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Old 12-11-2012, 10:26 AM   #221
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Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!
I have money that's professionally managed and the return is more than 5%, at least in the long term.

But no, you won't get 5% at your local bank. And as someone else pointed out, if you earn 5% but inflation is 3%, you're really only earning 2%.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:16 PM   #222
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Well anyone who will give millions to a guy named Made Off needs to take another look. However he did make off with the money. Then he also wound up with 3 hots and a cot off the government. Is this a great country or what?
Don

To further iterate... Just for S&G (and a somewhat spiritual thing) I watch names pretty closely as per their resulting meaning-association with a person’s actions. There actually are some pretty funny (maybe quite telling... depending on how you look at it) similarities twixt name spelling/pronunciations and what a person does... or might do. "Madoff" is one, SF Bay area police officer "Innocentie" another, and "Steve Liesman" - as well as - "Art Cashin” being a couple others’ telling names for prime contributors on the stock market’s TV “Money Chanel”, i.e. CNBC. Then there is the HIGH Pressure stock salesmen “Jim Cramer” on CNBC’s Mad Money show... note the root words - - > “Lies”, “Cash”, and “Cram” in their last names. There are many others I notice from time to time; but here I mention enough to maybe whet your appetite/interest.

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Old 12-11-2012, 06:19 PM   #223
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Art-

How about the MSNBC reporter on election night-her name is Krystal Ball!
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Old 12-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #224
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Art-

How about the MSNBC reporter on election night-her name is Krystal Ball!
TOOOO Funny!

Think about the name (probably chosed by ad execs) of the recent young heart throb guy singer, i.e. pronounced, Just - In - Beaver. "Beaver" meant a certain item... we guys were all after... when I was younger! lol Mater o' fact I am still to this day, I married one!
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Old 12-15-2012, 09:41 PM   #225
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Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!
thats my first take but second glance and i realized he was refering to investing the money in the boat and 5% being the intertest cost of the loan.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:07 AM   #226
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thats my first take but second glance and i realized he was refering to investing the money in the boat and 5% being the intertest cost of the loan.

No, my 401-K's are earning about 5% give or take. Thats what I based the number on.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:29 AM   #227
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No, my 401-K's are earning about 5% give or take. Thats what I based the number on.
Last 7 years your 401 K been avgeraging 5% increase???? Or in last couple years is your 410 attempting to make 5% while trying to catch up from years of loss or at best a push? Just wondering! If it's averaged 5% increase through the down times... Sign Me Up!
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:55 AM   #228
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Last 7 years your 401 K been avgeraging 5% increase???? Or in last couple years is your 410 attempting to make 5% while trying to catch up from years of loss or at best a push? Just wondering! If it's averaged 5% increase through the down times... Sign Me Up!

No, we've lost some of our retirement money "profits", but I have to say that the "leave it alone" approach has done OK.

edit... You got me thinking so I went to one of those compound interest calculators and tried it out on my wifes lump sum retirement discribution she recieved in 1995. Using her real numbers, she earned approx 6.25% compounded quarterly on her retirement between sep 1995 and sep 2012. We have not added to it, or touched it, and only traded funds once in that time period. so yes, I'd guess that my 5% number is a valid "cost of ownership".

But back on the topic of this dissussion....

The amount of dollars that your boat costs you in either income, lost income potential, depreciation of value, or any other measure is a real, tangable cost of boat ownership

Its one I have been happy to pay but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The real question in my mind is wether its cheaper to buy a lower upfront cost boat and fix it up, or weather its cheaper to buy a higher upfront cost boat and just keep it up.

I suspect that the cheapest boating of all is to buy a lower upfront cost boat and just keep the systems working, while ignoring the cosmetic, and the unnecessary to repair items. Then sell the boat for whatever you can get out of it in 15 years. Thats not my strategy, I cannot operate like that, but it would make for inexpensive boating.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:05 AM   #229
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I suspect that the cheapest boating of all is to buy a lower upfront cost boat and just keep the systems working, while ignoring the cosmetic, and the unnecessary to repair items. Then sell the boat for whatever you can get out of it in 15 years. Thats not my strategy, I cannot operate like that, but it would make for inexpensive boating.

That's pretty much where I am at the moment. If I could just figure out a convenient way to avoid slip fees I'd be super happy. But I'm really suffering from paralysis by analysis. Pour money into repairs on this boat to get her ship-shape? Dump her and buy something more up to scratch? Run her as is until she becomes unsafe or completely falls apart? Decisions, decisions!
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:34 AM   #230
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That's pretty much where I am at the moment. If I could just figure out a convenient way to avoid slip fees I'd be super happy. But I'm really suffering from paralysis by analysis. Pour money into repairs on this boat to get her ship-shape? Dump her and buy something more up to scratch? Run her as is until she becomes unsafe or completely falls apart? Decisions, decisions!
Way I see it: Buy a good boat, in good condition, at a good price and keep her up to snuff. Then... play with her as you may, add to her as you desire, keep costs where they are comfortable for ourselves and enjoy the heck out of boating life! We just might not see tomorrow (next week/month/year), so, today (next week/month/year) is what it's all about!
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:16 AM   #231
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I suspect that the cheapest boating of all is to buy a lower upfront cost boat and just keep the systems working, while ignoring the cosmetic, and the unnecessary to repair items. Then sell the boat for whatever you can get out of it in 15 years.
That's about what I did in reality. Bought a boat in a screaming deal at about half / third of market value and will keep adding and updating things that make a difference (and add value). I can sell my boat today for a profit, and the cost of bringing it to where I want it will only close that gap. If done right, I'm only losing money on my labor. (That a guy buying a nicer boat wouldn't have to invest)

I also was able to sell my previous boat and pay cash for the small difference, so that investment is all that is at risk. No interest, no real depreciation to speak of.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:17 AM   #232
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Using the government's inflation number is meaningless unless you apply your particular situation. The indexes they use may only affect you a portion of that number, or a very large portion of it (or even may exceed it).
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:26 AM   #233
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Yep. But you have to admit.... boats haven't been valued this low in 20 years. Hard to go wrong IF owning a boat is a foregone conclusion.

(I face my addiction)
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:58 AM   #234
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In 2007 I encouraged a coworker, a breast cancer survivor to sell stock she held and buy a boat she wanted rather than borrow the money. Today that stock is nearly worthless and the quality used boat she bought has held its value.

Aren't I the hero and how do you compute that boating cost? Carpe Diem.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:09 PM   #235
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~~~I suspect that the cheapest boating of all is to buy a lower upfront cost boat and just keep the systems working, while ignoring the cosmetic, and the unnecessary to repair items. Then sell the boat for whatever you can get out of it in 15 years.~~~
It's how I stay in boating with meager retirement resources...just keep her safe, reliable and comfortable...but 'selling' is not part of our consideration. Boating is too important to us to be be haunted with the aspect of needing to recoup something.

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Old 12-16-2012, 02:09 PM   #236
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That's pretty much where I am at the moment. If I could just figure out a convenient way to avoid slip fees I'd be super happy. But I'm really suffering from paralysis by analysis. Pour money into repairs on this boat to get her ship-shape? Dump her and buy something more up to scratch? Run her as is until she becomes unsafe or completely falls apart? Decisions, decisions!
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That's about what I did in reality. Bought a boat in a screaming deal at about half / third of market value and will keep adding and updating things that make a difference (and add value). I can sell my boat today for a profit, and the cost of bringing it to where I want it will only close that gap. If done right, I'm only losing money on my labor. (That a guy buying a nicer boat wouldn't have to invest)

I also was able to sell my previous boat and pay cash for the small difference, so that investment is all that is at risk. No interest, no real depreciation to speak of.

If you think about it thats a great method to enjoy the water, and thats what its all about.

What I did is to buy a boat and make her into a new boat, outfitted the way I want for extended cruising. The reason I did that is simply because I know that in a few years I'll retire. After retirement I won't have the financial resources to do the big things like replace engines so I did it now, while I still can.

That way I pretty well ensured my ability to stay boating into my retirement years.
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Old 12-16-2012, 02:22 PM   #237
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I suspect that the cheapest boating of all is to buy a lower upfront cost boat and just keep the systems working, while ignoring the cosmetic,
That's sort of what we did, but without the ignoring part. We decided on the oldest fiberglass GB we could find that was in good-- at least operationally-- condition. We did not want a boat that would need any work before we could start using it. We picked GBs because even though they are not our favorite design by any means they are extremely well built, particularly the first year or so of fiberglass, and the older ones are the next thing to being free. So tremendous value for the money.

But we have not ignored the cosmetics, sysems, etc. In fact that's one reason we chose and older boat, to give us a "hobby" that we could work on together. We both enjoy working with wood and so the rainforest of exterior trim, rails, etc. on an older GB is actually what we wanted. It's been a lot of fun learning how to maintain and improve the wood, what finishes and processes are the best, and so forth. We both really like teak decks and hate fiberglass ones, so it's been an interesting, fun, and somewhat challenging process to first learn all about the proper care and feeding of a teak deck and then use what we learned on a now-40-year-old deck.

The only frustration is the lack of time we can spend working on the boat. We use it year round but my schedule and the weather conspire to prevent us from doing a lot of the exterior projects properly. We try to keep up with it--- that's one reason for all the exterior covers; they keep deterioration of the wood we haven't got to yet to a minimum. But someday we hope to have the time to really give the boat the attention it needs.

Either that or we'll just take it up to a yard in Vancouver or Sidney and tell them to turn it into a brand new boat and call us when it's done.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:45 PM   #238
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No, my 401-K's are earning about 5% give or take. Thats what I based the number on.
Wow i would love to get 5%
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:36 PM   #239
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Way I see it: Buy a good boat, in good condition, at a good price and keep her up to snuff. Then... play with her as you may, add to her as you desire, keep costs where they are comfortable for ourselves and enjoy the heck out of boating life! We just might not see tomorrow (next week/month/year), so, today (next week/month/year) is what it's all about!
Good advice. Except a used boat, even well surveyed, may give up its secrets over time as you get to know it, like what I call "the strawberry punnet syndrome", "deeper you go worse it gets". In my case I committed to a major deck reno; had I not the boat would in time have been severely affected.
Life is not a rehearsal, get on and enjoy it.
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:37 AM   #240
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Wow i would love to get 5%
Where have you been investing? In the last 4 years Dow Jones has shot up to 13000 from 6000.
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