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Old 12-03-2012, 11:10 AM   #201
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You guys sure know how to take the passion out of boating with all those calculations and conditions. For me it's totally different...find a boat I like in my price range, buy it and enjoy makeing it work.
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Old 12-03-2012, 01:43 PM   #202
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You guys sure know how to take the passion out of boating with all those calculations and conditions. For me it's totally different...find a boat I like in my price range, buy it and enjoy makeing it work.
That's pretty much what I posted on post #30.

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Although I keep receipts and records, I don't add all the boating related expenses up to get an annual figure. Whatever it is, the enjoyment and peace is worth more than what I spend on the boat.
If I had to, I could come up with a close figure. I don't have to so I don't.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:43 PM   #203
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i know i am late to the party but thats how it is..
slip: $6K
Insurance: $1200
Diver/zincs: $1000
Maintenance and upkeep - improvements: average $4000/year

hours and fuel is all depending how much time you use.
i dont think we run the boat more than apprx 100 hrs/year but we spend much more time aboard.

as a side note, if you have to turn over each dime then you probably cannot afford a boat.
best advise i ever got was somone here who said dont spend your money on additional gadgets and stuff you dont really need, spend it on fuel and go enjoy boating.
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Old 12-09-2012, 12:42 PM   #204
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The "Thread Creep" showed up(I need to borrow Don's picture for him ). The Mod team felt it best to split it up and get this thread back on topic... Kinda

Where is the Bottom? Split from $ Thread For those of you creeping into the super-natural mystics of boat pricing.

Energy Cost, Etc... Split from Annual Numbers Would be the place to creep into fuel price, oil exploration, shale deposits and the inevitable environmental/Geo political ramifications of same.

We now return you to your normal posting
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:44 PM   #205
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The "Thread Creep" showed up(I need to borrow Don's picture for him ).:
Here you go. Nothing too good for our stellar moderators.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:49 PM   #206
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Thanks Don.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:22 PM   #207
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I'd love to know what the TRUE cost of ownership is for say a nice Nordhaven, or Kady Krogen in the 40' range.
Costs for that size can be almost nothing up to more than the boat is worth.

Just for grins, change the feet to meters and the numbers take a big climb ... up to around $1.3 million per year for a boat that doesn't charter.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:03 PM   #208
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I'd love to know what the TRUE cost of ownership is for say a nice Nordhaven, or Kady Krogen in the 40' range.
Since we cannot agree on what the phrase "the TRUE cost of ownership" actually means, it would be impossible to calculate.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:57 PM   #209
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Since we cannot agree on what the phrase "the TRUE cost of ownership" actually means, it would be impossible to calculate.

This true cost thing is halarious!

If we want to find out the "true cost" we just need to ask our wives, they know.

I think I'm going to try it on my wife and let everyone know how it comes out.

Here's what I'll tell her...

SLIP FEES: $2700
INSURANCE: $2300
MISC MAINTENANCE: $2000
FUEL: $2000

I can see it now... "Look honey my boating hobby only costs $9,000 a year."

Then she'll ask... "But what about all the money the boat cost?????"

Then I'll tell her that the "true cost" of boating doesn't include what we paid for the boat.

Nope, it won't work for her, and it won't work for me either.

The price you paid for the boat may not seem like much if its a small number, but many here have a quarter, or a half million dollars wrapped up in their boats. Thats real money, and it has a real cost.

A quarter million, invested at 5% = 12.5K per year, or over a thousand a month in potential income.

I do not regret the money I've spent buying my boat, but I am aware of it. It is real money, and it is more than all of my other boating related expenses combined.
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:39 PM   #210
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Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!
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Old 12-10-2012, 06:59 PM   #211
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Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!
Heck, RT - You can get way more than 5% interest... you can get the whole kit n' caboodle!

Just start a Ponzi Scheme. Buy a really big boat for impression purposes only... of course. Schmooze with all the investors.

And, have your supply of single bed sheets ready for when you eventually begin bunking with Bernie Madoff! Made Off with all the loot that is!
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:13 PM   #212
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[QUOTE=RT Firefly;118746]Greetings,
Mr.ksanders. PLEASE tell me where I can get a 5% interest rate on my savings these days!

RT, you can get 5.4% in Oz if you shop around. So if you send over some used money in $50 notes I will look after it for you.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:24 PM   #213
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well 5% is not really the true cost of borrowing or investing money.
if inflation in that market is 3% or perhaps 5%, well then you see the true interest rate is nothing to write home about.
instead keep your money safely invested in a boat (or two).
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:46 PM   #214
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Then she'll ask... "But what about all the money the boat cost?????"

Then I'll tell her that the "true cost" of boating doesn't include what we paid for the boat.

Nope, it won't work for her, and it won't work for me either.
The only reason the "cost of ownership" number is important is that a surprising number of people only look at the cost of the boat, and figure once they've bought the boat they only "have to change a tire now and again." They are totally unaware of the ongoing cost of keeping a boat operational.

I don't think anyone is making light of the cost to buy the boat in the first place. At least I'm not. You're absolutely correct, it's real money and the amount of it, whether cash or financed, has to be taken into account in determining if one can even afford to get into the hobby. Or if one needs to downsize their dream to match financial reality.

But the potential buyer also has to be aware that it costs a lot of money to own and operate the boat once they've figured out how to buy it. And that often--- according to the brokers I know--- is a cost that a lot of buyers, particularly first time buyers, overlook. We did, initially, and we were very grateful when our broker brought it up and gave us the kinds of ownership costs we'd be looking at.

When a newbie buyer is told that insurance is $1200 a year and that moorage is $4,800 a year and if they need to have the engine mounts changed it's going to cost $2,000 to $4,000 to do it, and the cost to replace that tired old exhaust hose is $1,000 and so on, it can be a real shock..

Sure, some of these costs can be mitigated by doing the work yourself. But a lot of new buyers haven't a clue how to do any of it, at least not at the outset.

So of course the purchase and finance costs have to be included in the overall cost of buying and owning a boat. But there can be a helpful reason for splitting the purchase/finance cost off from the annual ownership cost so a potential buyer has a better understanding of what they're really getting into.

We've seen several cases of people buying cruising boats (and sailboats) and as the bills roll in for fixing this or doing that they get themselves underwater with the boat and have either ended up losing it to the bank or having to sell it at a loss just to get away from the ongoing ownership costs. And I'm sure people on this forum with way more time in boating than us have seen more of these cases than we have.

That's the only value of calculating and talking about ownership costs that don't include the purchase/finance payment costs.. To prevent someone from getting in over their head even if they can afford the initial acquisition cost of the boat.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:01 PM   #215
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The only reason the "cost of ownership" number is important is that a surprising number of people only look at the cost of the boat, and figure once they've bought the boat they only "have to change a tire now and again." They are totally unaware of the ongoing cost of keeping a boat operational.

I've seen it many times as well.

Too many owners can afford to buy the boat, but they cannot afford to maintain it properly.

What they should have done, or should do is buy a smaller boat. One they can afford to maintain.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:12 PM   #216
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What they should have done, or should do is buy a smaller boat. One they can afford to maintain.
Hence the advice I read way back in the early 60s in a Boy's Life Magazine story, "Buy the smallest boat you can afford."

Which does not mean to buy a boat that's too small for your purposes.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:20 PM   #217
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well 5% is not really the true cost of borrowing or investing money.
if inflation in that market is 3% or perhaps 5%, well then you see the true interest rate is nothing to write home about.
instead keep your money safely invested in a boat (or two).
I have three boats currently... Instead of my $$$ "invested in"... I like to call it "floating the notes"!
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:08 PM   #218
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I make every effort to stay on top of and ahead of my boat's needs, plus the odd upgrade here and there. I keep very detailed records of everything, including all receipts. But I never, ever, add them up. Uh uh. No way.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:39 AM   #219
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Heck, RT - You can get way more than 5% interest... you can get the whole kit n' caboodle!

Just start a Ponzi Scheme. Buy a really big boat for impression purposes only... of course. Schmooze with all the investors.

And, have your supply of single bed sheets ready for when you eventually begin bunking with Bernie Madoff! Made Off with all the loot that is!
Well anyone who will give millions to a guy named Made Off needs to take another look. However he did make off with the money. Then he also wound up with 3 hots and a cot off the government. Is this a great country or what?
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:46 AM   #220
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But seriously now folks,

In reality there are too many variables to accurately tell someone how much it will cost to own a boat. The biggest ones being:

1) what condition the boat and it's systems are in when you buy it
2)what enhancements you want to add
3) what condition are you satisfied with ongoing .
4) How much value you put on your own time, what your skill levels are and how much do you enjoy doing various boat fixing/maintaining/upgrade work.

Things like fuel and insurance are almost insignificant, even when cruising full time and several thousand miles a year (fuel cost being irrelevant due to cruising extent).

One thing I see is that a lot of people do not add a reserve into their yearly budget for future large expense, say overhauling/replacing an engine, generator or transmission, or two...

For a "newbie" the first 2/3 or so of David Pascoe's "Mid Sized Power Boats" is as good a primer on how long all the different things on a boat last, as well as basics such as construction, ergonomics, etc.
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