Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-25-2018, 11:22 AM   #1
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,415
Winter storage without oil

Hello folks,
Time to winterize is coming soon for me and it brings me a question.
Would there be any issue to keep the boat without oil in the pan for winter?
As soon as the boat is out of water I plan to make some maintenance like changing all oil hoses, water hoses and rebuilt support for the oil coolers.
As this will require me to remove oil first I was wondering if there would be any negative effect to keep oil pan empty and refill only before going back to water next spring.

Any input will be appreciated.

Thank you!

L
__________________
Advertisement

Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 11:43 AM   #2
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,194
The only negative I can think of is forgetting its empty and starting her up! Otherwise, no.
__________________

__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 11:51 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Bkay's Avatar
 
City: Reedville, VA
Country: United States
Vessel Model: Beals Island lobster boat
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 280
Sorry, I'm a newcomer here and don't have any bona fides, but I would advise against it. First, when you change the oil you let it run enough to circulate the new oil through the engine. I have to believe that displaces much of the old oil along with many of the contaminants. This would leave a nice coating of oil on the internal components.

Otherwise, simply draining the oil (or leaving the old oil in the engine) would leave all of the old oil on the surface parts. I can't help but feel that's a bad idea (although I confess I have no particular expertise to back up my feeling).
Bkay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 12:06 PM   #4
Guru
 
djmarchand's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct/Punta Gorda, Fl
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Atlas Pompano 23
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 4,646
I believe that the old advice to store an engine for the winter with new oil has been outdated by the switch to ultra low sulfur oil.


So, no technical problem with draining the oil pan, but I would put a tag on the starter switch to that effect. You never know what might happen to you and who might start the engine next spring.


David
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 12:07 PM   #5
Veteran Member
 
Dcbeach's Avatar
 
City: Stamford Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Salty Lady
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_tribal View Post
Hello folks,

Time to winterize is coming soon for me and it brings me a question.

Would there be any issue to keep the boat without oil in the pan for winter?

As soon as the boat is out of water I plan to make some maintenance like changing all oil hoses, water hoses and rebuilt support for the oil coolers.

As this will require me to remove oil first I was wondering if there would be any negative effect to keep oil pan empty and refill only before going back to water next spring.



Any input will be appreciated.



Thank you!



L


I’m not sure why your thinking that you need to drain all the oil to do those items.
I would change my oil, run the engine then winterize. You’ll probably lose a quart or so in the process of your planned maintenance. But you will have the piece of mind that your engine is well protected for the winter with clean oil. Plus you get the benefit of wiping up relatively clean oil after those two drops hit the bilge.
I just changed out my coolers and hoses and lost very little oil..... blood on the other hand....... gawd do I hate hose clamps!!!!!
Dcbeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 12:10 PM   #6
Veteran Member
 
Dcbeach's Avatar
 
City: Stamford Ct
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Salty Lady
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcbeach View Post
I’m not sure why your thinking that you need to drain all the oil to do those items.
I would change my oil, run the engine then winterize. You’ll probably lose a quart or soon the process of your planned maintenance. But you will have the piece of mind that your engine is will protected for the winter with clean oil. Plus you get the benefit of wiping up relatively clean oil after those two drops hit the bilge.
I just changed out my coolers and hoses and lost very little oil..... blood on the other hand....... gawd do I hate hose clamps!!!!!


I also hate auto spell check!!!!!!!
Pardon the spelling———-so, not soon—/
Well protected not, will protected......
Dcbeach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 03:23 PM   #7
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bkay View Post
Sorry, I'm a newcomer here and don't have any bona fides, but I would advise against it. First, when you change the oil you let it run enough to circulate the new oil through the engine. I have to believe that displaces much of the old oil along with many of the contaminants. This would leave a nice coating of oil on the internal components.

Otherwise, simply draining the oil (or leaving the old oil in the engine) would leave all of the old oil on the surface parts. I can't help but feel that's a bad idea (although I confess I have no particular expertise to back up my feeling).
I really don't think it makes any difference, old or new. Dino oil drains away leaving virtually no oil on anything, basically dry.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 03:25 PM   #8
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dcbeach View Post

I’m not sure why your thinking that you need to drain all the oil to do those items.
I would change my oil, run the engine then winterize. You’ll probably lose a quart or soon the process of your planned maintenance. But you will have the piece of mind that your engine is will protected for the winter with clean oil. Plus you get the benefit of wiping up relatively clean oil after those two drops hit the bilge.
I just changed out my coolers and hoses and lost very little oil..... blood on the other hand....... gawd do I hate hose clamps!!!!!
Why is the engine well-protected with new oil over the winter? It all drains off into the sump leaving virtually all parts with no residual coating.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 03:32 PM   #9
Guru
 
Cigatoo's Avatar
 
City: Narragansett Bay
Country: New England
Vessel Model: Grand Banks 36
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 708
“As soon as the boat is out of water I plan to make some maintenance like changing all oil hoses, water hoses and rebuilt support for the oil coolers.”
Not sure why any of this requires removing oil. Oil will drain to lowest point which is the engine oil pan. Any leftover in the coolers will remain there whether you drain the oil from the pan or not.
Cigatoo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 05:35 PM   #10
Guru
 
alormaria's Avatar
 
City: Trenton
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,106
I doubt if it makes any difference at all. But do what you feel is right.
__________________
Al Johnson
34' Marine Trader
"Angelina"
alormaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 09:22 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Anacortes
Country: USA
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 697
Drain away, only downside is forgetting.
ghost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2018, 11:41 PM   #12
Dauntless Award
 
Wxx3's Avatar
 
City: New York, NY
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Dauntless
Vessel Model: Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,696
So, for those who are saying there is not residual oil on any parts, what do you consider residual?

Take off your cam cover and rub your nice clean white shirt on all the surfaces.

Post the picture showing no "residual" oil.
__________________
Richard on Dauntless,
New York

a Kadey Krogen 42 currently: https://share.garmin.com/dauntless
Blog:
https://dauntlessatsea.com
Wxx3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 05:09 AM   #13
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,356
The usual procedure drain while hot , refill and restart leaves the oil pump full of oil.

In the spring the oil pump , even submerged in the pan may take longer to fill with cold oil and create pressure to lube and spray inside the engine.

Synthetic drains off more than regular oils , and perhaps straight weight might leave more on the cylinder walls than thinner multi grade?
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:36 AM   #14
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wxx3 View Post
So, for those who are saying there is not residual oil on any parts, what do you consider residual?

Take off your cam cover and rub your nice clean white shirt on all the surfaces.

Post the picture showing no "residual" oil.
A good test I suppose but don't wipe alĺ surfaces, just the vertically-oriented surfaces. Here's a question: why is it that, supposedly, 90% of engine wear comes from engine start-ups? Might it be because the lube oil has drained away? Methinks so. By the way, the chemical properties of synthetic oil are such that it leaves a residual film. Do a simple test. Take two socket wrenches. Coat one in your preferred dino oil and one in a synthetic diesel oil. Cover to simulate a valve cover. Come back in a month and let us know the results. I am doing the Loop right now or I would do it myself.

Here's another BTW. I just received the results of an oil analysis after 343 hours of use on a synthetic oil. Second time tested. Testing facility recommended continued use, again. TBN was almost eight (8), viscosity spot-on, soot levels within parameter, same as in the first test. Diesel oil TBN generally starts at twelve (12). Oil is still doing it's acidity mitigation with TBN levels as low as two (2) but I think oil analysis houses would recommend changing the oil at about four (4) TBN.

I changed the oil filter after the first test. However, I did go ahead and change the oil before having received the results of the second test because we were laid up in Charlevoix, Michigan for six (6) days due to high winds on Lake Michigan so I had time on my hands. My engines are Lehman 120s.

As far as basing oil changes on test results, our military does that as do many managers of large fleets of vehicles. Large fleets and large vehicles with large engines use lots of oil and there is a labor cost as well. Why throw away oil that is still able to do its job? Soot load? No. That is tested. Change the filter and go boating.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:40 AM   #15
Guru
 
catalinajack's Avatar
 
City: Edgewater, MD
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Catalina Jack
Vessel Model: Defever 44
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by FF View Post
The usual procedure drain while hot , refill and restart leaves the oil pump full of oil.

In the spring the oil pump , even submerged in the pan may take longer to fill with cold oil and create pressure to lube and spray inside the engine.

Synthetic drains off more than regular oils , and perhaps straight weight might leave more on the cylinder walls than thinner multi grade?
Just the opposite. Synthetic stays, dino goes. It's the chemistry of synthetics that makes it cling. The molecules are all structurally the same which causes it to cling to surfaces. Do a little research and you will discover that you assumption is incorrect.
catalinajack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 07:55 AM   #16
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,870
Some intentionally designed additives in quality diesel oil provide a cling factor. Or so says the advertising stuff like " Isothyn Technology" or lube oil forums (yes, they do exist) postings. If it were not for starts and stops our lightly used diesels may well rival shore based gensets for longevity.

But as Tony Athens has said many times, he has not seen a diesel wear out due to oil breakdown. His mantra is correct propping and maintain the seawater side. I believe him.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 08:12 AM   #17
FF
Guru
 
FF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 19,356
"Just the opposite. Synthetic stays, dino goes."

There are varying opinions , but that's where DA Book (the shop manual) for your engine comes in.

Detroit prefers special preserving oils for long term periods of out of service.

They sell preserving oil , but the simplest can be a local airport , where piston engines are found.

https://www.phillips66lubricants.com...gine%20Oil_BMM


"But as Tony Athens has said many times, he has not seen a diesel wear out due to oil breakdown."


Breakdown is not the problem , rusting and pitting of cylinders in storage causes lower compression and white smoke , even with a warm engine.
FF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 10:22 AM   #18
Guru
 
Xsbank's Avatar
 
City: Pender Harbour, BC
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Gwaii Haanas
Vessel Model: Vancouver Shipyards Custom Aluminum 52
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 3,194
When you put the oil back in it in the spring, just pull the lead to the shut-off solenoid and use the starter until you get oil pressure. Stop, reconnect, fire away.

Leaving your engine empty for 6 months won't hurt a thing. Rusting and pitting? Maybe in a long time but pretty much every boat out here stays in the water, is shut off in the Fall and is not started again until Spring. In fact its better to NOT start them because they will not warm up properly without a load.
__________________
Don't believe everything that you think.
What are we offended about today?
Xsbank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 10:44 AM   #19
TF Site Team
 
Bay Pelican's Avatar
 
City: Chicago, IL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bay Pelican
Vessel Model: Krogen 42
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,994
Excuse my caution but I have seen or heard of almost every crazy thing happening in boat yards so my suggestion is a sign on the helm in both English and French that the engine lacks oil and is not to be started under any circumstance. If possible remove the key.

This is especially true if you are having any work done on the boat during the winter.
__________________
Marty
Bay Pelican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 10:50 AM   #20
Guru
 
Lou_tribal's Avatar
 
City: Quebec
Country: Canada
Vessel Name: Bleuvet
Vessel Model: Custom Built
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,415
For SURE I will put a sign saying DO NOT START if I choose to leave it empty of oil. I did the same last spring when I disconnected coolant hoses. Knowing the clowns working at my marina I do not take any risk anymore

L
__________________

Lou_tribal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012