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Old 09-16-2016, 02:00 PM   #81
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So you believe sitting at anchor is operating a vessel?

Interesting.
Wifey B: It can quickly require you to operate it. I believe you should have a designated sober. If you have two glasses of wine with your meal, fine. Not what I'd do, but i have no problem. However, you get drunk, it's an issue. We had a poll earlier which showed 43% drink most days when cruising and 24% drink 2 to 3 times a week. Didn't ask how many get legally intoxicated.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:17 PM   #82
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Wifey B: It can quickly require you to operate it. I believe you should have a designated sober. If you have two glasses of wine with your meal, fine. Not what I'd do, but i have no problem. However, you get drunk, it's an issue. We had a poll earlier which showed 43% drink most days when cruising and 24% drink 2 to 3 times a week. Didn't ask how many get legally intoxicated.
Likely most wouldn't know if they were legally intoxicated. That is why I got a BAC meter. It was prompted by a discussion I had with my 26 year old son about drinking habits. While I have never seen him intoxicated, he accepts that his friends and acquaintances will drink to excess and they are good about always having a designated driver. My attitude is that if everyone is responsible with alcohol, there is no need for a designated driver. This then led to a discussion about what is "excess". Hence the BAC and some personal testing.

Most wouldn't have any reason to do this and aren't as much of a Geek as I am. I am guessing that most would have a very poor estimate of what their BAC is.

So about 1/2 drink most days while cruising, but that doesn't tell us if it is a beer with lunch or a glass of wine with dinner, or if they start at 10:00 and just keeping drinking all day. Like you wifeyB, I don't care if folks drink or not, I just get worried if they drink to the point where their judgement is affected.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:19 PM   #83
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Or maybe never drink to excess under any circumstances?
What is excess?
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:22 PM   #84
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This then led to a discussion about what is "excess". Hence the BAC and some personal testing.
So what reading do you consider excessive. Over the legal limit of something higher?
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:40 PM   #85
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So what reading do you consider excessive. Over the legal limit of something higher?
This is a personal decision. I wanted to see if my own personal alcohol use would ever put me over the legal limit of .08%. I found that it never would. I did find that at the point, sitting at home in my living room, where I felt impaired enough that I would never drive a car or do any critical task my BAC was around .05-.06%. To me, this explains a move in many states to lower the legal limit to .05%. So I consider excessive to above that .05% level. I personally can't imagine wanting to drink any more than that. I just don't find the sensation to be all that pleasant nor do I consider drinking to achieve that sensation to be responsible behavior.

Again, this is just my personal choice and will be different for everyone. Tomorrow I attend my 40 year high school reunion. If it is anything like the last few reunions, there will be a wide range of personal choices on display.
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:43 PM   #86
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This is a personal decision. I wanted to see if my own personal alcohol use would ever put me over the legal limit of .08%. I found that it never would. I did find that at the point, sitting at home in my living room, where I felt impaired enough that I would never drive a car or do any critical task my BAC was around .05-.06%. To me, this explains a move in many states to lower the legal limit to .05%. So I consider excessive to above that .05% level. I personally can't imagine wanting to drink any more than that. I just don't find the sensation to be all that pleasant nor do I consider drinking to achieve that sensation to be responsible behavior.

Again, this is just my personal choice and will be different for everyone. Tomorrow I attend my 40 year high school reunion. If it is anything like the last few reunions, there will be a wide range of personal choices on display.
Interesting, so you relate excessive to the driving/operating limit? Or is it, as you say, your feeling somewhat debilitated?

If you were out back grilling for the family on July 4th, or at Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner that would still be your definition of excessive?
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:46 PM   #87
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I agree with WifeyB in that I don't drink when the boat is out of the slip, even at anchor. I'm responsible for my boat and everyone on it, so I want no issues of impairment. Tied up at the dock, sure, but not when we're out.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:36 PM   #88
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Interesting, so you relate excessive to the driving/operating limit? Or is it, as you say, your feeling somewhat debilitated?

If you were out back grilling for the family on July 4th, or at Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner that would still be your definition of excessive?
For me it would still be the same. It has nothing to do with a number, but with wanting to be at my best. During family get togethers I want to be as engaged as possible with the interactions around me so I want to be alert. I have smart and interesting relatives and friends so I want to be as intellectually sharp as possible to participate intelligently in the conversations. I want my normal social filters to be firmly in place as I certainly don't want to say anything that someone might find embarrassing or hurtful. I feel a responsibility to physically care and protect those around me so I want to always be able to make quick, accurate decisions in case of an unlikely emergency.

Again, those are just my own priorities. Others have their own ideas of what "excessive" would be.
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:35 PM   #89
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Wifey B: The question was asked as to excess. The law in most states defines it as .08. In other countries, .05 is very common and is called impaired rather than intoxicated. NTSB has recommended .05. The problem is the average person has driven under the influence 80 times before being convicted. You don't just happen to get caught the first time. That sounds like something one tells their mommy, this was my first time doing that. That, and for weed, it wasn't mine, I was holding it for a friend.

Most places limit commercial to .04 and no alcohol within four hours of driving. Pilots have an 8 hour rule and .04 and some airlines have 12 hour rules.

We have 8 hour rules and .02 as the limit for our employees and ourselves.

Now I consider anything over .04 or .05 excess. No, you're not drunk, but you're impaired. So, since .05 is rapidly becoming the new norm, I'm fine with that. I wish we'd just enforce the .08 better and not only find it after accidents. Maybe before might prevent some.

Dhays has done what I consider very wise. There are cheap breathalyzers. Get one, test yourself.
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:43 PM   #90
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Wifey B: The question was asked as to excess. The law in most states defines it as .08. In other countries, .05 is very common and is called impaired rather than intoxicated. NTSB has recommended .05. The problem is the average person has driven under the influence 80 times before being convicted. You don't just happen to get caught the first time. That sounds like something one tells their mommy, this was my first time doing that. That, and for weed, it wasn't mine, I was holding it for a friend.

Most places limit commercial to .04 and no alcohol within four hours of driving. Pilots have an 8 hour rule and .04 and some airlines have 12 hour rules.

We have 8 hour rules and .02 as the limit for our employees and ourselves.

Now I consider anything over .04 or .05 excess. No, you're not drunk, but you're impaired. So, since .05 is rapidly becoming the new norm, I'm fine with that. I wish we'd just enforce the .08 better and not only find it after accidents. Maybe before might prevent some.

Dhays has done what I consider very wise. There are cheap breathalyzers. Get one, test yourself.
Why do you keep returning to driving and operating. And using the 0.08 limit?

In fact I would say your advice for people to get a breathalyzer is strange. My advice for those about to drive or operate a boat or any machinery, is not to drink at all. In which case a breathalyzer is not necessary. Anyone who is drinking and using a breathalyzer, that says to me; I am going to push it to just under the limit. To me that is buzzed drinking and still dangerous.

As in my examples above - cook-out on July Fourth, Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, what is excess?

We are discussing excess in general not driving around looking for a kid to knock off her bicycle.

So what is excessive drinking?
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:07 PM   #91
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Why do you keep returning to driving and operating. And using the 0.08 limit?

As in my examples about - cook-out on July Fourth, Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, what is excess?

We are discussing excess in general not driving around looking for a kid to knock off her bicycle.

So what is excessive drinking?
Wifey: No, we were discussing boating and operating a boat, not your personal drinking habits. The issue was boat operation and then it went to anchoring which has the risk of needing to operate.

What do I personally consider excess and a problem with alcohol? Here's a good questionnaire:

What are symptoms of an alcohol use disorder? - Rethinking Drinking - NIAAA

On a one time basis, I consider it excess if you do things you regret and wouldn't have done without alcohol. I consider it an issue if you pass out or don't remember all that took place. If you get kicked out of a place, get arrested or get in trouble with family, I consider it excess.

On an ongoing basis, here are some things I associate with addiction. I consider it excess if you drink to intoxication level or impairment level every day or if you put your desire to drink ahead of other tasks or responsibilities, especially anytime you put it ahead of friends or family. If it leads to regular fights or disagreements within your family or with your spouse, I consider it excess. Also, if you and your spouse are doing it and fighting while intoxicated. I also consider it excessive if it's damaging your health, if you know that, and you continue the same. I consider it excess if you get intoxicated at every holiday and every major even. I consider it a problem if you can't think of a party or the word party or fun in general without alcohol involved.

Those are personal things and not anything I'm trying to regulate. They really have nothing to do with this thread or this forum. I've seen alcoholism up close and personal as has my hubby. I'm amazed my father never killed anyone with his drunken driving, just totaled cars and destroyed property and eventually led to him being disabled from the accidents. I also saw his abuse of my mother while drinking and since he was always drinking, he was always abusing her. But I'm not equating having a couple of drinks to him. Not even many drinks. We occasionally have parties at home where I do get intoxicated but never to the point of passing out or not knowing what I'm doing. However, we have those infrequently, maybe three times a year. Also, when we have them, everyone who drinks surrenders their keys and doesn't get them back until the end of the following day. If they need to go anywhere we arrange transportation. We very seldom offer or serve alcohol on our boat and never away from a dock.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:09 PM   #92
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Based on so many posts I have read here...there is plenty of impaired boating whether alcohol is part of the problem or not....
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:12 PM   #93
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Uhhhhhhh.....disrobing and running around your family cookout naked. I think that is a behaviour that could be associated with excessive drinking.
Wifey B: Ut oh. It perhaps could be associated with drinking, but with some of us it might just be done quite sober. Skinny dipping? Hot tub? What about nudists?

How about if you do the above you described and you would not do that if you weren't drinking?
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:13 PM   #94
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Wifey: No, we were discussing boating and operating a boat, not your personal drinking habits. The issue was boat operation and then it went to anchoring which has the risk of needing to operate.

What do I personally consider excess and a problem with alcohol? Here's a good questionnaire:

What are symptoms of an alcohol use disorder? - Rethinking Drinking - NIAAA

On a one time basis, I consider it excess if you do things you regret and wouldn't have done without alcohol. I consider it an issue if you pass out or don't remember all that took place. If you get kicked out of a place, get arrested or get in trouble with family, I consider it excess.

On an ongoing basis, here are some things I associate with addiction. I consider it excess if you drink to intoxication level or impairment level every day or if you put your desire to drink ahead of other tasks or responsibilities, especially anytime you put it ahead of friends or family. If it leads to regular fights or disagreements within your family or with your spouse, I consider it excess. Also, if you and your spouse are doing it and fighting while intoxicated. I also consider it excessive if it's damaging your health, if you know that, and you continue the same. I consider it excess if you get intoxicated at every holiday and every major even. I consider it a problem if you can't think of a party or the word party or fun in general without alcohol involved.
That is very well said, Wifey!!!! That absolutely nails it in my opinion!!!
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:17 PM   #95
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Based on so many posts I have read here...there is plenty of impaired boating whether alcohol is part of the problem or not....
Wifey B: There sure is and many causes. Alcohol is just one.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:18 PM   #96
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As in my examples above - cook-out on July Fourth, Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, what is excess?

We are discussing excess in general not driving around looking for a kid to knock off her bicycle.

So what is excessive drinking?
I understand your question, and the distinction you are making with drinking while operating a vehicle. I think it is a very interesting question however, the confusion comes I think because we have drifted a long way from the original thread. Since the discussion that you and I have been having in recent posts isn't necessarily about BUI, it is probably off-topic here, even if I do find the question interesting.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:23 PM   #97
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On an ongoing basis, here are some things I associate with addiction. I consider it excess if you drink to intoxication level or impairment level every day or if you put your desire to drink ahead of other tasks or responsibilities, especially anytime you put it ahead of friends or family. If it leads to regular fights or disagreements within your family or with your spouse, I consider it excess. Also, if you and your spouse are doing it and fighting while intoxicated. I also consider it excessive if it's damaging your health, if you know that, and you continue the same. I consider it excess if you get intoxicated at every holiday and every major even. I consider it a problem if you can't think of a party or the word party or fun in general without alcohol involved.
Interesting. Excess for me is well below those levels.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:29 PM   #98
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I understand your question, and the distinction you are making with drinking while operating a vehicle. I think it is a very interesting question however, the confusion comes I think because we have drifted a long way from the original thread. Since the discussion that you and I have been having in recent posts isn't necessarily about BUI, it is probably off-topic here, even if I do find the question interesting.
I think the original conversation was exhausted - operating a boat from the Bahamas to Florida, at night, drinking to least to twice the limit. There really wasn't much to discuss as to whether or not that was unacceptable.

Then should we drink or not at anchorage? That has been discussed here and in other forums many many times and the attitudes are all over the place. Yours obviously differs from mine.

So I was discussing the definition of "excess" that was being used. Not from a vehicle/machinery operation standpoint, from from a general standpoint.

Seems the definition of excess is very broad. From your couple of drinks and starting to feel out of control to B&B's description of passing out, starting fights, impacting family etc. etc. which I would equate more with alcoholism or certainly near-alcoholism.

Interesting.
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