That will buff right out - boat hits ferry

[Portage_Bay]

Not sure that was prop wash, I was thinking thrusters

The Washington State double ended ferries don't have thrusters.

It will come down to this. If both parties had done all the right things, no collision would have occurred. It is the responsibility of both vessels to avoid collision.

Yes, that's it exactly. We'll see what the authorities have to say.

If the video tells the whole story both sides effed up.

 

[Max Simmons]

Anyone know the brand and model of the yacht? She would appear to be built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Our old Albin-25 is rugged, but eventually we might want a larger vessel.

I'm thinking Delta. Lines similar to a buddies 50'er.

 

[IRENE]

Anyone know the brand and model of the yacht? She would appear to be built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Our old Albin-25 is rugged, but eventually we might want a larger vessel.

Concur on the brick sh**house. I have personally watched FAR more damage from much less energy transfer. Impressive.

 

[78puget-trawler]

I watched it again and in my mind the ferry is certainly partially responsible for the collision. He was still moving ahead when it happened and more importantly he did not give full power to the forward eng until the collision, maybe a few seconds before but not nearly as soon as he should have. And he could have altered course to port but there is no indication that he did. He was assuming that the small boat was going to wake up some day. Rash assumption on his part. Its all about making the right moves early, neither did.

 

[Rusty]

Watch out for ferries!

Years ago when we put our first autopilot in our first boat, my father in law made sure we understood that we still needed to pay attention to where we were going and what was around us. (I think we already knew that.) A gentle reminder for the owners of Nap Tyme.

https://youtu.be/mtZJ__8PVDU

That looks like it was a bit embarrassing.

More details here

 

[Rusty]

Sorry I don't see your post about this until I posted the same thing.

 

[Al]

You just have to wonder!! My God, what an embarrassment this will be for him. He also may wish to review bookings in a Tibetan monk rehab for the duration.

Al-

 

[Bob Cofer]

Amazing amount of information you all have gleaned from this video! Someone should forward this entire thread to the hearing board when it convenes and save them the bother of reviewing any actual facts.

Good grief!

 

[Moby Nick]

I like the configuration and style of the NAP TYME, in addition to her obvious stout construction. No flying bridge is a plus for me.

 

[menzies]

I like the configuration and style of the NAP TYME, in addition to her obvious stout construction. No flying bridge is a plus for me.

Rubbish old chap.

If he had been napping on his flying bridge he would have been woken by the horn blasts!

 

[Conrad]

Tough boat though!

 

[78puget-trawler]

Amazing amount of information you all have gleaned from this video! Someone should forward this entire thread to the hearing board when it convenes and save them the bother of reviewing any actual facts.

Good grief!

Well whoop de doo! Stated nothing but the obvious.

 

[BruceK]

Sydney Harbour Ferries plying ferry routes display a red diamond,it gives them rights over pretty much everything (though some dispute it). Aggression level varies with the helmsman on duty, but they are big, steel, quick,and none too maneuverable.A Manly route ferry, double ended like the Staten Island ferries, ploughed into a becalmed fleet of racing Star sailboats,forcing a crew into the water, then went into reverse using the prop at what had been the bow,with very nasty consequences.

 

[ulysses]

Did anyone notice the type of anchor that he had ?

 

[Philkoury]

The other thing about Washington State Ferries in my experience, is that they do not monitor Channel 16. I've called them many times on 16th with no results, but eventually raise them on 13. They also monitor the Vessel Traffic Service channel for their area.

Anybody have any different experience?

FYI the requirement to monitor CH16 is waived when operating under a VTS.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Our state ferries are usually not in the traffic lanes, but rather mostly crossing them. In Puget Sound the lanes go north and south and the ferries mostly east and west. I have never worked on the ferries but I cannot imagine that they don't monitor ch 16 like every other ship out there. It is the emergency contact channel after all.

 

[Wild Blue]

FYI the requirement to monitor CH16 is waived when operating under a VTS.

Thanks Phil. That would explain it.

So I guess if you hail a boat on 16 and don't get an answer, best to hail again on the local VTS channel.

 

[78puget-trawler]

Thanks Phil. That would explain it.

So I guess if you hail a boat on 16 and don't get an answer, best to hail again on the local VTS channel.

13 or 14. Chances are they listen and ignore except emergency calls.

 

[ulysses]

I believe that would be channel 14.

 

[SoWhat]

"The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way."
per common sense regulation 3 CCS 23 (A).

Federal rules call not keeping a proper lookout neglect,
Federal rules also state you must keep clear of any vessel restricted in it's ability to maneuver. A large ferry may be unable to turn or stop quickly and could easily fall under that category.
When an empty tanker is leaving Boston Harbor and gives you 5 short quick toots, there is no doubt or misunderstanding. He can't stop and you will be run over if you don't move.

 

[SoWhat]

Anyone know the brand and model of the yacht? She would appear to be built like the proverbial brick outhouse. Our old Albin-25 is rugged, but eventually we might want a larger vessel.

Hull might have been rugged but I bet he had one huge mess to clean up in the cabins.

 

[ulysses]

"The heavier vessel always has the right-of-way."
per common sense regulation 3 CCS 23 (A).

Federal rules call not keeping a proper lookout neglect,
Federal rules also state you must keep clear of any vessel restricted in it's ability to maneuver. A large ferry may be unable to turn or stop quickly and could easily fall under that category.
When an empty tanker is leaving Boston Harbor and gives you 5 short quick toots, there is no doubt or misunderstanding. He can't stop and you will be run over if you don't move.

I believe that would be negligence rather than neglect.
Furthermore the "restricted in it's ability to maneuver" should in no way apply to the ferry. It is a double ended, 6,000 hp, steering and flanking rudders and is probably one of the most maneuverable vessels in Puget sound. It is not restricted in its draft having about 10 feet of draft, nor restricted in its maneuverability due to its tasks, such as buoy tending or transferring cargo while underway. Neither was it operating in any established traffic lanes. It was and is a protected vessel probably due to a homeland security effort that allows a safe non-encroachment zone of 1500 yards.

 

[Portage_Bay]

A vessel does not have to be traveling in the lanes to be required to participate in the VTS. Vessels required to participate in VTS will not be required to monitor 16. Many will not because they will have 13, the VTS channel and a working channel all going at once. 16 tends to be over crowded so many will shut 16 off.

Best when trying to reach the big guys use 13. You can use the VTS channel but you have to know which channel is used in what location. 13 is a sure shot.

USCG sectors monitor 16. Should an emergency call come in on 16 and there is no response to the CG's call for assistance they will if need be call vessels on the VTS channel or 13 and ask them to render assistance.

A handy reference for those of us running in the VTS areas. Recreational Boaters VTS manual

 

[klee wyck]

Look, I am in no mood to beat up on the recreational boater in this incident. I expect he is already having a pretty bad day.
On the other hand, I would never expect a ferry or any other working/commercial vessel to ever need to think about me in a recreational vessel. I would be mortified to think that I ever caused one of them any reason to alter what they were doing because of something that I was doing. I have assumed that any working vessel always has the ROW in practice regardless of how the detail of the code might be read or interpreted.
They have stuff to do and I generally leave them so much latitude that stand on or give way is not an operative question.
For this reason, and considering that Puget Sound is a reasonably busy place in commercial terms, I always monitor both 16 (CG) and 14 (VTS) when I am underway on the Sound. The ferries generally call in to VTS for traffic when they are about to depart. Beyond that, I always assume they are about to depart when I am crossing a route and they are in the bay. You can mostly get a look at the state of loading/unloading process as you approach and if the flap is up (not loading or unloading), I stop and wait to cross the path until I am sure what they are doing and would never consider leaving the helm when in their proximity. I can summon no urge to defend the recreational boater or question the ferry in this case unless the recreational boater was having a heart attack.

Bad form if not illegal.

The entrance to Eagle Harbor can be interesting in this regard as the ferries which frequent there move about twice as fast as I do and the mouth is not real wide. One time having moved over in the channel to let one go by I turned into its path after he passed. Too soon as it turned out. With my deepish draft and full keel hitting his prop wash at 90 degrees I got knocked down enough to take some water onto the well deck in dead calm! That force just grabbed my keel and over I went.
That will reinforce your respect for those big boys.

 

[SoWhat]

Furthermore the "restricted in it's ability to maneuver" should in no way apply to the ferry. It is a double ended, 6,000 hp, steering and flanking rudders and is probably one of the most maneuverable vessels in Puget sound. It is not restricted in its draft having about 10 feet of draft, nor restricted in its maneuverability due to its tasks, such as buoy tending or transferring cargo while underway. Neither was it operating in any established traffic lanes. It was and is a protected vessel probably due to a homeland security effort that allows a safe non-encroachment zone of 1500 yards.

Maybe the 'restricted' tag shouldn't apply but it easily could. Federal rules do not narrowly define 'restricted' as you are attempting to do.
Power boat may have breached DHS security and safety zone but the navigational rules he breached are probably more relevant.

 

[ulysses]

Maybe the 'restricted' tag shouldn't apply but it easily could. Federal rules do not narrowly define 'restricted' as you are attempting to do.
Power boat may have breached DHS security and safety zone but the navigational rules he breached are probably more relevant.

The navigational rule the smaller vessel breached was not standing a watch. Being in the Head while underway. I would think some maritime attorney could draw a conclusion that the vessel at that point was not under command and therefore one more reason the ferry should have avoided the small boat. (NUC).
I believe you will find both the Federal law interpretation and the Washington State Ferry DOT will not agree that the vessel is in anyway restricted in its maneuverablity. That would indeed open a whole other barrel of worms. Those ferries are about the nimblest vessels out there. They have a h.p. rating grater than tow boats that operate at 50 times the tonnage and 10 times the length and breadth. They are built to go into tight openings in varying degrees of current and wind conditions.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I understand that. Five blasts Says that he doesn't understand the other vessels intentions. However if the ferry felt that he was the give way vessel he would have been figuring out a way to give way and not so concerned about giving five blasts. Wouldn't you say?

No I wouldn't. In this case either vessel could be giving the "danger or in doubt signal".

He actually should have been sounding the horn and maneuvering to avoid a collision.

But I'm guessing he figured there was no way the operator of that could not see him and wasn't going to turn away before he would hit him. So he waited to long to take action to avoid the collision.

While understandable, it could be a bone of contention if this goes to court.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

The navigational rule the smaller vessel breached was not standing a watch. Being in the Head while underway. I would think some maritime attorney could draw a conclusion that the vessel at that point was not under command and therefore one more reason the ferry should have avoided the small boat. (NUC).

I don't think that will fly, no day shapes displayed.

 

[dhays]

I am late to this party but the collision occurred right off the Tacoma Yacht Club. That has been my marine backyard since I was a kid.

FWIW...
That class of ferry will normally be going around 10 knots at that part of its run. It is a 2 engine double ended vessel. The only thing these ferries do is to shuttle between the docks.

Channel 14 is the traffic frequency in that part of Puget Sound.

There aren't any channels in Puget Sound that have been given the designation of "narrow channel" by the coast guard. However, there are a few that would meet the criterion. Two that I'm familiar with and that have significant ferry traffic are Eagle Harbor and Rich Passage. It is always interesting to figure out how to squeeze out of the way of the Hyak as she cruises through Rich Passage at better than 17 knots.

WA State Ferries don't follow the Traffic Separation Lanes so they don't have the privileges of the commercial vessels that are restricted to them.

Puget Sound does have a security and safety zone established that applies to WA state ferries. Within 500 yards you are supposed to reduce your speed to dead slow and not to get withing 100 yards of the ferry at all without the permission of the CG or the ferry captain. This is pretty difficult at the Pt Defiance dock as the exit for the Tacoma Yacht Club and Breakwater basin are right next to the ferry dock, along with a boat ramp. The captain of the ferry would really dislike it if every boater checked with him before going by. It is also hard to tell when the ferry is about to leave and by the time they give the whistle that they are about to depart Pt. Defiance, you may be right in their path. The Tacoma boaters and the ferry captains generally do a good job looking out for one another.

Personally, I treat every ferry as if they were in a traffic lane. If my actions cause them to divert even from a long way off, I feel I have not me my own responsibility. I would never assume that I was the stand on vessel when it came to a WA State Ferry. I will be eager to see the CG report.

Hard to tell from the video, but it looks to me as if the ferry captain had backed the engines long before the collision. Those ferries take a while to slow down and aren't the most maneuverable.

Given where the collision took place, Nap Tyme much have been without a watch for a long time. The ferry would have left Pt. Defiance terminal long before the collision. No excuse for Nap Tyme in this at all.

Nap Tyme is from Gig Harbor, where I keep my own boat. I am curious now to get a glimpse of him to see what kind of damage there is.

 

[eyschulman]

Both parties share responsibility and a % will be allotted to each. I cross ferries at docks frequently here in the PNW and always keep a full alert status when doing so. I try not to cross the projected path of a docked ferry too close to the ship and keep a sharp look out for the tell tail puff of smoke and the horn when they depart the dock. The most dangerous time for a crossing vessel is near the dock. Once the ferry is in open water there is more time to gauge the speed and relative path of a potential collision. My advise is to stay clear of the docks even if it means going a bit out of your way.