Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 12-20-2014, 09:22 AM   #81
Guru
 
Steve's Avatar
 
City: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Gumbo
Vessel Model: 2003 Monk 36
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,607
I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Steve W.
http://mvgumbo.blogspot.com/
Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 10:56 AM   #82
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,715
Mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.
__________________

__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:37 PM   #83
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
mark that pic in post #80 is absolutely stunning. The contrast is so extreme.
photoshop!
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #84
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,265
Eric, that was two-days east of NYC with 40-50-foot stern-quartering waves. Some of the waves smacked against the deck-6 (third deck above the waterline) dining room windows. Shortly after the photo was taken, trays, plates, bowls, cups, etc. crashed to the floor and at least one little-old lady's chair tipped over with her. I wrenched my knee which required a year to heal (no more pain).


I don't know how to photoshop. Life is exciting/interesting enough. Took the photo on November 11, 2010 on one of NCL's Jewel-class ships (either Pearl or Jewel).
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 01:24 PM   #85
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
If you subscribe to "radius of gyration" physics and Newton's Laws of Motion, the rig would exaggerate the pitching.

Powerboats can pitch too....Strait of Gibraltar I believe


Attachment 35545
Yikes, I'm hoping to retire there in 2015.

There's meant to be fantastic tuna fishing in the straights of a Gibraltar;
NOTE TO SELF:Buy sea sickness tablets!


Quote:
. The sailboat in TAD's vid was not pitching because it was running abeam to the seas.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
I noticed that too!

Quote:
. >I'm just wondering if the sail helps damp the pitching?<

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.
I agree: the more weight aloft will damp the roll roll and pitch motion and make the pitch cycle softer.
__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 02:16 PM   #86
Guru
 
cappy208's Avatar
 
City: Cape Cod
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Slip Aweigh
Vessel Model: Prairie 29
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,131
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF

The mast does.

Any weight aloft will reduce the rate of change in the boats motion.

The old fishing schooners would haul an anchor aloft to slow the rate of pitch and roll in a blow.

YES the boat would roll further , but the slower stop and reversal gave the better ride, esp if the boat were empty.

Not quite. Increased weight aloft does not necessarily lessen the roll pitch or yaw. It simply changes the frequency or length of the oscillation. This is dependent on what the boat 'needs' for a better ride. There isn't a 'one cure for all' remedy. It depends if the boat is tender, stiff or (like your example) extremely full of ice and fuel on way to fish or returning full of fish and no fuel. Most yachts don't operate on these conditions.
cappy208 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2014, 03:55 PM   #87
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!



You and I both Steve, but this is an interesting thread.
__________________
Craig

It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled - Mark Twain
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 02:30 PM   #88
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybarge View Post

I like your common sense approach, and you've got the experience to prove it.

I hate to be harbinger of bad news, but.......

The Dashew designs are based on a sailboat hull design. I'm totally ignorant about sailboats, thank God, but I do know this: a sailboat is designed to pitch 'UP' over a wave so that the hull does not get stopped, rather than cut through the waves like a powered motorboat.

So....
sailboat designs pitch a lot in rough weather.

Here's the proof, this video shows the Dashew doing just that:

http://youtu.be/tXINH9rDHqg

I'm with Wxx3 on this: it's a motorboat hull form for me every time!
I had to read your post a few times, as I looked at that video, I want sure what they were selling, but whatever it is, I'm not buying!

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.
__________________
M/Y Dauntless, New York
a Kadey Krogen 42 Currently https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Blog: https://dauntlessatsea.com
Find us: https://share.delorme.com/dauntless
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 02:45 PM   #89
Guru
 
siestakey's Avatar
 
City: Sarasota,FL/Thomasville,GA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Steppin Stone IV
Vessel Model: Marine Trader Kelly Trawler 46
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,271
Send a message via Skype™ to siestakey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
I have no rough weather experience and do everything I can to keep it that way!
I have lots of rough water experience in sailboats and very little with my trawler and would also like to keep it that way
siestakey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 04:38 PM   #90
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post
And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.
Maybe if your vessel could get above 5 knots in a 35 knot breeze with 3 meter 8 second seas there would be some spray. I clearly understand though Richard, based upon your knowledge of the Dashew line and their unacceptable sea keeping abilities, you will not be buying a FPB.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #91
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post
I had to read your post a few times, as I looked at that video, I want sure what they were selling, but whatever it is, I'm not buying!

And finally I realized that that video was making my point. The KK may look old fashion, doesn't take water over the bow like that.

I'm going to stir up more trouble.......

The Dashew isn't available without stabilisers; they're a compulsory fitted item.
The reason is this: the hull has a very slim length/ beam ratio with a round bilge just like on a sailboat: without stabilisers the boat would turn turtle and have an dangerously high degree of lean. Of course sailboats have a massive weighted keel to stop this very thing happening.

What happens if one of your stabilisers get hit by a floating object when you are 200 miles offshore in bad weather......?

Sayonara matey...!
__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:15 PM   #92
TF Site Team
 
Larry M's Avatar
 
City: JAX, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hobo
Vessel Model: Krogen 42-120
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,745
What happens when a Nordhavn or similar FDH shears a stabilizer? Unless the hull is holed, I think you'd have an uncomfortable ride only. The KK42 has range of positive stability of 85 degrees 1/2 load vs. the FPB 64 at 135 degrees. Crappy ride and trying to figure out the next repairs? That's my guess.
Larry M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:15 PM   #93
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybarge View Post
I'm going to stir up more trouble.......
Not trouble, mirth.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:21 PM   #94
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 6,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
Unless the hull is holed, .
The FPBs stabilizers are enclosed in a watertight bulkhead/box arrangement. In the event of a breach, no water enters the hull. On the setsail website, test data is available for degree of role with stabilizers on and off.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 06:53 PM   #95
Guru
 
Rustybarge's Avatar
 
City: I need a bigger boat!
Country: Ireland
Vessel Model: Cheetah 25' Powercat.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
What happens when a Nordhavn or similar FDH shears a stabilizer? Unless the hull is holed, I think you'd have an uncomfortable ride only. The KK42 has range of positive stability of 85 degrees 1/2 load vs. the FPB 64 at 135 degrees. Crappy ride and trying to figure out the next repairs? That's my guess.
Although the FPB has 135 deg of static stability, and zero dynamic stability because it's around bilge with no flat lifting sections which stabilise the boat when underway, it's a well know fact that long slim hulls roll like pigs in a beam sea...
Maybe not life threatening, but very uncomfortable; much more so than a standard beamy trawler.

So the Dashew has to pay some big compromises to get that low drag hull form.

But I can't imagine anyone spending those bucks not ordering stabilisers whatever the boat or the hull section.
__________________
Peter.
Rustybarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 08:35 PM   #96
Senior Member
 
cafesport's Avatar
 
City: Miami
Country: USA
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustybarge View Post
What happens if one of your stabilisers get hit by a floating object when you are 200 miles offshore in bad weather......?

Sayonara matey...!

Not quite. They are designed to shear and do without a drop of water leaking. That's exactly what happened to a 55 nordhavn just south of Bermuda on a run to Antigua a few years back. Roll increased 10% according to the owner.



Via iPhone.
__________________
Via iOS.
cafesport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 08:59 PM   #97
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,447
"...roll like pigs in a beam sea..."

Presumably that is why they have stabilizers and a drogue.

I am not an apologist for Dashew, but I'm surprised how snotty some of you are about the technology. As most of you are fair-weather boaters ( me too) how can you be so negative? Seems to me, the ability to travel at 11 knots (stabilized!) for about 10,000 miles might be praiseworthy? It must be just me but I think these boats are fantastic. San Francisco to Europe via Newfoundland, up the coast of Greenland to Iceland and then Europe?

What's wrong with you lot?
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 09:59 PM   #98
Guru
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,291
If I had to go off shore I certainly would want to travel at 10k rather than 6k. I would also want fin stabilizers a gyroscopic stabilizer and sails, well maybe flopper stoppers too. Add to that small very strong ports and a bomb proof rudder. The ports and rudder are what gave out on a boat in a hurricane I was involved in a CG rescue way back when.
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2014, 10:38 PM   #99
Senior Member
 
Lollygag's Avatar
 
City: Valley Springs
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Lollygag
Vessel Model: 1979 42' CHB Europa
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 259
If I had everything I wanted when I was in rough weather I'd leave the dock in a CG cutter. After a few incidents the storage areas get a little more full but each incident is different. So you buy more stuff. And raise the waterline. I am not cruising right now so not much on board but I'll be able to handle emergencies with a full load of plugs, leak fixes, underwater epoxy, silicon tape and other stuff when I leave the dock. Mostly I just want to stay out of bad weather, it's not fun for me.
Lollygag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-22-2014, 01:26 AM   #100
Senior Member
 
Budds Outlet's Avatar
 
City: South Puget Sound, WA
Country: USA
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 360
I blundered into the Strait of Juan De Fuca from San Juan Chanel on an ebb tide running into a west wind. This stacked up 8 foot seas which then combined with the confused seas brought on by the ebb tide draining Haro Strait, San Juan Chanel, Rosario Strait, Deception Pass and Admiralty Inlet. Oh, and I should also mention that a nice layer of fog set in. Thankfully my buddy had radar on his boat and I tried to stay a wave behind him and in radio contact as we were now in the shipping lane. When I found my boat surfing down the face of a wave while my buddy was climbing out of the trough I was forced to put another wave between us.


As Apophyge said " Mostly I just want to stay out of bad weather, it's not fun for me."
__________________

Budds Outlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012