Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 AM   #101
Art
Guru
 
Art's Avatar
 
City: SF Bay Area
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Tollycraft 34' Tri Cabin
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 7,979
Originally Posted by Marin
Reading about the incredible incompetence, inexperience and poor decisions that led to this tradgedy seemed to have a rather eerie potential connection to this thread.
So.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Good post Marin

Pay heed GG/Metsea to the above quote. Yachting tragedies are replete with bad decision making by trusted Captains. The CG was very specific in their findings - the crew had insufficient experience from which to judge the competency of the Captain. The crew in fact were gushing about the experience and qualification of the Captain - cult like.
Marin / sunchaser - I am pleased on your cautions to GG and her mom, Meme... You both hit nails on the head! Although already referred to by others on this thread, with me being a person who has spent decades traveling, playing, working on, and restoring both wood and fiberglass boats I want to again add the caution of wood rot and fastener dilapidation in wood bottoms, transoms, bow stems... etc. IF a BIG Storm is encountered for any reason the wood boat had better be in top condition or tragedy is simply too likely - such as occurred to the Bounty due to severe leaking from rot and fastener release compounded by other unfortunate items and human mistakes. So if you get a woody I recommend to be sure to make her perfect in condition... could be million dollar costly! Just sayen
__________________
Advertisement

Art is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 AM   #102
Guru
 
caltexflanc's Avatar
 
City: North Carolina for now
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Small Incentive
Vessel Model: Boston Whaler 130 Sport
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,783
Marin, you said it far better and diplomatically than I ever could in #92. That's where I was coming from in the very beginning with "her" first thread here a few weeks ago. I still stand by that advice. Parasites need a host I suppose, as all that advice (close the computer, learn how to boat, charter, etc) by me and others has been completely ignored so that "she" can continue to feed off the idle opinions of different boats of others who enjoy that sort of conversation, to no one's ultimate benefit.

Posts 95 and 100 are excellent too. GG aside, and just on this topic on it's own, Scott has done an excellent job of explaining reality from first hand experience, some of the best posts I've seen on this forum. I remember Scott from T&T, he's the real deal.
__________________

__________________
George

"There's the Right Way, the Wrong Way, and what some guy says he's gotten away with"
caltexflanc is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 11:32 AM   #103
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Marin,

It seems obvious that you both have made up your mind to do what you have been describing--- buy a large wooden boat for a relatively low price and attempt to make it work for you. While the experiences related by people on this forum who have had extensive involvement with this type of vessel seem to me to be something well worth paying attention to, the impression I get from your responses is that you are going to do this, or at least try to do this, regardless of what anyone else might have to say about it.

I'm dissapointed that you and many others feel this way. You would be very surprised how much of the advice on this thread influences my decision. I am trying to sort through what the best boat for my family would/could be. At this point, I am not limited to any one particular boat, although I do have list of must-haves. I'm not sure why you think that we have made up our mind to buy a wooden boat depite the advice given. The truth is that wood is actually the one material that I said that I would NOT consider and up until about a week ago, I hadn't looked at a single one. Not even out of curiosity. Somehow this boat, the Malahide, popped up on my screen, I clicked on it, not realizing at first that is was wood and began to browse photos. She sucked me in, and by the time I did realize she was wood, it was too late. The listing said that she had lots of work done to her, so I decided to open my mind breifly to the idea of wood. Other than the fact that she is wood, she could be perfect otherwise. So, I decided that before assuming that wood boats are a maintenance nightmare, I had better ask here, figuring some of you guys would give good insight as to wether or not I should further investigate or let it go. Hence, I asked the question which lead to this thread. All the while kind of knowing that I probably wouldn't get good feedback in regard to wood, but decided that I would be sure before completely closing my mind to it.
After reading through all of the responses, we have pretty much decided that it's probably not a good idea and we should probably stay focused where we were prior to Vanessa, which was fiberglass or steel.

So perhaps you should just do it and see what happens. Asking incessently for advice you don't seem to want to hear would seem to indicate that the best way you're going to learn if your idea is good, bad, or indifferent is to just go do it.

Of course, I want to hear the advice. I wouldn't ask the question otherwise....and, may not seem like it to you, but I am listening. My mom and I read every post and discusss many of them in detail. And we much appreciate the good advice and support of those that give it. Good time and thought goes into many of the responses that we get.

Second guessing the results of something that hasn't happened yet seems rather fruitless in this situation because of the staggering number of variables. From your comments and questions you both seem awfully close to the bottom of the boating learning curve. The numerous comments and suggestions from people in this thread who are near the top of the learning curve that the best and safest way to ascend the curve is to start with a smaller boat do not seem to be something you are willing to consider.

So it would appear, at least to me, that your best course of action is to roll the dice, buy a big wooden boat, and see what happens.

Some of you will never understand what I am doing I guess, while others, such as Westwinds for example, totally get it. It's called research. I'm sorry that I am not moving fast enough for you and some others. I know that you want me to hurry up and buy something and shut up about it already, but I am not going to purchase a boat until I am sure that it is the right boat. Until then, I will continue to ask questions, and if you don't like what I ask, then just ignore my posts.
GalaxyGirl is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:01 PM   #104
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
Ms, GG. Far be it from me to suggest you just go out and buy something. You're doing good thus far. Research, research, research. Keep VERY MUCH in mind, even with you doing your homework and getting the BEST vessel you THINK will fulfill your needs, wants and desires, at this time, you're going to be disappointed with some things on "the" boat. I'm sure you have come to the conclusion that pretty well everything on a boat is a compromise and that your initial "list" has and will change over time. Keep askin'. Hey, you never answered my question regarding the Swedish boats and what renovations you felt were necessary. Accommodations? Fit and finish?
__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 12:57 PM   #105
Senior Member
 
IslandEagle's Avatar
 
City: Toronto & Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Island Eagle
Vessel Model: DeFever
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 232
Quote:
Prior to writing this post I had just finished reading the articles about the Bounty testimony that were linked in Charles post in the thread "Bounty-- sinking hearing by USCG." Reading about the incredible incompetence, inexperience and poor decisions that led to this tragedy seemed to have a rather eerie potential connection to this thread.
Marin, thanks for posing this, because the importance of this message can't be forgotten. The consequences of making a bad decision on the ocean is death, of yourself or of a loved one.

In an earlier post, the OP asked "Would you feel safe taking your family across an ocean in <a particular boat>?". A better question to ask would be "Would you feel safe taking your family across an ocean in any boat?" Do you, personally, feel capable to take the lives of other people into your hands? And if you don't, especially if those people are unable to make their own decisions, you have no business putting lives at risk.

As they say in flying, there are old pilots, and there are bold pilots...

But there are no old, bold pilots.

Scott Welch
Island Eagle
IslandEagle is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:08 PM   #106
OFB
Guru
 
OFB's Avatar
 
City: Richmond bc
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Invader no1
Vessel Model: Kishi Boat works
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 636
My plan was to purchase an old commercial vessel that had been working on the waters of the open pacific. Convert it and cross oceans. Lots thought I was nuts and some that had actualy done same smiled and lent a hand, advise.

I choose an old wood boat in good shape. Very small vessel but very well built and designed for her original purpose.

Well 12 years later and 3 years past my leave date that simply did not happen. Life takes different turns , you walk through different doors etc etc.

My old wood boat is sound , surveyed, insured, and a blast to live on , maintain, and cruise LOCALY today. There be some work and cash involved to get her to cross oceans today. Compared to when I purchased her when comfort or the perception of comfort ruled in my head.

She cost little and is worth not much but owes me nothing. Over the 13 years of ownership she cost me far less than the taxes, maintenance, loan on the home I sold. Leaving me cash to make better investments with.

Every one has a story , I could write a book but I be the only one reading it.

My dream still lives on as I watch the time move faster and faster forward in life.

Maybee I will yet cross oceans but it I will just purchase a well founded ex-commercial vessel that worked the ocean. Clean it up and go.

Even today for me that might be a vessel with wood as the hull material.

Invader no 1 works realy well for me and mine. I do not work for my wood boat. She works for me.

Random thoughts.
OFB is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:08 PM   #107
Veteran Member
 
City: Wisconsin
Country: usa
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 96
Google this: converted trawlers for sale
There are a considerable number of hits

trawlers expedition yachts conversion for sale | Expeditionyacht.org
Mega Yachts here, but consider locations he mentions for conversion work. Maybe he would do a small job
Fishing Boats - Used Commercial Vessels
78 to 87+ fishing trawlers for sale.

One example of a boat that could be converted.
Desco 75 Trawler- Fishing Boat Market
westwinds is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:29 PM   #108
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
This thread is a bit like Downton Abbey. It just goes on and on and on without an end in sight. Are we into series 4 yet? There just seems to be an significant mismatch between what GG wants and what she expects to pay for it. Hence the ongoing list of questions and issues. If she has deep enough pockets to buy/convert/restore and maintain/operate a significantly large vessel that will accommodate her family in comfort, she should just go do it, and hire a full time captain for some time till she may or may not be able to take on that role. Enough advice has already been given to cover just about every eventuality, with most experienced posters advising serious caution. If GG is simply a wannabee and expects / hopes to get the whole package on the cheap, then she is deluding herself. The obvious and the hidden issues will come back to hit her wallet hard. It seems like she really wants a $1.5M Nordhavn type vessel but does not have the scratch!! That is why us other poor mortals have smaller vessels and our kids make do without their own cabins.
Chrisjs is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #109
Scraping Paint
 
City: Fort Lauderdale
Vessel Model: CHB 48 Zodiac YL 4.2
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,804
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post

Prior to writing this post I had just finished reading the articles about the Bounty testimony that were linked in Charles post in the thread "Bounty-- sinking hearing by USCG." Reading about the incredible incompetence, inexperience and poor decisions that led to this tradgedy seemed to have a rather eerie potential connection to this thread.
What "potential" connection? It has a very frightening connection in reality.

Before the winds of that storm had even died down this forum was full of congratulatory posts to someone who made the same poor decisions but was lucky enough to live through it.

As has been posted on a professional mariner's forum where being accurate and honestly objective is more important than being "nice" ...

(which is why it is a source for many media outlets and industry analysts)

"Lack of failure is not evidence of success."
RickB is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:48 PM   #110
Guru
 
Phil Fill's Avatar
 
City: Everett Wa
Country: US
Vessel Name: Eagle
Vessel Model: Roughwater 58 pilot house
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,919
I have found the discussion interesting, and love to look at boats and compare them against the Eagle as to capability and price.

Anyway it would be nice if both would post a new must have list as that might have changed. We had not intention of buying a 58 ft ugly slow trawler, but the more we look the more we looked at trawlers and out side the box. Even motor sailor! We look for about 2 years, from Vancouver BC to the California boarder, before my wife found/saw the Eagle. She just knew the moment she stepped on the boat. Love at first sight, which is how it was for us, but that is different story. So if you look long enough will potentially gravitate to certain kinds, size, style of boat. Its out thee you just have to define and find it.


Some one mention looking at commercial yard built boats and of commercial that been converted, which is a whole another area, but the boats are uglier, shipperier, starker than most pleasures. Which stand to reason as everything has to stowed, secure, simplier to venture off shore and/or cross oceans.
Phil Fill is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 01:50 PM   #111
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Incredible video - fishing boats in rough sea - YouTube
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #112
Veteran Member
 
City: Wisconsin
Country: usa
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
This thread is a bit like Downton Abbey. It just goes on and on and on without an end in sight. Are we into series 4 yet? There just seems to be an significant mismatch between what GG wants and what she expects to pay for it. Hence the ongoing list of questions and issues. If she has deep enough pockets to buy/convert/restore and maintain/operate a significantly large vessel that will accommodate her family in comfort, she should just go do it, and hire a full time captain for some time till she may or may not be able to take on that role. Enough advice has already been given to cover just about every eventuality, with most experienced posters advising serious caution. If GG is simply a wannabee and expects / hopes to get the whole package on the cheap, then she is deluding herself. The obvious and the hidden issues will come back to hit her wallet hard. It seems like she really wants a $1.5M Nordhavn type vessel but does not have the scratch!! That is why us other poor mortals have smaller vessels and our kids make do without their own cabins.
I for one am content to go on with this. The water here in Wisconsin is still frozen so what else is there to do. If GG decides on steel, I am sure there will be as many comments on that as wood, then there is fiberglass with its issues. I do not think she wants a fancy Nordhavn, but something more utilitarian like a commercial trawler sort of boat. The real problem is finding a boat that has 4 cabins and enough bunks that can cross oceans safely. Are there any Norhavn boats with enough cabins and bunks? I think the boat has to be at least 65 feet for her size family and will require some modification of the interior what ever it is. Lets keep trucking (boating?) I am still having fun with this.
westwinds is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #113
Veteran Member
 
City: Wisconsin
Country: usa
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I for one am content to go on with this. The water here in Wisconsin is still frozen so what else is there to do. If GG decides on steel, I am sure there will be as many comments on that as wood, then there is fiberglass with its issues. I do not think she wants a fancy Nordhavn, but something more utilitarian like a commercial trawler sort of boat. The real problem is finding a boat that has 4 cabins and enough bunks that can cross oceans safely. Are there any Norhavn boats with enough cabins and bunks? I think the boat has to be at least 65 feet for her size family and will require some modification of the interior what ever it is. Lets keep trucking (boating?) I am still having fun with this.
I forgot ferro-cement boats: The World of Ferroboats
westwinds is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:25 PM   #114
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickB View Post
What "potential" connection? It has a very frightening connection in reality.

"Lack of failure is not evidence of success."
That was my favorite line from the Bounty investigation articles I read yesterday. Thanks for including it in your post. It is applicable to all walks of life, not just boating.
Marin is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 02:44 PM   #115
Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 734
WW -- you must be a masochist or the boating equivalent!!
No disrespect intended - some of my best friends are masochists.
Chrisjs is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #116
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl;
I'm sorry that I am not moving fast enough for you and some others. I know that you want me to hurry up and buy something and shut up about it already, but I am not going to purchase a boat until I am sure that it is the right boat. Until then, I will continue to ask questions, and if you don't like what I ask, then just ignore my posts.[/COLOR]
Don't misunderstand me. I don't care how long it takes for you to make up your mind. Nor do I care if you ever buy a boat or not. Nor do I care if you continue to post questions about boats for the next ten years.

But at some point everyone needs to act on their dreams or desires. Even if their action is to abandon their current dream. My comments were motivated by what I see as an extreme disconnect between the particular dream you two are pursuing and reality.

This is not the same thing as saying that what you want to do is impossible. Anything is possible even if it's not probable.

But from what I've read so far, from what been-there-done-that posters like Scott and Rick and others have cautioned, from the many people I have observed or known-- some here and some in Hawaii where I grew up-- who pursued dreams like yours into extreme disappointment and in at least one case financial ruin, and from your own posts which have highlighted an extreme (in my opinion) unfamiliarity with everything to do with the kind of boat and boating you are aspiring to, you seem headed down the same dead-end path so many others have followed before you.

By all means continue to explore your options. And if you ever reach the point where you feel confident enough to take the plunge, I hope you do so. Nobody finds out what will work for them until they try it and this has been as much the case for me as it will be for you two.

I will say, however, that the few people I know of personally who had a "big" dream, were determined to try it, did so, and succeeded were very quiet about it. Like the Nordhavn owners Tom has referred to who take their boats all over the world with no fanfare or public splash or announcements and discussions on boating forums. They studied, learned, explored options, and took action without making a big public deal about it or seeking affirmation from anyone who would listen to their grandiose idea. In so many cases it seems the talking about it becomes synonymous with doing it, to the point where the constant talk is all that keeps the dream alive. Whether that's the case here I have no way of knowing.

Short of repeating the notion that you have been getting some excellent basic advice that is well worth heeding (all of us, not just you two), all I can add is to wish you luck and success along whatever course you choose to follow.
Marin is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:00 PM   #117
TF Site Team
 
Pineapple Girl's Avatar
 
City: San Mateo, CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Pineapple Girl II
Vessel Model: PT 35
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,165
one element I don't know if has been explored, GG and MeMe, have you selected your captain? This is a very important piece to your puzzle and not to be taken lightly. You are going to be spending a lot of 24/7 time with this person....

We knew someone who bought a brand new high end 55 foot "trawler" type boat and hired a captain to help him fit it out and deliver it several hundred ocean miles. The captain was then to train the owner on handling the boat as it was a huge step up form the owner's prior experience. They did NOT get along and it got quite ugly. The captain packed up and left the owner in a rather bad situation. The boat is (and has been for about two years) for sale. Not to say he could not have found another captain, but he was so disgusted with the situation he chose not to and instead gave up on boating and moved on to other interests.

On the other hand, I have a friend who is a captain and he has helped one of his clients buy, fit out and deliver two large "Offshore" (I believe is the brand) boats. They are now working together on a third. My friend is on call to come to whichever boat the owner wants to use (they are in different places the owner likes to cruise) and run the boat for the owner while he is on board. They have a great relationship and have been working together for many years. Not sure if the removal of the "training" element helps the relationship but perhaps??? Trying to teach someone something adds an element of potential frustration on both sides.

On another note, our slip neighbors have been living on a big hatteras with "grandpa" and their young adult son. They are in the master stateroom, gramps is in the v berth and the son bunks in saloon on the fold out couch. I am not sure where he keeps his stuff but the boat is always put together and presentable. Don't limit your self to thinking the number of cabins or even number of "bunks" must equal the number of people. There is a lot of flexibility in sleeping spaces on most boats.
__________________
-Jennifer
Pineapple Girl II 1984 PT 35
San Francisco Bay Area
www.pineapple-girl.blogspot.com
Pineapple Girl is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 03:09 PM   #118
Enigma
 
RT Firefly's Avatar
 
City: Slicker?
Country: Bumpkin?
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 9,994
Greetings,
This guy?

__________________
RTF
RT Firefly is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #119
Veteran Member
 
City: Wisconsin
Country: usa
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisjs View Post
WW -- you must be a masochist or the boating equivalent!!
No disrespect intended - some of my best friends are masochists.
Are you referring to the ferro-cement boats?
westwinds is offline  
Old 03-05-2013, 10:47 PM   #120
Senior Member
 
City: USA
Country: USA
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by westwinds View Post
I for one am content to go on with this. The water here in Wisconsin is still frozen so what else is there to do. If GG decides on steel, I am sure there will be as many comments on that as wood, then there is fiberglass with its issues. I do not think she wants a fancy Nordhavn, but something more utilitarian like a commercial trawler sort of boat. The real problem is finding a boat that has 4 cabins and enough bunks that can cross oceans safely. Are there any Norhavn boats with enough cabins and bunks? I think the boat has to be at least 65 feet for her size family and will require some modification of the interior what ever it is. Lets keep trucking (boating?) I am still having fun with this.
Yes, let's keep searching. I will find my boat.
I am not interested in a Nordhaven. I don't care for the layout and I'm not willing to spend a million+ on a boat.

Your right, ocean-crossing with 4 cabins isn't easy to find, but I have to keep looking...
__________________

GalaxyGirl is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012