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This Would Ruin Your Day
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The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I agree with Bruce.
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menzies
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Fer Gawd's sake, live a little.
BruceK
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Menzies, be assured I live lots. Nonsense is not improved by repetition. Maybe it`s down to PUI. Assuming you live your post, one day or night, you may have issues you and your crew are too pissed to resolve sensibly. I hope not, but then you might reconsider. As might your insurer.
I live plenty as well, but choose to live primarily sober and comfine any drinking to times when I don't need and won't need to operate a vehicle.
I also do know of one anchored under the influence that developed into more as in the middle of the night the boat found itself moving and in the drunken state the owner started it and proceeded to get tangled in two other anchor rodes, one of which was all chain, pulling those boats loose as well. As the chain initially stopped him he applied more power. and slammed into one boat. He did pick a very bad spot to do that as the Miami Beach police were quickly there and he got a BUI plus had a fairly sizable insurance claim. This was one incident cited in the recent legislation restricting anchoring where those boats were anchored.
If you have a designated sober driver then ok.
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I would somewhat agree with Menzies.....BUT.....I found myself anchored a couple of weeks ago in the middle of an allergy attack. I was about to swallow some benadryl and then caught myself..........I could not bring myself to take it because of the aforementioned considerations. I did not want to be whacked out while anchored.
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menzies
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There's lots of righteous BS on this thread!
Wifey B: So, sobriety, not driving a boat or car while under the influence, that's righteous BS in your mind? Typical denouncement. We have different beliefs about such subjects than you, so we're full of S. We're the problem in your mind. Well, at least our righteous BS doesn't kill anyone.
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There's lots of righteous BS on this thread!
Hallelujah. Testify, Brother!! Testify!!!
You are welcome to live your life by your rules. It is quite another to expect me to live by them as well.....PERIOD!
(I love that 'Period' nonsense. As if you're slamming the door on all other opinions. Self-righteous nonsense.)
psneeld
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Tried this discussion before...brings out more emotion than the separation during the US Civil War.... with about the same amount of bloodshed.
All sides should be responsible...responsible behavior and responsible legislation and responsible discussion from both sides.
Rarely is either extreme correct.
All sides should be responsible...responsible behavior and responsible legislation and responsible discussion from both sides.
Rarely is either extreme correct.
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menzies
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I'll drink to that!
Wifey B: Methinks you want to disbelieve people who actually have principles they believe in and one of those I believe in is not operating vehicles while under the influence of alcohol or drugs. I'm not a teetotaler, but respect those who do and know quite a few. I don't put them down for being so. I also have a high powered sports car that I don't drive at high speeds simply because I don't know how I'd live with myself if I killed someone driving at 100 mph or something. Same reason I don't personally drink and drive. Now, hubby never has. I did some when I was 21 and younger. I would have told you then I wasn't under the influence. I know better now. I've done plenty of things in my life others here might disapprove of, but the question at the moment is operating a boat under the influence.
This issue was brought up in reference to a man who has a DUI and two BUI's within the past two years, both BUI's in the same month. This man is a menace. If he can't see and avoid an entire freaking beach, what chance would a small boat have had? He's a criminal and we need him kept off the roads and water.
As to your drinking, I don't care how much you drink. I don't care if you do drugs. I do care if you operate a boat under the influence.
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I think we all went off on extreme ends of the spectrum. I certainly will enjoy cocktails at anchor. I think the main thing here is we have to realize that being anchored can be and is a dynamic situation. And those dynamics can change in a hurry. And are you prepared if things change for the worse?? If you are snot slinging drunk and you start dragging anchor and have to do something, NOW you are operating the boat under the influence whereas you weren't just 2 minutes ago.
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menzies
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Then maybe you shouldn't drink at home either in case the kitchen catches fire.
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Easy there dude. Just trying to add some perspective. I wasn't attacking your stance on this. Quite the contrary. Just saying that it should be considered.
dhays
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Or maybe never drink to excess under any circumstances?
I never want to be in less than complete control of my faculties regardless of where I am and I don't want those that I love to be as well. That is why I am such a light drinker I guess. Just my personal choice, certainly not for everyone and I recognize that makes me a definite outlying for the baby boom generation.
Wifey B: It can quickly require you to operate it. I believe you should have a designated sober. If you have two glasses of wine with your meal, fine. Not what I'd do, but i have no problem. However, you get drunk, it's an issue. We had a poll earlier which showed 43% drink most days when cruising and 24% drink 2 to 3 times a week. Didn't ask how many get legally intoxicated.
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Likely most wouldn't know if they were legally intoxicated. That is why I got a BAC meter. It was prompted by a discussion I had with my 26 year old son about drinking habits. While I have never seen him intoxicated, he accepts that his friends and acquaintances will drink to excess and they are good about always having a designated driver. My attitude is that if everyone is responsible with alcohol, there is no need for a designated driver. This then led to a discussion about what is "excess". Hence the BAC and some personal testing.
Most wouldn't have any reason to do this and aren't as much of a Geek as I am. I am guessing that most would have a very poor estimate of what their BAC is.
So about 1/2 drink most days while cruising, but that doesn't tell us if it is a beer with lunch or a glass of wine with dinner, or if they start at 10:00 and just keeping drinking all day. Like you wifeyB, I don't care if folks drink or not, I just get worried if they drink to the point where their judgement is affected.
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menzies
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What is excess?
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menzies
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So what reading do you consider excessive. Over the legal limit of something higher?
dhays
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This is a personal decision. I wanted to see if my own personal alcohol use would ever put me over the legal limit of .08%. I found that it never would. I did find that at the point, sitting at home in my living room, where I felt impaired enough that I would never drive a car or do any critical task my BAC was around .05-.06%. To me, this explains a move in many states to lower the legal limit to .05%. So I consider excessive to above that .05% level. I personally can't imagine wanting to drink any more than that. I just don't find the sensation to be all that pleasant nor do I consider drinking to achieve that sensation to be responsible behavior.
Again, this is just my personal choice and will be different for everyone. Tomorrow I attend my 40 year high school reunion. If it is anything like the last few reunions, there will be a wide range of personal choices on display.
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menzies
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Interesting, so you relate excessive to the driving/operating limit? Or is it, as you say, your feeling somewhat debilitated?
If you were out back grilling for the family on July 4th, or at Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner that would still be your definition of excessive?
clynn
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I agree with WifeyB in that I don't drink when the boat is out of the slip, even at anchor. I'm responsible for my boat and everyone on it, so I want no issues of impairment. Tied up at the dock, sure, but not when we're out.
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For me it would still be the same. It has nothing to do with a number, but with wanting to be at my best. During family get togethers I want to be as engaged as possible with the interactions around me so I want to be alert. I have smart and interesting relatives and friends so I want to be as intellectually sharp as possible to participate intelligently in the conversations. I want my normal social filters to be firmly in place as I certainly don't want to say anything that someone might find embarrassing or hurtful. I feel a responsibility to physically care and protect those around me so I want to always be able to make quick, accurate decisions in case of an unlikely emergency.
Again, those are just my own priorities. Others have their own ideas of what "excessive" would be.
Wifey B: The question was asked as to excess. The law in most states defines it as .08. In other countries, .05 is very common and is called impaired rather than intoxicated. NTSB has recommended .05. The problem is the average person has driven under the influence 80 times before being convicted. You don't just happen to get caught the first time. That sounds like something one tells their mommy, this was my first time doing that. That, and for weed, it wasn't mine, I was holding it for a friend.
Most places limit commercial to .04 and no alcohol within four hours of driving. Pilots have an 8 hour rule and .04 and some airlines have 12 hour rules.
We have 8 hour rules and .02 as the limit for our employees and ourselves.
Now I consider anything over .04 or .05 excess. No, you're not drunk, but you're impaired. So, since .05 is rapidly becoming the new norm, I'm fine with that. I wish we'd just enforce the .08 better and not only find it after accidents. Maybe before might prevent some.
Dhays has done what I consider very wise. There are cheap breathalyzers. Get one, test yourself.
Most places limit commercial to .04 and no alcohol within four hours of driving. Pilots have an 8 hour rule and .04 and some airlines have 12 hour rules.
We have 8 hour rules and .02 as the limit for our employees and ourselves.
Now I consider anything over .04 or .05 excess. No, you're not drunk, but you're impaired. So, since .05 is rapidly becoming the new norm, I'm fine with that. I wish we'd just enforce the .08 better and not only find it after accidents. Maybe before might prevent some.
Dhays has done what I consider very wise. There are cheap breathalyzers. Get one, test yourself.
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menzies
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Why do you keep returning to driving and operating. And using the 0.08 limit?
In fact I would say your advice for people to get a breathalyzer is strange. My advice for those about to drive or operate a boat or any machinery, is not to drink at all. In which case a breathalyzer is not necessary. Anyone who is drinking and using a breathalyzer, that says to me; I am going to push it to just under the limit. To me that is buzzed drinking and still dangerous.
As in my examples above - cook-out on July Fourth, Thanksgiving or Christmas dinner, what is excess?
We are discussing excess in general not driving around looking for a kid to knock off her bicycle.
So what is excessive drinking?
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