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Old 03-03-2013, 05:37 PM   #41
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I must admit, given GG's requirements for a family boat and keeping her long range plans in mind, that's a boat that I would definitely take a look at.
That's a lot of boat for 500 clams! (Besides, I'm a Cheoy Lee lover when it comes to long range passage makers.)
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:41 PM   #42
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OK, well here is a fiberglass boat: Hampton Yacht Group - Co-Brokerage Yacht Search - Seattle, Washington, Pacific Northwest, International Yachts For Sale=
66' Cheoy Lee 66' Long Range Trawler, Year: 1987, Current Price: US$ 449,999, cabins: 5, Number of heads: 4, Located in Alameda, CA
Thanks for the suggestion. Sopressa was on my VERY short list for a long while, until I understood the difference between a LRC and an ocean crosser. I have also learned that just because a boat may be capable of crossing doesn't mean that it should or that it was built to cross. I want a boat that was specifically built with the capability to cross.

If I am wrong, and I very well may be wrong, let me know, but I don't think that Sopressa is an ocean crosser.
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Old 03-03-2013, 05:54 PM   #43
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Galaxy Girl

Are you sure that is a Malahide? If it is, you should check that boat real well. The Malahides are very classic Trawlers and there are very few still in action today. They cost too much for me to think about having one.

I would make sure of the origin of that boat and I would hire a specialized guy to check it for me.

P.
I think it is a Malahide. This is the boat. What do you guys think?

1975 Southern Marine Malahide Trawler-Style Motor Yacht Power Boat For Sale -
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:08 PM   #44
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One thing I want to add....since you mentioned something about Florida....in one of your previous posts.... If you are going to own a wooden boat in FL...you may not be able to get insurance on it. I know, I know....someone is going to say you can....

My father in law...had a wooden sportfisher...he could not find anyone to insure it, and it wouldn't sell down here because it is wood....he ended up donating it.

Worms....
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:20 PM   #45
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The potential downside drives the price of nearly every wood boat down especially plank on frame. Now matter how much you spend on it anyone looking at one knows they will spend at least the value of it again in ten or less years just to stay even in addition to fuel, dockage and every other ordinary expense you have with a fiberglass boat. When you are done with it you will be done spending on it and by the time it sells you will probably have to finance it to make it go away.

Take what this boat costs, add the the maintenance cost you will occur over its lifetime and spend that on a fiberglass one. When you are done with it it will be dusty but not falling apart by the time it sells and someone will give you a reasonable amount for it.

Ask how I know. I have been messing around 40 to 50 year old boats since 1987 and witnessed it happen over and over again. Sorry for my blunt assessment but it is the most likely reality...

Keep in mind too that the planked hull requires diligent attention to insure it is ready for the transoceanic crossing. Spring a plank and things can get hairy. Frequent haul-outs and close inspection are required to keep them watertight and up to their designed peformance levels.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:34 PM   #46
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One thing I want to add....since you mentioned something about Florida....in one of your previous posts.... If you are going to own a wooden boat in FL...you may not be able to get insurance on it. I know, I know....someone is going to say you can....

My father in law...had a wooden sportfisher...he could not find anyone to insure it, and it wouldn't sell down here because it is wood....he ended up donating it.

Worms....
I'm in New England.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:51 PM   #47
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You can try one before you buy one. The woman that owns (owned this) was quite active on T&T a few years back, and some friends that chartered with her had a great time.

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Old 03-03-2013, 07:38 PM   #48
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I'd estimate the yard cost average yearly maintenance at $50K for the wood issues alone. Probably 1/4 that if you had the skills of Benn. With all the NE wood craftsmen available to you, button hole one of them for a sit down.
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:40 PM   #49
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If you can afford to buy something like a Malahide then maybe you can afford to do the up keep. After all you are in the wooden boat capital of the world. All you have to do is take a short trip to Mystic Sea Port Con and you'll meet some of the best in the world at wood boat maintience. It will also give you some perspective as to what you will be getting into as far as owning a massive piece of history.

I've owned 3 wood boats in my short life and I've been at both ends of the love hate relationship you'll have.

With that said and knowing what I know now I'd take the money for the initial purchase of the Malahide and the money for the next 10 years of maintence and build me a nice big Diesel Duck or something along those lines out of steel and cast off. That's just my 2 cents. Larry
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Old 03-03-2013, 07:49 PM   #50
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@Boatpoker;
Thank you for the reply, very cool pic, the boats in the background are awesome, what is the location of that??
So, yes there is actually one being refitted in RI, so if we can track the
owner down we can go visit, and yes we will do as much real contact
research as possible.

@Portuguese,
The boat is most def a malahide, a 68'.
And many of those boats are still in commission, as I have done much research. There is a gal in Seattle who owns one, Ursa Major, and does Alaskan charters, and founded 'The Classic Trawler Network' and has managed to track down many of the Malahides.

Wondering if anyone had a chance to read my post on the work done
to the Connda Venessa, and any thoughts on that work.
Would that be timely work, the caulking etc... or would that work be an
indication of past neglect, and if it was, does it mean the boat is past it's useful life, or can a wood boat in any condition be brought back with enough tender loving work, time and commitment?
Guess I am trying to fugure out whether the boat has a recent history of disrepair and neglect.
Thanks!
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:05 PM   #51
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GG & Mom,

Look, since nobody wants to talk actual numbers, I will.

First, let me lay out my credentials. I own a 60 foot wooden trawler that I did a full refit on. I've spent many hours on three different Malahides. I've advised others on buying boats in that size range. I know how much I spent on my refit, and it was several times more than I paid for the boat.

Now, as for the boat you are looking at: The initial price is completely and totally irrelevant. If I were buying a boat of this size and complexity, I would budget about $100,000 just for initial bringing-up-to-snuff work, and that's if you have the drive, talent and time to pitch in. If you are hiring labor directly, more like $150,000. Having a yard do it? $200,000. Remotely? Another $50,000 in travel, freight, etc. etc etc.

That's for a fairly basic freshen-up. If you want to do more, it gets very expensive very quickly. How expensive? Well, I have a friend who boat a boat of similar size and he decided to do a major refit. When I last heard, he was spending about $100,000 per month and he was nowhere near done.

Once she's in tip-top shape, you would want to budget about $30,000 per year or so in miscellaneous upkeep. Plus, you'll want a contingency budget of about $50,000 "just in case".

However, there's more. Handling a boat like this -- 60 feet, 60 tons -- is not simple. Trust me. Simple things like docking and anchoring are dealing with forces that will crush bones (and other boats) in a fraction of a second. That's beyond your skill level at this point, and that means that you'll have to be dealing with professional crew, and that's going to run a minimum of $50,000 per year, and quite possibly double that.

Finally, this is a simply terrible investment. Way worse than almost any other boat you could buy. It's almost totally illiquid. And I say that as I guy who knows, loves, and owns a big wooden boat.

Finally, your chance of getting insurance on this boat with you as the operator is zero. I had 30 years of experience boating; I'd owned other other wooden boats; I had chartered; I had a spotless survey from a surveyor the insurance company knew and trusted; and I still had to do a two-day check-out voyage with a licensed captain before I could get insurance.

I'll say it again: Get a Grand Banks 49. Learn the boat. Learn to boat. Then think about a bigger boat.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:14 PM   #52
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Goodness, Goodness - GG and momma Meatsea... Instead of wood construction or even a cold-lam unit... get yourselves a real good condition FRP boat that was built by a top quality builder. You will be very pleased in the long run.... IMHO. - Art
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:25 PM   #53
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IslandEagle, That sir is not the information we like to have here! Just kidding, those are some scary figures. I bought my big wooden trawler after a fire. People told me it would cost a fortune and I didn't care. My dream was at hand and I wasn't going to listen to anyone. I don't think I will have a problem getting insurance, i've talked to several underwriters who would insure my vessel after an out of the water survey. I would have to disagree with your figures all around, but I am doing the work myself or using my people (I own a construction company) to do the work. Were not salty shipwrights but we have common since and the boat thus far is in very good shape. I do hire people to do the other work that I can't do (electrician, fiberglass, welding). Can you elaborate on the $100k/month yard bill and what it was that was done? I'm in the wrong business.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:26 PM   #54
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Painting.
Mainly hull I am talking about.
Above water line timber boat can be painted with normal oil based house paint or use International Toplac for an even better finnish.
Usually antifoul 12 monthly due to annual haulout to check for worms
Teredo worms a tropical worm that loves wood. Bores its way in and accross multiple planks . ( Ilive in the tropics and keep my boat in the tropics, timber planked ) no worms in 17 years.

From Wikepedia
Description

Teredo navalis from Popular Science Monthly, September 1878


Removed from its burrow, the fully grown teredo ranges from several centimetres to about a metre in length, depending on the species. The body is cylindrical, slender, naked and superficially vermiform, meaning "worm-shaped". In spite of their slender, worm-like forms shipworms nonetheless possess the characteristic morphology of bivalves. The ctinidia lie mainly within the branchial siphon, through which the animal pumps the water that passes over the gills.
The two siphons are very long and protrude from the posterior end of the animal. Where they leave the end of the main part of the body the siphons pass between a pair of calcareous plates called pallets. If the animal is alarmed, it withdraws the siphons and the pallets protectively block the opening of the tunnel.
The pallets are not to be confused with the two valves of the main shell, which are at the anterior end of the animal. Because they are the organs that the animal applies to boring its tunnel, they generally are located at the tunnel's end. They are borne on the slightly thickened, muscular anterior end of the cylindrical body and they are roughly triangular in shape and markedly concave on their interior surfaces. The outer surfaces are convex and in most species are deeply sculpted into sharp grinding surfaces with which the animals bore their way through the wood or similar medium in which they live and feed. The valves of shipworms are separated and the aperture of the mantle lies between them. The small "foot" (corresponding to the foot of a clam) can protrude through the aperture.
The shipworm lives in waters with oceanic salinity. Accordingly, it is rare in the brackish Baltic Sea, where wooden shipwrecks are preserved for much longer than in the oceans.[citation needed]

Wooden boats are a love affair more than anything else.
Insurance from what I have seen it would be a lot easie to insure it down her in Aus than else where,my boat is only 49" but a few of my friends also have wooden boats and one is 62 " and he has no trouble with insurance and we don't have to have anything other than a recreational boat dricers lic. as long as the vessel is not being used commercially.
Cheers
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:30 PM   #55
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@IslandEagle, LWW, sunchaser, caltexflanc, bglad;

Thanks for your candidly honest & forthright advice, definitely what
is needed @ this point in time, good food for thought.

So then the refitting that was stated below was minor or not to be believed???
The 2006 refit sounds fairly comprehensive. Future upkeep & maintenance
aside, what is stated below is??????

" In 1999 her present owners refitted CONNDA VENNESSA extensively. She had new generators, new caulking in the hull and in the deck, a new galley, a new mechanical bilge pump, new masts reinforced with steel for increased strength, the bridge and engine room were brought up to date. The entire yacht was improved at great cost to keep all her ship-sized systems in peak mechanical and structural condition."

"In 2006/07 CONNDA VENNESSA was totally refitted, work to the structure included -
Hull completely stripped to bare wood, rotten planks (approximately 3 sqm) replaced, the hull planks were re-fastened and the whole hull was completely re-caulked. The non-operational stabilizer fins were removed and 2 x 2 new bilge keels were added. The hull was faired and painted. The yacht is single plank wood construction and therefore some movement is expected, hence a semi-commercial paint finish was chosen.
Areas of the superstructure, where rot was found or suspected, were replaced with marine plywood and protected with fibreglass and epoxy where required.
All windows are replaced, all window frames replaced and varnished. All portholes were chrome plated and fitted with new windows.
A completely new deck was been laid both on main and bridge decks, an area of approximately 120 sq metres."
Thanks!
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:44 PM   #56
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Galaxy & Meatsea-I would like to add a bit to Island Eagle's excellent post. You are correct in thinking that the Malahide can indeed go anywhere. I looked at the listing and it does seem that alot of extensive work has been done relatively recently on her. From reading just about all of your posts, you seem determined to have ocean crossing ability and you seem committed to purchasing a boat you will own for a long time. Just the fact that such expensive work was needed on Connda Venessa at an age of appoximately 30 should clue you in on the potentail long-range cost of owning such a boat. Like Isalnd Eagle, I have had decent experience with wooden boats. My first wife's family has built and worked wooden shrimpboats for over 75 years. Wooden boats can indeed last a long time-the first boat a great-uncle built some 60 years ago is still being actively shrimped by his grandson. Even for a commercail shrimpboat, it is an expensive proposition to keep it up. Along with two partners, in the late 70's early 80's, we bought and rehabbed old wooden Trumpy's-as elegant and well built a wooden hull as there was. The most interesting fact we discovered in researching virtually every Trumpy then afloat was-the average turnover for them was less than 4 years. People bought them because they are beautiful, well-biult boats. But, the cost of maintenance overwhelmed them at about 3 years and the boats went up for sale. Look up the sale history of almost any wooden motoryacht/trawler and yuo find a similar history. Maintaining and repairing a wwooden boat is always an adventure. Search here for Scary's thread on working on a 58' Chris-every time he pulled a plank, 3 new problems cropped up. That is life with a wooden boat. In my mind, there are better and more suitable alternatives.

From your comments it seems that you checked off the Cheoy Lee primarily because you were concerned about its ocean crossing ability. With proper attention to detail, weather, route planning and the like, that boat can go anywhere the Malahide can go. If you are considering crossing the Atlantic, the longest run is about 1800 miles, 10 days at 7-8 knots. The Cheoy Lee can do that and do it comfortably. It will cost a lot, and I mean a lot, less to own and operate than the Malahide.

Don't know how much help we here are, but you have my best wishes and I hope you keep us updated.
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Old 03-03-2013, 08:46 PM   #57
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We owned a 1939 40' plank on frame wooden boat for 22 years. She was in so-so shape when we bought her. With very occassional paid major work from a local shipyard well versed in large wooden boat building and maintenance, as well as free moonlighting labor and advice from skilled wooden boat friends (Maine has a good supply of skilled wooden boat workers), we gradually upgraded the boat and, when the time came to sell her, we sold her for more than we had paid for her initially. (Not counting what we had put into her over the years). We did most of the maintenance ourselves, including frame and plank repair/replacement.

A Malahide is a whole different ballgame.

The local shipyard did some stem, frame and plank repair on a Malahide fairly recently and not only were the size of the timbers involved impressive and on a much, much larger scale than on our old boat, but also the labor, skill and cost involved vs similar work that we had done on our relatively lightly built boat.

Such work is truly a skilled wooden boat "yard job" and $100-200k+ is very easy to blow through every few years on a proper maintenance schedule on a Malahide type per the local yard.

If that is in your budget, fine. They are great boats. Kept up, they will take you anywhere.
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:18 PM   #58
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Here are several steel trawlers. Not sure what to think of them. I guess the second one is a sailboat?


Features 4 cabins, huge galley & salon, twin Cat s, bow thruster, 6.5kw genset, inverter, furnace, Price: $197,000 canadian dollars.
72' Steel Pilothouse Trawler for sale in Duncan, British Columbia - Sailingboatsincanada

Long range steel cruise motorsailer trawler for sale. Length 18m, wide 5.5 m., draft 2.4 m., Engine Iveco Aifo SRM45 400Hp. Autopilot, plotter, VHF, Radar, Navtex etc Raymarine. 5 cabins, 18 berths, sauna. Sails 125m2. Cruise speed 8 knots. Very good condition. Fuel 4000 litres, water 2500 litres. Fuel consumption at cruise speed 18 l/h.
Price 170 000 EUR. $220,000 dollars
http://www.marifor.net/index.php/mar...ow_ad&adid=171
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Old 03-03-2013, 09:31 PM   #59
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@Islandeagle, art, (oh art, please don't call me mama, I'm prob younger than most of you here, sounds old, which I'm not)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art View Post
Goodness, Goodness - GG and momma Meatsea... Instead of wood construction or even a cold-lam unit... get yourselves a real good condition FRP boat that was built by a top quality builder. You will be very pleased in the long run.... IMHO. - Art
Naturally, we would like a low maintenance, easy upkeep, safe boat which I guess is the implication above by going with fglass. However, can you name or point the way to one that is a true proven ocean crosser?
We're not looking for the easy way, least work type boat, however we are not looking for a money pit either, ergo the divulgence of possible prospects, as we are looking for a true passagemaker, one that we will feel safe getting underway on a possible world voyage with our loving family.

We are not trying to reinvent the wheel here. AND at the expense of being redundant, we will not be undertaking any voyage on our own,
but with a certified 100,000 ton CG captain and crew, so please, in all due respect, do not insult our intelligence by stating the obvious once more, and making us defend ourselves, yet again.
People do this sort of thing everyday, and how we choose to spend our money is our choice.

Scare tactics will not work.
We do so appreciate anyone playing the devil's advocate , and stating the
plain facts or whereabouts of possible cost, we welcome that.


@THD, thanks for addressing my specific inquiries! Very refreshing to
read some practical honest advice based on experience without having to sift thru the 'why we shouldn't's comments' Good sound advice.
@swampu
We own an investment co too, therefore have access to plenty of
tradesman. Thank you.
@LWW, thanks for your honesty & good solid advice.
Meme
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Old 03-03-2013, 10:15 PM   #60
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[QUOTE=meatsea;138802]oh art, please don't call me mama, I'm prob younger than most of you here, sounds old, which I'm not

Dear youthful Meme,

By using the word "mama" I meant no reference to your age in either direction; rather simply as a pleasant slang-term toward your status of being GG's mother. Sorry you felt somewhat offended... Congrats on being a young mother!

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