The KK42 has range of positive stability of 85 degrees 1/2 load vs. the FPB 64 at 135 degrees. Crappy ride and trying to figure out the next repairs? That's my guess.
Although the FPB has 135 deg of static stability, and zero dynamic stability because it's around bilge with no flat lifting sections which stabilise the boat when underway, it's a well know fact that long slim hulls roll like pigs in a beam sea...
Maybe not life threatening, but very uncomfortable; much more so than a standard beamy trawler.

So the Dashew has to pay some big compromises to get that low drag hull form.

But I can't imagine anyone spending those bucks not ordering stabilisers whatever the boat or the hull section.
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Old 12-21-2014, 07:35 PM   #96
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What happens if one of your stabilisers get hit by a floating object when you are 200 miles offshore in bad weather......?

Sayonara matey...!

Not quite. They are designed to shear and do without a drop of water leaking. That's exactly what happened to a 55 nordhavn just south of Bermuda on a run to Antigua a few years back. Roll increased 10% according to the owner.



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Old 12-21-2014, 07:59 PM   #97
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"...roll like pigs in a beam sea..."

Presumably that is why they have stabilizers and a drogue.

I am not an apologist for Dashew, but I'm surprised how snotty some of you are about the technology. As most of you are fair-weather boaters ( me too) how can you be so negative? Seems to me, the ability to travel at 11 knots (stabilized!) for about 10,000 miles might be praiseworthy? It must be just me but I think these boats are fantastic. San Francisco to Europe via Newfoundland, up the coast of Greenland to Iceland and then Europe?

What's wrong with you lot?
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Old 12-21-2014, 08:59 PM   #98
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If I had to go off shore I certainly would want to travel at 10k rather than 6k. I would also want fin stabilizers a gyroscopic stabilizer and sails, well maybe flopper stoppers too. Add to that small very strong ports and a bomb proof rudder. The ports and rudder are what gave out on a boat in a hurricane I was involved in a CG rescue way back when.
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Old 12-21-2014, 09:38 PM   #99
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If I had everything I wanted when I was in rough weather I'd leave the dock in a CG cutter. After a few incidents the storage areas get a little more full but each incident is different. So you buy more stuff. And raise the waterline. I am not cruising right now so not much on board but I'll be able to handle emergencies with a full load of plugs, leak fixes, underwater epoxy, silicon tape and other stuff when I leave the dock. Mostly I just want to stay out of bad weather, it's not fun for me.
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Old 12-22-2014, 12:26 AM   #100
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I blundered into the Strait of Juan De Fuca from San Juan Chanel on an ebb tide running into a west wind. This stacked up 8 foot seas which then combined with the confused seas brought on by the ebb tide draining Haro Strait, San Juan Chanel, Rosario Strait, Deception Pass and Admiralty Inlet. Oh, and I should also mention that a nice layer of fog set in. Thankfully my buddy had radar on his boat and I tried to stay a wave behind him and in radio contact as we were now in the shipping lane. When I found my boat surfing down the face of a wave while my buddy was climbing out of the trough I was forced to put another wave between us.


As Apophyge said " Mostly I just want to stay out of bad weather, it's not fun for me."
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