pearlwindham
Veteran Member
Oh yeah
Just some plastic got messed up you can't regulate............"what If"
Just some plastic got messed up you can't regulate............"what If"
That will buff right out - boat hits ferry
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power for forward props is available immediately.There are four main propulsion motors coupled to DC generators.The actual propulsion is by DC motors.That is how the ferries stop coming into the slips in New York,by engaging the forward motors.There is no actual reverse rotation on the props.
Wifey B: Think of this. For a car, in most states, you must take driver's training of 30 hours or so, then you get a learner's permit, then a license. To drive a boat you can go online spend a few hours and zip, you got it.
A 6 Pack is 8 days but requires 360 days of sea time.
But maybe a three or four day program should be required, not an online thing. Maybe rules and things online but a lot more extensive and the testing done in person somewhere so you can't look up the answers. Then one day of on the water training. That's virtually nothing but it's infinitely more than required today. I know the first objection, that it makes it too expensive to get into boating. Well, maybe if you want to operate a boat, you do have to pay a little upfront. Really if you did one day with two students or two days with four the cost might be as low as $100. Will you then be trained? Of course not. But you might have been introduced to boating a little. Maybe you take it on a lake and it qualifies you for lakes but you have to retake the on boat part for coastal. Maybe you have to get a learners permit and operate with a licensed boater for some period.
Perhaps there's some gain by just impressing upon people you can't just jump in a boat and consider yourself capable of operating it. Buying a boat at Marine Max does not quality you.
You don't get to drive a car without passing a test on site, without your sight checked and without a driving test, yet permission to operate a boat requires somewhere between nothing and virtually nothing depending on where you are.
There are a lot of people here who have initially gotten a training captain to teach them and everyone I've known to do that has talked about how much it helped. We had years, well hubby had more years, of operating boats on lakes. We got our licenses quickly but.....and here's the big but....not a big butt...a big but....We went over two months of boating at least 5 days a week with a captain, before we ever took a boat out on the coast by ourselves. Now, I don't expect people to copy that, but at least a little. That shows how much we respected the skills and knowledge of others and recognized how much we needed to learn and four years and thousands of miles and hundreds of days later, we're still learning.
So, here's my recommendation. Online studying and testing but more extensive than now. Then you go to a licensing site and take a test there. With that you then are required to get 16 hours on a training boat with 4 students.
A 6 Pack is 8 days but requires 360 days of sea time.
But maybe a three or four day program should be required, not an online thing. Maybe rules and things online but a lot more extensive and the testing done in person somewhere so you can't look up the answers. Then one day of on the water training. That's virtually nothing but it's infinitely more than required today. I know the first objection, that it makes it too expensive to get into boating. Well, maybe if you want to operate a boat, you do have to pay a little upfront. Really if you did one day with two students or two days with four the cost might be as low as $100. Will you then be trained? Of course not. But you might have been introduced to boating a little. Maybe you take it on a lake and it qualifies you for lakes but you have to retake the on boat part for coastal. Maybe you have to get a learners permit and operate with a licensed boater for some period.
Perhaps there's some gain by just impressing upon people you can't just jump in a boat and consider yourself capable of operating it. Buying a boat at Marine Max does not quality you.
You don't get to drive a car without passing a test on site, without your sight checked and without a driving test, yet permission to operate a boat requires somewhere between nothing and virtually nothing depending on where you are.
There are a lot of people here who have initially gotten a training captain to teach them and everyone I've known to do that has talked about how much it helped. We had years, well hubby had more years, of operating boats on lakes. We got our licenses quickly but.....and here's the big but....not a big butt...a big but....We went over two months of boating at least 5 days a week with a captain, before we ever took a boat out on the coast by ourselves. Now, I don't expect people to copy that, but at least a little. That shows how much we respected the skills and knowledge of others and recognized how much we needed to learn and four years and thousands of miles and hundreds of days later, we're still learning.
So, here's my recommendation. Online studying and testing but more extensive than now. Then you go to a licensing site and take a test there. With that you then are required to get 16 hours on a training boat with 4 students.
dhays
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It is the same for the SI ferry. I was told when I worked there that the Washington ferries were identical. I don't know if that was true. The only thing that was changed when direction was reversed was the lighting, and a manual pin was dropped on the forward end to lock the rudder. Both propulsion systems were operable from both pilothouses.
pearlwindham
Veteran Member
78puget-trawler
Guru
Per licensing pleasure boat owners and operators. Its a dumb idea. Just another way for whatever bureaucracy to make more money to spend somewhere else. Pretty soon they will have us getting licensed to cook a meal in our own home because it might be dangerous. LIFE is dangerous! Step outside your door and you can be killed by any number of ways and inside the home is perhaps more dangerous. How many ways can we think of to license folks to life their lives? Just stop it. Look at the big thread recently about the tug/barge that ran on the rocks in BC. Guess what? Operators were licensed! Ferry boat captain here. Uh Hello. Has a big fat probably 5000 ton license but still was in a totally avoidable collision. Maybe the guy on the little boat has a license, who knows? I used to be licensed, so what? A license does not a cautious mariner make. Stupid people have licenses too, I have known more than a few. So put me in the no corner to that idea! Just another loss of personal freedom in my view. YMMV.
So, I take it you're against requiring driver's licenses to drive cars as well?
CPseudonym
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78puget-trawler
Guru
Nope. Point is sort of like where does it stop? You care to address my other points besides throwing out the obvious gotcha question? And does having a drivers license to drive a car prevent accidents and crime and murder and suicide or anything else? Answer.... no.
markpierce
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There's no fixing stupid. Thousands are killed annually on the highways, and the operators all supposedly passed experience and written-test requirements. Lesson: drive/boat defensively. Assume NOTHING except that all operators are clueless.
dhays
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I have nothing against the idea of boater education or licensing. However, I am old. I grew up on the water and boats and imagine a lot of TF folks are the same. I had to take the WA state boater education course a few years back. It was worthwhile but probably didn't make me a safer skipper. Would a 5 day course? Probably not. Would a 6-pack license? Probably not since it would mean any more sea time than I have already accrued over the past half century. Still, I wouldn't mind getting a captains license at some point when I get enough time to do it.
I do believe a driver's license reduces accidents. I've seen kids work through driver's training and learn while having a learner's permit. Does it eliminate accidents? No. Just reduces. Even the vision test does that. Is it worth it? I think so, and I realize you disagree. That's fine.
A license won't make a cautious mariner and won't eliminate accidents. However, I believe and admittedly can't prove it, but still I believe that some form of licensing like my wife outlined would at least mean people had some minimum knowledge and training and new and inexperienced operators would have fewer accidents. It won't eliminate all bad operators or irresponsible ones, but it would establish some minimum knowledge. I put a great value in reduction of accidents and deaths, even if a small reduction.
78puget-trawler
Guru
I was grandfathered due to age so didn't have to take any stupid test for go boating. You must have been close to the cut off point Dave. I think markpierce makes a good point. Everyone assume that everybody else is clueless and there will be fewer problems. I have nothing against education either, but mandatory licensing is nothing more than another tax for the state to collect and actually counterproductive. As mp also says licensing hasn't prevented probably millions of auto deaths at this point has it. Getting a piece of paper wont make you better at what you do unless you pay attention to what you are doing. The guy on that boat that bounced off the ferry was a boob! The ferry officer was not paying attention to what was going on around him and then didn't act quickly enough to avoid an easily avoidable collision. He too is a boob. It will cost him more than the other guy because he has more to lose. Lack of attention. Big license don't count for much if you aint paying attention.
78puget-trawler
Guru
If anyone was really interested in cutting down on auto accidents they would.. not license anyone under the age of 25 and after age 65 a yearly driving skills test would be taken. The youngest and the oldest are the reason for most accidents, but nothing will be done because its considered acceptable losses.
psneeld
Guru
The main reason for issuing a license or safety certificate other than minimal training session to have something to take away to prevent bad behavior.
Sure people drive both boats and cars without licenses, but it's the evolution of penalties that ultimately works.
Without the initial certificate to attack, there is no real chain of punishment.
Sure people drive both boats and cars without licenses, but it's the evolution of penalties that ultimately works.
Without the initial certificate to attack, there is no real chain of punishment.
twistedtree
Guru
Gosh, it seems you just made the argument for licensing.
stubones99
Guru
Too bad the game industry does not make a boating simulator multi-player game with occasional passings, crossings, fog, high seas, and storms... With the technology I have seen, it should be able to be done, over the internet, all the way down to VHF communication too.
There is a defacto type of licensing for boat owners, insurance. Try to get get insurance on your new 50 ft'er without past successful experience operating the approximately same size boat... Next try to find a marina to moor your new 50 ft'er without insurance... This system seems to work as well as a boater ed course..
I don't know how grandfathering works in the States. Usually in Canada our rules follow what you guys do, but here, there is no grandfathering on PCOC due to age. You can get your card if you have previously passed a CPS course, or equivalent. All you need to do is write to the CPS for their documentary proof, send that to the PCOC place and you are in. Otherwise, you need to take the test for PCOC, which is offered on line and is not difficult.
78puget-trawler
Guru
We see how well thats working so far right?
78puget-trawler
Guru
Gosh, LOL!
78puget-trawler
Guru
Don't know what your PCOC is but in WA anyway, if over a certain age, I think its based on birth year, one can skip the nonsense. I am 63 and was born just before the cutoff whatever it is. Otherwise there is some plastic banana course one is supposed to take to become "proficient" at boating. LOL!
ulysses
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I have found that most things based upon age do indeed have some basis in the birth year. At least that is the way things work down in this part of the country.
Northern Spy
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lol
78puget-trawler
Guru
LOL!!!! I did mean of course that regardless my age at present, when that silly boating school thing was put in place, it was based on ones birth year. Good catch though!
There are some incredible simulators, but they're primarily limited today to schools. The one we've used was amazing and we were presented with some conditions we hope never to face. It would be nice to see wider availability and use.
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