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Old 03-04-2013, 03:08 PM   #81
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[QUOTE][Greetings,
Ms. GG & Ms. m,
Are y'all familiar with this site?
Djurgårdsvarvet - The Scandinavian Shipbroker
Since you appear to be searching worldwide and want lots of pictures... /QUOTE]
Interesting site. Most seemed to be named after Ikea furniture
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:31 PM   #82
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:52 PM   #83
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I would occasionally moor next to this beauty in Skyline Marina Anacortes:
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...g_id=74772&url=

Truly a work of art and offered at a minor fraction of what it would cost to reproduce, or maintain! If money was no object, this would make my top 5 list.
Yes, someone filled that money pit with solid platinum. What that refit must have cost in time and money... well JP Morgan had the answer to that. Absolutely gorgeous. Varnished decks are a little off-putting and impractical if they are slick as the pictures look. I'd estimate >$10K a year in somebody's time at say 40 bucks an hour and material just keeping the decks and all the brightwork maintained, much more in the tropics. I wish I had a very rich friend who owned that boat so we could come out there and cruise those waters with them.

Scott, I'd wager the aft deck is the dining area. Though we have a dinette that seats 4 comfortable, 5 with a chair, we use the aft deck as a dining room 90% of the time. The most used and loved "room" on the boat by far. It is a bit of a mystery to me why you don't see these on modern boats, almost everyone who has a boat with one feels the same way we do. Indoor/outdoor living space at it's best, especially if it is easy to raise the enclosure in good weather.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:56 PM   #84
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I have owned several wooden boats...sail and power...over the past 40 years. My experience is they are little different in general maintenance than an FRP vessel. If you're at all handy with wood-working, assuming you surveyed wisely before buying, there's little to fear but fear itself. I would suggest you pay as close attention to the fasteners as to the wood itself. Be sure to research what kind of fasteners are used in the floors, keel, planks and decks. Cheaply fastened boats with iron nails or screws, even good quality galvanized fasteners, tend not to last as long as those fastened with non-ferrous materials such as bronze. Refastening, if necessary, with modern non-ferrous would be a very expensive proposition. Good luck.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by bglad View Post
I think what you see below is a typical list for the work required periodically on a vessel of this type. This list can be larger or smaller depending on the amount of crew employed between intervals staying on top of touch-ups, caulking and rebedding of hardware so leaks and exposure don't turn into significant repairs.

The list is very detailed in its descriptions of the wood working and cosmetic repairs made but short on specifics of mechanical and electrical repairs and upgrades. Also tanks and piping can have significant issues. A 1975 boat is due for work in those areas too.

One red flag for me is removal of the stabilizer system. It may be it just wasn't effective due to improper engineering or it could be an owner who has no plans to go anywhere and has opted for a more economical fix due to spending fatigue. Stabiliziers require routine maintenance every three years to insure they don't leak, corrode and become unserviceable.

I came across this boat:

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...ng_id=6824&url=

and am interested to hear yours' and other folks with passage making experience comments on the type.

My previous comments about the costs of wood boat ownership are not to say you shouldn't. But, more than once I have heard folks after the fact say they would have gone a different way if they had better information up front. That includes folks who started on one wood boat and decided the higher priced one was the better deal and of course folks buying a used boat for the first time surveying a few before figuring out the same.
Thanks for your input on the work done to the Vennessa.

That Defever is a beautiful boat, but the lenght. 78' is serious. Also, I don't know that the Defever was built as a passagemaker, but more of a LRC? Anyone care to comment on this?
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:53 PM   #86
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Hi guys!
Hope this link will work, but how would you compare the condition of Connda Venessa to Sovereign?
Thanks!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.dmQ&cad=rja



Quote:
Originally Posted by caltexflanc View Post
Yes, someone filled that money pit with solid platinum. What that refit must have cost in time and money... well JP Morgan had the answer to that. Absolutely gorgeous. Varnished decks are a little off-putting and impractical if they are slick as the pictures look. I'd estimate >$10K a year in somebody's time at say 40 bucks an hour and material just keeping the decks and all the brightwork maintained, much more in the tropics. I wish I had a very rich friend who owned that boat so we could come out there and cruise those waters with them.

Scott, I'd wager the aft deck is the dining area. Though we have a dinette that seats 4 comfortable, 5 with a chair, we use the aft deck as a dining room 90% of the time. The most used and loved "room" on the boat by far. It is a bit of a mystery to me why you don't see these on modern boats, almost everyone who has a boat with one feels the same way we do. Indoor/outdoor living space at it's best, especially if it is easy to raise the enclosure in good weather.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:22 PM   #87
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[QUOTE=Max Simmons;138979]
Quote:
[Greetings,
Ms. GG & Ms. m,
Are y'all familiar with this site?
Djurgårdsvarvet - The Scandinavian Shipbroker
Since you appear to be searching worldwide and want lots of pictures... /QUOTE]
Interesting site. Most seemed to be named after Ikea furniture
Yeah, the Ixplorer looks pretty cool, but it has no price and I'de have to seriously renovate.
It's also difficult to translate the info.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:34 PM   #88
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Hi guys!
Hope this link will work, but how would you compare the condition of Connda Venessa to Sovereign?
Thanks!
You can't compare them without seeing them and spending a lot of time on them. So personally, I have no idea how they compare. Pictures lie, or are out of date or both, brokers and sellers lie. And as Scott pointed out, even your own eyes will often lie.

In addition, looking at boats on the internet without having any idea what you are looking for or looking at is worthless, unless you are into various forms of mental masturbation. Not that that's a bad thing...
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:41 PM   #89
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Greetings,
Ms. GG. Click on the British flag. Translates to english. Price is an e-mail away. Just curious, what renovations?
If you're considering the 78' Defever @ $620K, the Ingrid A is 82' @ $612K. 5000 NM range. Heck of a world cruiser. Just sayin'...
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Old 03-04-2013, 10:58 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by GalaxyGirl View Post
Thanks for your input on the work done to the Vennessa.

That Defever is a beautiful boat, but the lenght. 78' is serious. Also, I don't know that the Defever was built as a passagemaker, but more of a LRC? Anyone care to comment on this?
One key to the designer's intent is the volume of fuel carried - ie. the intended range. By that measure its a passagemaker. You could ask Art Defever what his intent was - he's still alive and likes to talk about his boats. But as far as I know he doesn't do email.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:00 PM   #91
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GG
You are kidding, I hope.
Malahides are the ultimate wooden trawler. The only other boat that comes close are Romsdahl (sp?). Look at back issues of PMM for covers and stories about both. Even though they are wood, I would seriously envy you if you can afford one,especially for your first boat.

Now on the maintenance side, you will need to be on a first name basis with a good shipwright, and you will need a goodly budget, as these boats are treasures that deserve to be properly kept up.
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Old 03-04-2013, 11:04 PM   #92
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Naturally, we would like a low maintenance, easy upkeep, safe boat which I guess is the implication above by going with fglass. However, can you name or point the way to one that is a true proven ocean crosser?
Nordhavn.

This has been an interesting thread to read. I can't comment from experience on the pros or cons of wood boats as I've never had one nor had anything to do with one. Well, one, a girlfriend's father's 16-foot, locally-built outboard cruiser and taking care of it was a royal pain in the ass.

From participants on the Grand Banks forum who own wood GBs I know these boats can be a lot of work, can cost a lot of money, time, and effort to repair.... and can be very rewarding to their owners.

It seems obvious that you both have made up your mind to do what you have been describing--- buy a large wooden boat for a relatively low price and attempt to make it work for you. While the experiences related by people on this forum who have had extensive involvement with this type of vessel seem to me to be something well worth paying attention to, the impression I get from your responses is that you are going to do this, or at least try to do this, regardless of what anyone else might have to say about it.

So perhaps you should just do it and see what happens. Asking incessently for advice you don't seem to want to hear would seem to indicate that the best way you're going to learn if your idea is good, bad, or indifferent is to just go do it.

Second guessing the results of something that hasn't happened yet seems rather fruitless in this situation because of the staggering number of variables. From your comments and questions you both seem awfully close to the bottom of the boating learning curve. The numerous comments and suggestions from people in this thread who are near the top of the learning curve that the best and safest way to ascend the curve is to start with a smaller boat do not seem to be something you are willing to consider.

So it would appear, at least to me, that your best course of action is to roll the dice, buy a big wooden boat, and see what happens.

Prior to writing this post I had just finished reading the articles about the Bounty testimony that were linked in Charles post in the thread "Bounty-- sinking hearing by USCG." Reading about the incredible incompetence, inexperience and poor decisions that led to this tradgedy seemed to have a rather eerie potential connection to this thread.

So I dunno..... If what you want is an afirmation that you are approaching your dream the right way, I'm not sure you're going to get that here, at least not from the people who have to some degree or another gone down the same path themselves in the past. So if what you want to do is really a critically important dream for the both of you to follow, then perhaps you should simply stop asking for opinions and just do what you want to do.

Whether the course you take is right, wrong, or somewhere in between will become apparent soon enough as you learn whatever lessons reality has to teach you.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:05 AM   #93
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The most important part of boating is the "Round Trip".

The cost of purchasing the boat , getting it in operational condition , then selling it.

When the wooden version of a boat sells for what would be the sales tax on a modern version, the chance of a great round trip wouds seem slim , unless ALL the costs are kept minor.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:23 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meatsea View Post
Hi guys!
Hope this link will work, but how would you compare the condition of Connda Venessa to Sovereign?
Thanks!

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...,d.dmQ&cad=rja
My comment is not a compartive one but I like the Connda Venessa much better now that I have read through the whole listing. A few comments that grabbed my attention were new gray and black water tanks, competely rewired, engine room stripped and reinsulated, etc. Sounds pretty thorough although done close to ten years ago.

I agree with others that you should go and see them. Take your trusted Captain with you. You want to make sure the two of you can ride this bronco before you attempt to buy it. Also don't just look at these two. Until you have looked at a good number of boats even different types you won't know how good or bad you are about to have it. It is time well spent even if you end up back where you started.

One offhand remark I will make about the two is if I were to get caught in very high winds and waves I think I would like the one with a lower profile. The tall superstructure and mast would seem to make the Connda Venessa more tender. It is an offhand remark because stability and windage are better caculated with math than eye balls. Maybe it is better than it looks since the stabilizers were traded for bilge keels.
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Old 03-05-2013, 07:25 AM   #95
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Hi guys!
Hope this link will work, but how would you compare the condition of Connda Venessa to Sovereign?
To put Connda Vanessa in the same condition as Sovereign of Malahide, berthed beside her in Washington, equipped for North American use, I would budget $2,000,000.

Two. Million. Dollars.

Don't believe me? That's OK, it's not my money.

Here's something to chew on, just for fun: the paint job alone on Sovereign will run you a minimum of $100,000.

Scott Welch
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Old 03-05-2013, 08:18 AM   #96
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... Southern Marine Shipyard in Malahide County Dublin, Ireland started in the late 1950s by converting British Admiralty surplus boats and fishing boats into private yachts. These boats were completely gutted and redone, and were robust and utilitarian...
Here is an idea to explore. Buy a fiberglass fishing boat, gut it and have a marine architect draw up detained plains for a new interior, tankage, engine, etc. Then you could have the interior just as you would like. Maybe have the work done in Mexico, as labor is cheaper?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:09 AM   #97
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I maybe wrong here but if you look at both of those malahide trawlers they sure look like the same one to me. Ones in turkey and the other in england. Tell me I'm wrong, I can take it.Larry
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:17 AM   #98
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Greetings,
Mr. LWW. Are you saying there's going to be a Nigerian listing around somewhere as well?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:29 AM   #99
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No mr RT. I'm glad I'm not looking to buy because my head is spinning and I think I'm about to loose it. Too many pics of boats is making me boat crazy. Good luck to GG and MEME and I hope they're better at keeping the details than I am.Larry
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #100
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Reading about the incredible incompetence, inexperience and poor decisions that led to this tradgedy seemed to have a rather eerie potential connection to this thread.
So.

Good post Marin

Pay heed GG/Metsea to the above quote. Yachting tragedies are replete with bad decision making by trusted Captains. The CG was very specific in their findings - the crew had insufficient experience from which to judge the competency of the Captain. The crew in fact were gushing about the experience and qualification of the Captain - cult like.
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