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Old 11-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #101
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I posted earlier, but my annual numbers are $26,400 which I have going into a completely separate account. This represents about 5.5% of my purchase price. My boat is a 2005 with no known deferred maintenance as I try to keep things current. In two years I have spent every penny of that. However, I did a number of upgrades. Going forward for the next couple years, I am confident I can build up a war chest which I fully intend on having to spend in the future. There will come a time when I will have a $10,000 unknown expense and will be glad I have the money set aside in a "boat account". This is psychologically less damaging than having to come up with the funds from my general cash flow or investments. Kind of like a good Strata, start the contingency fund now.
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Old 11-27-2012, 10:34 PM   #102
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OK, Andy G and Sunchaser smoked me out. Here is the skinny on Moonstruck's budget.
  • Annual slip rental with electric depending on where we are $7 to 9.000.00
  • Insurance depending on where we are $4-7000.00 per year
  • Haul outs, diver, and zincs $2,500.00
  • Capt. to look after the boat in our absence $1,500.00

Fuel is not included here as we sometimes make some long legged runs of from 300 to 1,500 miles.

I figure our average budget for the boat at $22 to 25,000 per year.

Of course sometimes I will treat myself to some new equipment. Sometimes it is really not even necessary.

Now, why did you guys make me do this?
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Old 11-27-2012, 11:29 PM   #103
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OK, Andy G and Sunchaser smoked me out. Here is the skinny on Moonstruck's budget.
  • Annual slip rental with electric depending on where we are $7 to 9.000.00
  • Insurance depending on where we are $4-7000.00 per year
  • Haul outs, diver, and zincs $2,500.00
  • Capt. to look after the boat in our absence $1,500.00
Fuel is not included here as we sometimes make some long legged runs of from 300 to 1,500 miles.

I figure our average budget for the boat at $22 to 25,000 per year.

Of course sometimes I will treat myself to some new equipment. Sometimes it is really not even necessary.

Now, why did you guys make me do this?
Cause you actually like it!!!
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:41 AM   #104
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I'm noticing most do not include the payment for the boat itself in their annual cost although most are making them. Are we kidding ourselves a bit?
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:50 AM   #105
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I'm noticing most do not include the payment for the boat itself in their annual cost although most are making them. Are we kidding ourselves a bit?
The answer is probably yes. I go under the philosophy, like Marin, of not making payments on toys. This has worked for 40 years for me. The boat is not my main residence, so it is a toy. It is also a depreciating asset that can get upside down on a loan. If I were a live aboard, it may be a little different. However, yes if we considered all the costs. it would probably not seam worth it. So, I guess we just kid ourselves a little.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:28 AM   #106
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I'm noticing most do not include the payment for the boat itself in their annual cost although most are making them. Are we kidding ourselves a bit?
Its funny but I mentioned that exact same thing earlier in this thread but had zero responses.

I know that most large boats are financed, at least from my discussions with marine title folks, boat brokers, other owners, etc... over the years.

It almost seems like a taboo subject for people online, and I don't know why.

Personally I do not feel bad about my boat mortgage. I'm not well to do enough to buy my boat outright without robbing the retirement funds. No problem there so I have a mortgage.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:44 AM   #107
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We had a small mortgage for a small house, and paid it off early. When we had enough money cobbled together, we went shopping for the boat. The banks make enough in profits that they don't really need help from me
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:51 AM   #108
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Some Sailor

Following up with what Don said and going back to my post 100, depreciation/boat payments are a huge cost.

Assuming one pays $2M cash for a new 60' Nordhavn and sells it after 5 years at a depreciation loss of 35% or so for $1.3M. This is a depreciation "rough" loss of $140K per year. Figure in a 6% sales fee and it gets worse.

The OP's question is on a 10 year old Mainship (egads - without an AP so he takes 10% more fuel/time to get there) that is purchased for $160K cash. After 5 years he sells his vessel which is now depreciating at 4% per year or a "rough" loss of $6400 per year.

No matter how you look at it Some Sailor the cost to own for depreciation alone is big. If financed at X% it is even bigger. You can cut your loan interest in half if you and your banker can work out a line of credit which is LIBOR based.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:54 AM   #109
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You can borrow money to buy something you don't need (a boat) or you can take money that would otherwise earn a profit when invested amd spend it on something you don't need (a boat). I am like a few others, I wouldn't finance something I don't need. Either way owning a boat is costing you $XXX per year.

At this point in my life, I don't care. I put in my time and saved my money. I am now rewarding myself with a boat and some other things. As long as the money going out doesn't exceed the money coming in, I am fine. I have a cushion for unexpected expenses.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:04 AM   #110
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first of all u are forgetting that in todays world unless you micro manage your investments you are making far less upoon them thaqn the current inflation rate. Plunk the money into a nice toy like a boat and or a 2nd, 3rd home and u have a tax deduction and tons of fun and recreation which does has real value in todays world. Extrapalate it out to include decreased health costs, possible tax deductions depending upon use, and then of course the estimated value of the relaxation and fun factor which I'm positive will cancel out all this negitiveisum regarding cash flow and boats.

bottom line is I'm sure your return for dollar will be greater than the current rate of .02 percent interest om bank savings accounts.

Me, i just wanna have fun
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:07 AM   #111
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We live 45 minutes north of central SF, on a small mountain's side, in a legally development protected county-style RE area, looking down over a really cool and locally renowned 18 hole golf course in the valley and its good sized clubhouse, restaurant, and bar. Town population 250. Other small towns surround our protected area and we can drive to visit Point Reyes or famous Sir Francis Drake Bay in minutes. Owe just enough on one of our rural based homes to work as tax deduction... NO other debt. Decent income with $$$ back up. For me: More inventions and processes to complete and sell - what fun! Love having a boat; our minimal ($8K+/-) annual cost for SF Bay Delta’s covered-docking, cruising, hooking, swimming, and playing (that's less expensive than any other form of full-tilt-boogey enjoyment - IMO) is our pleasing expense to have healthy R&R available - at any time we want, for as long as we want, with little to no planning required. Due to very reasonable purchase prices for an extremely good condition and simple to care for "classic" 1977 Tollycraft Tri Cabin having all extended-cruising/live-aboard features, and a cool tow behind Crestliner o/b runabout, that both have decades of future in their useable life spans, there is no appreciable $$$ down side to be seen. If playing poker... you could call our Tolly TC and Crestliner o/b runabout purchase costs, in regard to their future sales potential values, a virtual "PUSH"!

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Old 11-28-2012, 12:13 PM   #112
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No matter how you look at it Some Sailor the cost to own for depreciation alone is big. If financed at X% it is even bigger. You can cut your loan interest in half if you and your banker can work out a line of credit which is LIBOR based.
That's the reason I ask I suppose. I intentionally only bought the boat that I could pay for from the proceeds of my last boat and a draw from my savings. I don't have a boat payment, but I have much less boat than many others.

So, when I see my costs in the $20K-$25K a year range, and others with boats that cost multiples of 4-5 times what I paid for mine who claim to only spend $10K a year for their addiction, the numbers don't add up in my old nugget.

I think it's partially what Kevin mentioned. It's a near taboo to talk about "owing money on a boat", but my view of these beautiful boats says they must be some working stiffs out there that chose to borrow that cash to buy the toy, but just don't include it in their conversations.

Me... I could only justify the boat if I owned it outright, and that leaves me with an older gal that has good bones, but needs a lot more of my attention than others I slip with. As far as depreciation, I don't have to worry about that. I paid less for the boat than the running gear worth.

I still never look forward to paying that moorage bill though.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:49 PM   #113
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That's the reason I ask I suppose. I intentionally only bought the boat that I could pay for from the proceeds of my last boat and a draw from my savings. I don't have a boat payment, but I have much less boat than many others.

So, when I see my costs in the $20K-$25K a year range, and others with boats that cost multiples of 4-5 times what I paid for mine who claim to only spend $10K a year for their addiction, the numbers don't add up in my old nugget.

I think it's partially what Kevin mentioned. It's a near taboo to talk about "owing money on a boat", but my view of these beautiful boats says they must be some working stiffs out there that chose to borrow that cash to buy the toy, but just don't include it in their conversations.

Me... I could only justify the boat if I owned it outright, and that leaves me with an older gal that has good bones, but needs a lot more of my attention than others I slip with. As far as depreciation, I don't have to worry about that. I paid less for the boat than the running gear worth.

I still never look forward to paying that moorage bill though.

Yep. thats me. Toys are never financed but hate to pay the insurance and slip rental
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:16 PM   #114
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whether a person will have a boat mortgage and if so the size of the payments is something they need to figure out and factor in on their own--that's going to depend on the price they pay, the amount they put down, the interest rate they pay, the length of loan they choose... so it doesn't seem relavent to this dicussion for anyone to add in their boat payment when discussing what they spend on maintaining and mooring their boat. IMO.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:31 PM   #115
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whether a person will have a boat mortgage and if so the size of the payments is something they need to figure out and factor in on their own--that's going to depend on the price they pay, the amount they put down, the interest rate they pay, the length of loan they choose... so it doesn't seem relavent to this dicussion for anyone to add in their boat payment when discussing what they spend on maintaining and mooring their boat. IMO.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:43 PM   #116
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I'm noticing most do not include the payment for the boat itself in their annual cost although most are making them. Are we kidding ourselves a bit?
As it was explained to me by the GB dealer when we first started looking for a boat, and I have also read this in various places since, annual ownership costs are defined as everything it costs to own the boat each year--- fuel, moorage, insurance, upgrades, repairs, maintenance, etc.--- EXCEPT finance payments if you're making them. Finance payments do not seem to be considered part of the actual cost of owning and operating a boat.

I expect this is to enable people to compare apples to apples since someone who is financing x-make and model of boat will pay a lot more each year for his overall boating than someone who also has x-make and model of boat but paid cash so is only dealing with the actual costs of having the boat. So if a potential boat buyer asks, "How much will it cost me each year to own a GB36?" they can get a reasonably applicable answer. They can then add on their finance cost if they are going to finance the boat.

We paid cash for our GB so before we bought one we wanted to know how much it was going to cost us to own the boat itself each year, not own the boat plus pay for it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:34 PM   #117
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Thanks Art and exactly Marin! That's a great explanation of what I was trying to say.

Someone mentions keeping a separate boat account. We do something similar but it's all on paper (actually electronic file but whatever) with allocations to different large budget items like the boat. Works for us but of course personal finance is very, erm, personal and to each his own.
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #118
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Like Jennifer and others, we have a "boat account" that we add to from time to time that is intended to pay for things like bottom paint haulouts and the other hired-out expenses that crop up. But like the US government and Social Security, we find the "boat account" is easy to rob if we have to replace a refrigerator in the house or fix a car or something.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:00 PM   #119
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Finance it or buy it outright. It all comes down to one thing.

Quality of life.

When I wake up in some sheltered cove with an Eagle up in the tuna tower and the sound of an Otter hammering a clam shell on a rock on it's chest. tap tap tap tap.

It is worth every cent I pay for my boat.

Even at the cost of a nicer house. Or a newer car.

To me life just wouldn't be worth living if I didn't have a boat.
You just gotta love it.

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Old 11-28-2012, 03:13 PM   #120
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Finance it or buy it outright. It all comes down to one thing.

Quality of life.

When I wake up in some sheltered cove with an Eagle up in the tuna tower and the sound of an Otter hammering a clam shell on a rock on it's chest. tap tap tap tap.

It is worth every cent I pay for my boat.

Even at the cost of a nicer house. Or a newer car.

To me life just wouldn't be worth living if I didn't have a boat.
You just gotta love it.

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