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Old 03-06-2013, 10:30 AM   #141
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Westwinds, thanks for the recommend, I'm an avid reader so I'm gonna order this one. There was another one they were recommending over on CF, about circumnavigation, I think they said part 4???
Are you familiar??
Thanks
Meme
...
I must have missed it. I did try Google with the word circumnavigation, then clicked on the little gear icon in the upper right, (the one for Google below the one for Internet Explorer) which took me to advanced search, click on that and fill out last update (I did one month) and site or domain name of www.cruisersforum.com. This gives all instances of this word that showed up in the last month, unfortunately, that word gets used an awful lot in crusersforum and I could not find anything in all the clutter. If you can remember more about the name of the book, you can narrow the search and maybe find it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:04 AM   #142
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Sounds like a coastal bias to me!

The important thing is to find representative boats like you think you intend to buy and take an extended test drive somewhere representative. I choose the San Juan's to start because my wife at the time was nervous about rough sea's. The San Juan's were a great place to get her hooked.

Also, don't overlook aluminum boats. Aluminum costs a little more to build, but is the easiest to maintain and typically has higher resale value, so if you happen to find a good deal on an aluminum ...
Is that right? For some reason I was thinking that aluminum was a soft material. I'll rule it back in. Thanks.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:08 AM   #143
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I must have missed it. I did try Google with the word circumnavigation, then clicked on the little gear icon in the upper right, (the one for Google below the one for Internet Explorer) which took me to advanced search, click on that and fill out last update (I did one month) and site or domain name of www.cruisersforum.com. This gives all instances of this word that showed up in the last month, unfortunately, that word gets used an awful lot in crusersforum and I could not find anything in all the clutter. If you can remember more about the name of the book, you can narrow the search and maybe find it.
I think it was "Voyaging Under Power"
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:59 AM   #144
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I think it was "Voyaging Under Power"
I have that book and thought it was very well written. It covers a lot of different subjects. Here is the Amazon link
Amazon.com: Voyaging Under Power, 4th Edition (9780071767330): Robert P. Beebe, Denis Umstot: Books

and here are the customer's reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Voyaging-Under...DateDescending
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Old 03-06-2013, 12:53 PM   #145
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Hey mate! Hahaha yeah step aside and let me in there haha Yeah I'm all good thanks. Still building the woodie. How are you old mate? You and your family well?
A-OK - TY for asken!
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I have that book and thought it was very well written. It covers a lot of different subjects. Here is the Amazon link
Amazon.com: Voyaging Under Power, 4th Edition (9780071767330): Robert P. Beebe, Denis Umstot: Books

and here are the customer's reviews:
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: Voyaging Under Power, 4th Edition
I haven't read the 4th edition yet. I have read Beebe's original and the Nordhavn edition (3rd). I know Denis, just haven't got around to buying his edition. I strongly recommend reading the 1st, 3rd and 4th editions. My understanding is that the 1st and 2nd editions are very similar BICBW. The 1st and 3rd editions are different enough to be considered different books - you need to read the 1st to have a good perspective on the 3rd edition IMHO and based on conversations with Denis his revision was intended to be significantly different than the Leishman version.

Enjoy the search ladies. I dreamed the dream for close to 50 years and then searched actively all over North America for 5 years before we finally bought Gray Hawk. We walked on dozens of boats and kept telling ourselves that when we walked on the right one we would know. In point of fact I knew when I read her listing and I wanted to buy her sight unseen but SWMBO said "NO". Once we finally got onboard she was the first of us to say "we're going to buy this boat". But in the interim enjoy the hunt.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:19 PM   #147
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I have Lin and Larry Pardey’s book, Cost Conscious Cruiser that has information on hull material choices.

Fiberglass is the most popular material by far, but be able to discern between the well built boat and one that has poor reinforcing and bonding for floors, bulkheads, with cracking and structural failure. Osmosis blisters occur on about a third of the boats, but hull can be sealed. Rotting core materials like end grain balsa, plywood, or foam for stiffening on decks and coach roof can be repaired. Avoid hulls with core materials as hard sailing can cause separation and breakdown of material. Fiberglass can be neglected longer than steel and wood.

Steel is said to be good if the boat hits a reef; however, may a boat has been left on a reef because the damage was extensive enough that re-floating the boat was not worth it. Considerable maintenance is required for steel boats. Eric and Susan Hiscock, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hiscock, who have owned both wood and steel state that it takes two or three times the work to keep a steel boat in good condition than it does a wood boat. Regular inspections for scratches must be done and paint applied. There is also the problem of compass deviation from the steel hull. A remotely mounted electronic compass up the mast helps, but using a hand-bearing compass is not possible for taking sights on landmarks for navigation. Steel rusts from the inside out so damp areas like a marine toilet, refrigerators, chain lockers have to be inspected and repaired. Most marine brokers consider a steel boat more than ten years old as having really low resale value. If you are willing to remove the interior completely and refinish hidden corners, replacing steel plate in some areas, a steel boat could be affordable.

The French have well-built boats of aluminum that are long lasting and low maintenance by not painting the aluminum. The aluminum takes on a battleship gray color. However, dissimilar metals can cause electrolysis. Also electrical system leakage can cause a severe kind corrosion. These boats are custom designed so are more expensive and hold their value. Good deals are hard to find.

Wood has fallen out of favor because it is cheaper to build a production boat using fiberglass. Wood is a good hull material, but most production wood boats are now old and a survey is very important. Also, softwoods such as fir and pine where iron fasteners were used are only good for twenty to thirty years. Wood and epoxy construction in more recent times are sold at low prices because many were home built, and some were done to questionable craftsmanship as were some production boats where boats were not done to a an acceptable design. Also the epoxies that were used were not really waterproof and were also susceptible to weakening when heated to temperatures as low as 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Look for a traditional boat laminated with rot resistant woods like cedar or teak using resorcinol glue that is completely water proof, heat, and fatigue resistant. This glue leaves brownish red joints. For any wood boat, bronze or copper fastenings must be used and three coatings of creosote to any bare wood that will be underwater is needed to control teredo worms. Paint is then applied to the creosote treated wood.

Ferrocement hulls are mostly built by amateurs and are difficult to ensure. Poor quality cement and questionable placement of rebar are issues. Maintenance is as difficult as steel and puncture resistance is low. Resale value is very low; however, some have gone cruising for little money. Some are commercially built and are usually of better quality.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:18 PM   #148
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I like steel for a world cruiser. Most places will have someone that can work steel, if need be. Maybe not to yachtie standards, but good enought to patch up if needed.

Here's a project

Used 1990 Terrebonne 75 Long Range Cruiser, Coos Bay, Or - 97420 - BoatTrader.com
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:25 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I have Lin and Larry Pardey’s book, Cost Conscious Cruiser that has information on hull material choices.

Fiberglass is the most popular material by far, but be able to discern between the well built boat and one that has poor reinforcing and bonding for floors, bulkheads, with cracking and structural failure. Osmosis blisters occur on about a third of the boats, but hull can be sealed. Rotting core materials like end grain balsa, plywood, or foam for stiffening on decks and coach roof can be repaired. Avoid hulls with core materials as hard sailing can cause separation and breakdown of material. Fiberglass can be neglected longer than steel and wood.

Steel is said to be good if the boat hits a reef; however, may a boat has been left on a reef because the damage was extensive enough that re-floating the boat was not worth it. Considerable maintenance is required for steel boats. Eric and Susan Hiscock, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Hiscock, who have owned both wood and steel state that it takes two or three times the work to keep a steel boat in good condition than it does a wood boat. Regular inspections for scratches must be done and paint applied. There is also the problem of compass deviation from the steel hull. A remotely mounted electronic compass up the mast helps, but using a hand-bearing compass is not possible for taking sights on landmarks for navigation. Steel rusts from the inside out so damp areas like a marine toilet, refrigerators, chain lockers have to be inspected and repaired. Most marine brokers consider a steel boat more than ten years old as having really low resale value. If you are willing to remove the interior completely and refinish hidden corners, replacing steel plate in some areas, a steel boat could be affordable.

The French have well-built boats of aluminum that are long lasting and low maintenance by not painting the aluminum. The aluminum takes on a battleship gray color. However, dissimilar metals can cause electrolysis. Also electrical system leakage can cause a severe kind corrosion. These boats are custom designed so are more expensive and hold their value. Good deals are hard to find.

Wood has fallen out of favor because it is cheaper to build a production boat using fiberglass. Wood is a good hull material, but most production wood boats are now old and a survey is very important. Also, softwoods such as fir and pine where iron fasteners were used are only good for twenty to thirty years. Wood and epoxy construction in more recent times are sold at low prices because many were home built, and some were done to questionable craftsmanship as were some production boats where boats were not done to a an acceptable design. Also the epoxies that were used were not really waterproof and were also susceptible to weakening when heated to temperatures as low as 120 degrees Fahrenheit. Look for a traditional boat laminated with rot resistant woods like cedar or teak using resorcinol glue that is completely water proof, heat, and fatigue resistant. This glue leaves brownish red joints. For any wood boat, bronze or copper fastenings must be used and three coatings of creosote to any bare wood that will be underwater is needed to control teredo worms. Paint is then applied to the creosote treated wood.

Ferrocement hulls are mostly built by amateurs and are difficult to ensure. Poor quality cement and questionable placement of rebar are issues. Maintenance is as difficult as steel and puncture resistance is low. Resale value is very low; however, some have gone cruising for little money. Some are commercially built and are usually of better quality.
What Your saying steel is more maintenance than wood
Crap!!! If that really is the case maybe I should contunue to consider that Malahide.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:34 PM   #150
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I like steel for a world cruiser. Most places will have someone that can work steel, if need be. Maybe not to yachtie standards, but good enought to patch up if needed.

Here's a project

Used 1990 Terrebonne 75 Long Range Cruiser, Coos Bay, Or - 97420 - BoatTrader.com
Funny you pulled this boat. 2 months ago I e-mailed the broker who sent me a bunch of pics and the write up of what she needed to reach completion. Someone started the work and didn't finish. I decided not to pursue it because I don't know enough about boat construction. I can remember the learning curve that I went through when I first started developing. The stupid mistakes that I made. I wouldn't want to go through the same learning curve with a boat renovation. What I have ahead of me will be challenging enough.

It would have been a great match if it were complete...
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:35 PM   #151
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Greetings,
Fintry's Conversion
1963 Steel Fleet Tender Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
Dive support, expedition, survey or rescue vessel for sale - Built originaly as a fleet tender, Clovelly design, tug, a serious dive boat with on board decompression chamber.
or...
Boats for sale USA, Used boat sales, Motor Boats For Sale 65' T Boat Yacht Conversion - Apollo Duck Build your own interior.

Forget it GG. Just read your post above BUT look at the "Fintry" site to see what can be done.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:14 PM   #152
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Go Have A Look?

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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
What Your saying steel is more maintenance than wood
Crap!!! If that really is the case maybe I should contunue to consider that Malahide.
You just do not know until an assessment is done for wood rot and then a complete survey if the rot is manageable. A surveyor could have a look for wood rot in Turkey, but I think you should go yourself, have a preliminary look and then have a wood rot assessment done by a surveyor if you thought it was worth it. Here is a link in a previous post I did that tells how to do a good assesment for wood rot with the boat in the water Marine Surveying : Surveying Wood Hulls - Old Boats and Yachts

Also, if you can find a steel boat over there, look at it too. Check out a few boats just to get a feel for them.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:45 AM   #153
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Just for the heck of it and since the question ws raised

1956 J&G Forbes Boat Yard North Sea Trawler Power Boat For Sale

Radiant Star

It may not be what you want but since you seem to be at least interested in Malahides then this boat might be a contender.
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Old 03-07-2013, 05:44 AM   #154
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THD, just wondering, would you cross an ocean with your family in the Cheoy Lee?
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Absolutely. From your and GG's plans as described the Cheoy Lee is probably the boat that comes closest to your needs...unless you could afford a similar sized Nordhavn, that is, and let's face it, few can.
I would certainly back this one....
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:06 AM   #155
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What Your saying steel is more maintenance than wood
.
No, what he is doing is quoting some debatable statements.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:15 AM   #156
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Absolutely. From your and GG's plans as described the Cheoy Lee is probably the boat that comes closest to your needs
Whether this old FRP vessel or another like it, figure a minimum of $200K to get it blue water ready with yards doing all the work. Still that fits into GG's budget. A season spent cruising the PNW would reveal all the crew's and vessel's needs, especially the jaunts around Cape Caution and across Dixon Entrance in 25 knot breezes.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:42 AM   #157
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What Your saying steel is more maintenance than wood
Crap!!! If that really is the case maybe I should contunue to consider that Malahide.
That used to be true for the ongoing preventative maintenance, but with the special paints that have been developed for steel in the last few years they claim it has improved (although I have no personal experience with these paints). Also, if you develop a problem, such as rot or rust, the steel is cheaper and easier to have repaired. IMHO

Aluminum is softer than steel so it will gouge easier, but it is much harder than wood and it won't rust or rot. You do have to be very careful of dissimilar metals and electrolysis. Aluminum is the easiest to repair, but finding qualified repair facilities is more difficult in some areas.

In terms of lowest to highest maintenance cost and highest to lowest resale value, I would rank them (1) Aluminum, (2) solid Fiberglass, (3) foam cored Fiberglass, (4) Corten Steel, (5) Steel, (6) cold molded (Fiberglass over wood), (7) balsa cored Fiberglass, (8) plywood cored Fiberglass (9) Wood and (10) Cement. Your mileage may vary ...
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:50 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Max Simmons View Post
I like steel for a world cruiser. Most places will have someone that can work steel, if need be. Maybe not to yachtie standards, but good enought to patch up if needed.

Here's a project

Used 1990 Terrebonne 75 Long Range Cruiser, Coos Bay, Or - 97420 - BoatTrader.com

I sent to GG already. I advised her to start looking a commercial rather than just pleasure. Not as fancy but they are built to cross oceans! Many boat mfg that built commercial also build Pleasure, on the same hull and basic supper.

My kind of boat. If i was interest in a new boat, I would look real hard!
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:57 AM   #159
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Absolutely. From your and GG's plans as described the Cheoy Lee is probably the boat that comes closest to your needs...unless you could afford a similar sized Nordhavn, that is, and let's face it, few can.
I would certainly back this one....
Hampton Yacht Group - Co-Brokerage Yacht Search - Seattle, Washington, Pacific Northwest, International Yachts For Sale

Woo! How did I miss that? Now that is a nice boat for the price. Its not listed in the Seattle Broker Boats?
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #160
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So now there is a vessel that appears to meet all GG's "criteria". A serious "buyer" would buy a ticket to the West Coast and
go take a look!! Even if it is not "THE BOAT" it must come as close as is likely and GG would learn a lot just by talking the tour!!
Looks real nice but too big for me!!
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