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Old 02-18-2008, 01:44 PM   #61
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RE: Your boating history...

Yea yea.

I remember the FF/TT scandle. I was even a part of it as I recall. I also remember when almost all respectable motorcyclists rode European motorcycles and Asian motorcycles were called rice burners. To me thats not nearly as offensive as TUB. To call someones boat a tub is unquestionably abrasive. Oh yes. I remember calling FFs boat a Sailor Scow and making a small inpromptu case for it so I could throw brown stuff his way. It's goodness or evil would seem to depend on where and with whom it was used. If you go into a tavern full of harley riders you'll find them happily talking about thier hogs. It's crazy. Here we need newbies and hopefully talkers and I don't think calling thier boats tubs is going to win many of them over. But if Baker puts thums dow on it then whats he going to do about it ? Iv'e come to like Fred and his expertise is wonderful. Maybe we could talk Fred into useing the expression " TT " and drop the 3 letter word tub .. and maybe not as Fred is rather set in his ways and has a rether thick skin as well. Maybe we can all just drop it, me first .....

Eric
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Old 02-18-2008, 02:26 PM   #62
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RE: Your boating history...

Eric(sloboat),

Would you want me to edit every single time someone used the term "TT"? That is somewhat of a rhetorical question because I am not going to do it. I just made a statement in my previous post. I made no opinion or judgement. The bottom line is that if people want to use the term then that is up to them. And if it offends you, then that is up to you to take it up with them. I AM NOT GONNA MICROMANAGE(censor) Y'ALL'S BEHAVIOR ON HERE!!!!**That is not what this website is about. But, as always, there should be a level of decency on here and if you feel someone is outside the lines, take it up with them. I do not feel I was outside the lines on my previous post. Just giving the history of the term on this website.

If you have any further problems, feel free to PM me.

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-- Edited by Baker at 16:09, 2008-02-18
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:44 PM   #63
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RE: Your boating history...

I'm glad that the moderator takes a very hands off approach to our antics on here. I agree that if someone wants to call TT's "tubs" then that's their right. However, someone who chooses to offend others has to be aware that somewhere down the line someone will find something to retaliate with. When that happens, then the moderator again has to step back and let it have it's way.

How many times have you seen the first guy get to take his shot and then the moderator shuts down everyone else? Most of us are here because of a certain other list that was notorious for that? The first person badmouths a group and then all replies get censored? As Ron White says, "Happened to me."

Keep up the good work Baker, et. al.

Ken Buck
40' Puget Trawler, Made on a small island nation with 2 boatyards, one of which was famous for 34' CHB's and several other fiberglass reinforced plastic boats of varying quality.
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Old 02-18-2008, 04:57 PM   #64
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RE: Your boating history...

Steve---

The only thing you really need to know about older trawlers of various makes and models that were built in Taiwan in the 60s, 70s, and 80s is that because of the local boatyard practices during that period there can be an inconsistency in the build quality within boats of the same name and model. This has nothing to do with the design of the boat, just some of the manufacturing practices used by some of the yards that completed the boats. I'm sure it's possible to find a "lemon" Mercedes if you look hard enough

But for every condemnation of a particular make or model of trawler made in Taiwan you can probably find a lot more owners that have these boats and are very happy with them.

So I wouldn't rule out any particular make or model of older trawler just because it was made in Taiwan. What it does tell you is to make sure you have high-quality surveys done of both the boat and the powertrain. Make sure the hull surveyor you hire knows what trouble spots to look for-- leaking windows, soft spots in cabin sides, etc. in the type of boat you're having surveyed.

Almost every popular make of trawler has at least one on-line owners group. So if you find particular model that you like and want to learn more about it you could do well to look up the owners groups and ask specific question to people who actually own that particular brand or model. They can tell you what to look for when checking out a particular brand or model.

-- Edited by Marin at 17:59, 2008-02-18
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:02 PM   #65
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RE: Your boating history...

And if you really think about it....if you took all of the Taiwanese trawlers out of the population, what would we be left with(another rhetorical question)? Taiwanese trawlers make a up a tremendous percentage of the trawler population as a whole. And I, for one, would be more than happy to own one and will most likely own one in the very near future. They are a boat. And no boat is perfect. If you are going to buy a boat, you better make sure you do all of the necessary things to ensure the integrity of your purchase.


BACK TO BOATING HISTORY!!!!!
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:15 PM   #66
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RE: Your boating history...

Quote:
2bucks wrote: *I agree that if someone wants to call TT's "tubs" then that's their right.

Keep up the good work Baker, et. al.

Ken Buck
40' Puget Trawler, Made on a small island nation with 2 boatyards, one of which was famous for 34' CHB's and several other fiberglass reinforced plastic boats of varying quality.
Thanks Ken and thanks for the back up.* And while there is public access to this site....Nobody has "rights"!!!!

In reality, I go down to my boat.* My guests get on board.* My beautiful fiance climbs aboard.* We untie and back out of the slip...and always...always....always have a wonderful time.* I never dread going to my boat.* I never wonder if we will have a good time on my boat.* I can guaratee a good time on my boat.* And no one on these here internets are gonna spoil my fun regardless of what they call my boat.*

Now C'mon people, back to boats....and boating history in particular.*


-- Edited by Baker at 21:27, 2008-02-18
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Old 02-18-2008, 08:21 PM   #67
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RE: Your boating history...

Well, this is not MY boating history but with respect to Taiwanese Trawlers and offshore vessels in general, when did some of these yards start operations? CHB? Grand Banks? etc. Just curious how long some of these fellers have been around (if this isn't too far off topic-it is boat history after all)
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Old 02-19-2008, 12:32 AM   #68
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RE: Your boating history...

RTF---

For the record, Grand Banks (American Marine) is not nor never has been based in Taiwan. Owned by an American family, their first yard was in Kowloon across from Hong Kong. They got their start building other people's designs on a custom basis.* Then in 1964 they hired Kenneth Smith, a noted marine architect, to design a 36' "trawler" for them on the notion that there was a market for a production boat of this type.* The first boat (wood) was called "Spray," and she was the prototype for the first production boat to carry the Grand Banks name, the GB36.*

The original Kowloon yard is where all their wood boats were made, including all the Grand Banks ("woodie") and Alaskan models. They opened a larger yard in Singapore in the early 1970s and starting in mid-1973 this is where they made all their fiberglass Grand Banks boats (Alaskans were never made in fiberglass). This yard is still in operation, but in the 1990s they opened a second yard across the strait in Malaysia. The Kowloon yard was closed within a few years of the opening of the Singapore yard. Unlike many of the Taiwan yards, American Marine did not farm out any of their boat construction operations to other yard. They built-- and still build-- the entire boat themselves.

Here are shots of "Spray" as she looked when new in 1964, as she looks today owned by a fellow who keeps her on the Great Lakes, and the original yard in Kowloon taken in the later 1960s. The boats on the ways are Grand Banks Motoryachts and Alaskans. The boats in the water are all Grand Banks except for one Alaskan.

Notice that while the cabin configuration of "Spray" is different than what became the classic GB tri-cabin design, the hull is the same as what was used on the production GB36 that was introduced in (I believe) 1966.* The GB36 continued in production until 2000.* The only major configuration change occurred in 1988 when new hull, deck, and cabin molds replaced the original molds Howard Abbey built for American Marine in 1973.* The 1988 molds made the GB36 and GB42 a little bit longer, a little bit wider, and somewhat taller even though the overall design did not change.




-- Edited by Marin at 01:52, 2008-02-19
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:50 AM   #69
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RE: Your boating history...

Thanks Marin, I didn't know the history of GB's. I wasn't suggesting GB WAS built in Taiwan-I didn't know. So GB started in the 50's (thereabouts). Rather than being a Taiwan Tralwer, she falls into the "other" offshore vessel catagory.
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Old 02-19-2008, 11:41 AM   #70
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RE: Your boating history...

RTF---

Here is an excerpt from the Grand Banks website:

"Grand Banks Yachts began its journey in 1956 as American Marine, Ltd. Founder Robert J. Newton and his sons, John and Whit, were running a custom boatyard on Junk Bay in Hong Kong, building heavy sailboats and big motor yachts to designs by the world's top marine architects Sparkman & Stevens, William Garden, Nat Herreshoff, Ray Hunt and others.

"In 1962, they commissioned Kenneth Smith, another well-known marine architect, to design Spray a 36-foot diesel powered cruising boat with humble, workman-like lines. A year later, inspired by Smiths design, the Newtons left custom yacht building to focus on producing the first of a line of boats that would come to be known as Grand Banks. "

You can see I had the years off a bit in my earlier post. To my knowledge American Marine never officially referred to their Grand Banks line as "trawlers.' Instead, they used the phrase "dependable diesel cruisers" in their marketing literature and ads.

In the early 1970s American Marine introduced a line of fiberglass express cruisers or sport fisherman or whatever you want to call them called the Laguna. They were nice boats but the timing was terrible. This was the period of the first "gas crisis" and the*slump in the*market for fast, fuel-guzzling boats killed off the Laguna in pretty short order. Amercan Marine (now called Grand Banks) did not come out with a fast boat again until the currently-produced Eastbay.

Here's a shot of a Laguna I found on on the web.
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Old 02-20-2008, 07:06 PM   #71
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RE: Your boating history...

When I was a young 'un and my folks had the Tollycraft in the late 1960's, GBs were spoken of in almost reverent tones. The fit and finish - and especially the interior woodwork - were so beautiful compared to most of the production boats of the day. These were the all wood boats, and everything felt substantial and strong.

But they were also pretty big money. The rule of thumb for that time was about $1000/foot for a new boat - and I think the 36 was well over $40K.

Plus, you could only do 6 or 7 knots. The 2 gph or so fuel burn was pretty nice, but at $0.39 a gallon for gas, so what?
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Old 02-22-2008, 06:23 AM   #72
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RE: Your boating history...

And I thought I was the only TD Vinnette owner.
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Old 03-03-2008, 12:33 AM   #73
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RE: Your boating history...

As I lay in my bunk in Ketchikan I heard some fisherman talking on the float " look at that, I'll bet thats the one I heard about on the VHF out by Tree point this afternoon. Looks kinda flimsy to me ". I just smiled a bit and promptly went to sleep ... long day. From Ketchikan to Juneau, my next trip, was the best trip of my life. From Ketchikan I went north up Clarance Strait in beautiful calm seas and incredibly clear snowy mountians in the distance. Porpise seem to always be there ripping the surface in their never ending arcs of play on the water. My nav equipment was a hikeing compas and a tourist map of SE Alaska. It's so busy here in the summer many things become unobtainium, like charts. I went around Zambaro Island to the east. There are many islands, reefs and rocks to the west even to be seen on the tourist map. It was a long beautiful run to Wrangell Narrows. It was low tide in the Narrows and many vessels under way in both directions, mostly comercial. I got nervous every time a large vessel bore down on me going this way and that arround all the nav aids. You should see them at night! We had to pass close but being near the comercial vessels almost guaranteed one was in the channel. I started around a marker the wrong way but corrected in time. With the exception of several small places Petersburg is the gem of SE. The sky is rather white with sea gulls in the sky and on the water on the town side of the channel looking to catch a fish, or part of a fish. The range of boats and boaters in Petersburg is stimulating. I once ment a foursom from California ( 2 couples ) living on a 24' sailboat powered by a small Tohatsu OB headed for Icy Straits and having a great time. I've seen Cigarette type boats, antique boats, conversions and all manner of comercial vessels. I don't know how the harbormaster orchestrates the boat circus all summer but he does. I spent 4 days there but Juneau was calling and I was a young man with very regular urges to action so off I went . More wounderful weather and I went around Whitney Is behind Cape Fanshaw where I saw remanants of old fox farms. I entered Stephens Passage ( my favorite large body of water ) It was quiet and peaceful but I heard ... gunshots. How could that be? Hunters shooting seal? But it sounded more like cannons booming. I heard the booming for some time before seeing the huge splashes and the great flukes of the whales making the booming sounds with their tails. Then there was peace, and the wide expance of Stephens Passage ahead. There was much ice. The color blue and white was intense against the darker water and forest. It was evneing and I needed to anchor. I saw a small cove on Harbor Is that promised possible protection from all those cruising ice bergs during the night. One of the only shore ties I've ever done kept me out of trouble that night. A good adventurous image of the large bergs gosting smoothly along at dusk is still with me. The morning was glorious sunshine Alaska style but the first headland to round going north marked by heavy bank of fog. I got under way and went close to shore at the point of land. I went slowly about 2-300' off the beach just barely in view. I put my compas on the cabin top, established a general heading and used 90 degree turns to cross several small inlets. In a moment I was in the middle of a group of whales blasting their breath and spray into the air. My heart stopped and I shut off the engine. Then the huge tails rose and fell slowly and gracefully back into the sea. Some were only a boat length away. probably the whale experience of my life. I waited for a time and continued. Later I saw sea otters and later seals. I knew where I was .. just north of Taku Harbor and Taku Inlet was large enough so I had doubts about my navigation but being a lucky astrological sign I broke out into late afternoon sun. I motored up to Juneau, the city of my birth, and tied up at Aurora Harbor with the memories of a lifetime tied up inside.

Eric Henning
30 Willard
Thorne Bay AK
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:20 AM   #74
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RE: Your boating history...

Nice story, Eric!

I can visualize every detail....
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Old 03-03-2008, 08:12 AM   #75
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RE: Your boating history...

Thank You, Eric.

Your story brought back some nice memories.

OS
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Old 03-03-2008, 10:43 AM   #76
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RE: Your boating history...

Eric: Another reminder of why I love SE so much. Thank You! How old were you on that trip?

Walt
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:35 PM   #77
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RE: Your boating history...

Walt, Cook and Old Salt,

I'm sure pleased you enjoyed my tale of youth and adventure in SE Alaska. It's funny you should ask about my age ( I'm getting old enough so I usually don't like the topic ) but I was 34 then and I'm exactly twice that now. I like to tell the stories, I put some effort into them and I'm pleased myself but I may be shooting myself in the foot. I'd like to see EVERYONE post at least some part of their story, their boating history, so we can experience, with them what we have missed because we can be only one person. together we can be more. The group boating and the family boating that Max Simmons shared with us is a good example for me because I didn't and could'nt experience that except as an outsider looking in. I had a girlfreind whose father had a 36 CC ( beautiful boat ) and I went with them on occasion and was probably closer to true yachting than I'll ever be again. I'd like to see more stories like Max Simmons. The better we get at telling our stories the less likely the average guy will be to belly up to the bar and let fly with their own. I think we should have a " Motley Mug Month " whereas we post a picture of ourselves instead of our boats. I dare you three guys to do that!

Eric
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:27 PM   #78
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RE: Your boating history...

Wow!* Willy!* Wow!

If we put a tuxedo on that guy in the skiff, we could pass him off as the Maitre D' of a fine Seafood Restaurant, anywhere on the Coast!* I thought all the photos from 40 years ago were in Black & White!

I hope the other guys aren't that distinguished looking, or I'm going to be the one responsible for scaring the kids walking past the computer monitors!

I will probably have to spend some time with that photo Chop Shop before I post, if I want to look anywhere as good as you.

OS
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:53 PM   #79
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RE: Your boating history...

Geeze!!!!* What a shock! I had this image of an "OLD Fishboat Guy" and this photo completely blows that away. Hell, you look young and in good shape! How did you ever arrive at "Old Fish Boat Guy?"
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Old 03-04-2008, 10:20 PM   #80
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RE: Your boating history...

Hey guys - you have only seen a picture of the ugly mutt, I've met him in person. Let me tell you it could be considered scary especially when you see him crawling out of the bilges of the "Perkes" in his boat inspecting clothes
Actually, he turned out to be a great guy - Yep he did that !!

John "Penta
Sidney, BC
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