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Old 09-11-2013, 11:34 PM   #21
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Don, I agree with you. Why should west-coast boaters subsidize east coasters?
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Old 09-11-2013, 11:37 PM   #22
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Don, I agree with you. Why should west-coast boaters subsidize east coasters?
I was really hoping you would our addiction (boating addiction)
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Old 09-12-2013, 06:46 AM   #23
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Don, I agree with you. Why should west-coast boaters subsidize east coasters?
Just part of the deal. Why should East Coast homeowners pay for some of the cost of California wild fires? Just part of sharing the cost. There are local rate variations, but if none were shared Hurricane Sandy damage in the northeast would leave those folks out. There can be catastrophic loss anywhere.

I would love to compare my Florida marine rate to your California rate. Same goes for Florida homeowners insurance.
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Old 09-12-2013, 08:42 AM   #24
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...I would love to compare my Florida marine rate to your California rate. Same goes for Florida homeowners insurance.
I can't quite compare FL and CA but when we went through the Canal, excluding the rider for the transit, our premiums increased 20% since we were now in the Caribbean. (It was a good thing the water was clear).

When we were in Alaska and the PNW, our premiums were 42% less than what we are currently paying in Florida which is ~1.77% of our hull value. We could get that number lower if we wanted to be north of Brunswick, GA between June I and November 1.
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Old 09-12-2013, 09:36 AM   #25
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I can't quite compare FL and CA but when we went through the Canal, excluding the rider for the transit, our premiums increased 20% since we were now in the Caribbean. (It was a good thing the water was clear).

When we were in Alaska and the PNW, our premiums were 42% less than what we are currently paying in Florida which is ~1.77% of our hull value. We could get that number lower if we wanted to be north of Brunswick, GA between June I and November 1.
Actuaries to the rescue (just kidding)!

Don's mention of Ouija board in Actuarys’ tool box is partially correct (see post # 19).

Their main tool is called tall %age premium "fluff"... spread broadly over all regions; including those affected by specific calamity and those not. Basically, and in good effort to make sure the ins co they represent stays solvent, the base loss potential is calced and then a tall % override (“fluff”) on premium costs is broadly applied. The rub I have with ins premium costs is that in “spreading the risk” across this nation it seems that the cost increases should more closely represent the problems that have happened or are anticipated in specific geographic areas... due to... weather, climate, fire, earthquake and otherwise.

Points on fact:

- Rural areas in heavily wooded areas should not have their homeowner fire ins subsidized by home owners where no forest exists
- Auto owners in very rural areas should not have their auto ins subsidize drivers in heavy population highway areas
- Boaters in SF Delta (i.e. me and many others) should not be required to subsidize hurricane losses on east coast

All in all what I’m implying here is simply that thems (all of us) who live in regions where specific calamities have occurred or may be likely to occur should bear the brunt of ins cost needs regarding coverage provided in their area. Then, people who live in any specific area will simply need to budget as needed... but, those in other areas need not budget to subsidize other geographic regions’ disaster premiums.

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Old 09-12-2013, 10:49 AM   #26
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I have got to say that my surveyor saved me close to $10,000 by the time it was all said and done. The PO had tanks inspected probably due to a fuel issue but added some hardware to the side of the gas tanks. In the process the cleaning company caused more damage than resolved. The tanks have to be removed with both motors and replaced. Bill on that one is going to be $8k. The PO knocked $10k off the top to complete the sale. I wouldn't have known that these were a violation of Federal law as they look like they were done well. Now I know why ports/openings shouldn't be and aren't allowed in the side of any gas tank. (Diesel that's another story, as I have a diesel tank I am thinking of installing a sight tube on for the heater.) Other small things here and there all adding up to about $700 +/- to fix, plus some delamination/core/fiberglass work needed.(two small areas on a 30 + year old boat). Best $600 I ever spent!
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:54 AM   #27
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All in all what I’m implying here is simply that thems (all of us) who live in regions where specific calamities have occurred or may be likely to occur should bear the brunt of ins cost needs regarding coverage provided in their area. Then, people who live in any specific area will simply need to budget as needed... but, those in other areas need not budget to subsidize other geographic regions’ disaster premiums.

I live in a seismic two earthquake zone. I don't know what it is in your area, but suspect it is higher risk. Psunami possibility here is low. The point is that there are hazards in all areas. As Windsong can verify, we had a tornado in our area. I cannot remember the last year that we had a tornado---and I can remember a lot of years.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:04 AM   #28
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Spreading the cost is the only way that insurance is at all affordable.
Yup. That is the way it works.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:38 PM   #29
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I shouldn't have to pay for all the boaters that are clueless...no matter what zone they are in...

Which is my point about insurance...other than some broad stoke conclusions about experience and use... and no recent claims (whether your fault or not)...you pay the same as everyone...because it's how insurance companies make money...the bigger the pool they include you in...the less risk per type of incident.
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Old 09-12-2013, 12:48 PM   #30
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I shouldn't have to pay for all the boaters that are clueless...no matter what zone they are in...

Which is my point about insurance...other than some broad stoke conclusions about experience and use... and no recent claims (whether your fault or not)...you pay the same as everyone...because it's how insurance companies make money...the bigger the pool they include you in...the less risk per type of incident.
One of the reasons for increasing premiums is the crappy returns today on invested money. When investment income was good, insurance companies could make it by breaking even on claims and overhead. That is not the case today. Their investments are suffering just as yours. In today's litigious society running naked is not a good option. Someone has to cover that. How would you like to have about $300,000.00 riding on your teenager next door bumper. There's a lot of risk out there both financial and otherwise.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:13 PM   #31
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Friend of mine just out of high school was running a very successful illegal sports book in the South Bay Area. Came very close to being busted and it scared him straight. Got into the insurance business and is now a very successful under writer.

The two activities are remarkably similar.
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:38 PM   #32
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I think I bought insurance from him. Is his name Vinny?
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Old 09-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #33
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One of the reasons for increasing premiums is the crappy returns today on invested money. When investment income was good, insurance companies could make it by breaking even on claims and overhead. That is not the case today. Their investments are suffering just as yours. In today's litigious society running naked is not a good option. Someone has to cover that. How would you like to have about $300,000.00 riding on your teenager next door bumper. There's a lot of risk out there both financial and otherwise.
That's my whole point....it cheaper to insure huge numbers of people at the same cost...than a select few.

USAA did it for years and other agencies to from what I gather...they only insured a select group and did very well....I'm guessing because it was a group of people that were either lower risk or more predictable/insurable.

Just like training/experience..there are other traits that make people more insurable than others...but gathering that data takes effort so low risk people suffer the consequences.
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