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Old 07-11-2016, 01:50 PM   #21
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"why does anyone confined to weekend cruising buy a monohull sailboat"

They prefer the journey to the destination.

A fine choice in a well found boat.
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Old 07-11-2016, 02:09 PM   #22
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"why does anyone confined to weekend cruising buy a monohull sailboat"

They prefer the journey to the destination.

A fine choice in a well found boat.
You missed my point, it was a rhetorical question.

Ted
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:14 PM   #23
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The market is just narrow. It's the perfect boat for Mark and it's easy to see why. Unfortunately for Seahorse, Mark doesn't represent the mass market and they're not reaching their other Mark's very well. It's a niche product and to be successful with a niche product you must reach that audience.

The vast majority of boat purchasers have never heard of a Coot or any other Seahorse products. They've also been told, if the subject has ever come up, that they don't want steel and they have all it's negatives in their head and none of it's positives. The discussion was with a builder or seller of fiberglass boats.

I can see the add campaign now for Seahorse. My wife is suggestion slogans like "Duck me." I was thinking more along the lines of Get a Duck. Everyone needs a Duck. You don't need a duck, well get a smaller boat, a Coot. But to do that you'd have to be in every boating publication and at every show and have boats on hand at the shows. Make a steel boat the cool thing to own for the true boater. Absent that, steel boats in the under 100' sizes just won't attract many buyers.

I'm like Mark on many other things. I find products I love and rebuy them many times only to get them discontinued because sales were lousy. Apparently no one else agreed with me on them. I admire individuality in boat choices. Mark likes cruise ships too. His Coot is regardless a beautiful boat and the fact there aren't many being built only makes it more special.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:25 PM   #24
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Following that logic, why does anyone confined to weekend cruising buy a monohull sailboat? Clearly there are tens of thousands of people content to travel at or below hull speed. Think this is more about marketing or lack there of.

Ted
So... If full displacement coastal cruisers were so marketable, why did almost all manufacturers either quit making them, or increase the horsepower to make them SD boats (in the case of several flat bottomed boats that now have higher hp engines)????

Sail boats don't count. They evoke a different dream, one of the freedom of sailing. Whole different concept.

The simple fact is that manufacturers do not build FD speed coastal cruisers because they do not sell.

The FD hull form in a power boat is pretty much only represented by the passage makers. Based on the success of KK and Nordhavn, that is a dream that is marketable. The dream of exploring the world.
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:35 PM   #25
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That boat (hull # 5) was built in 2011. It has been on the market for about one year.

Believe the asking price is too high. They're asking for about the original purchase price, excluding shipping.
We viewed this 2011 Coot at North Harbour Diesel in 2013 and it was advertised in the November 2013 NW Yachting Issue. How time flies:
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Old 07-11-2016, 03:46 PM   #26
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Hairy chested adventures to wildly remote or lavishly expensive locales in magazine articles would help...the kind that fuel peoples imaginations of the kind of life they could have, if only they had that boat.

Personally impervious to it...
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Old 07-11-2016, 04:54 PM   #27
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So... If full displacement coastal cruisers were so marketable, why did almost all manufacturers either quit making them, or increase the horsepower to make them SD boats (in the case of several flat bottomed boats that now have higher hp engines)????

Sail boats don't count. They evoke a different dream, one of the freedom of sailing. Whole different concept.

The simple fact is that manufacturers do not build FD speed coastal cruisers because they do not sell.

The FD hull form in a power boat is pretty much only represented by the passage makers. Based on the success of KK and Nordhavn, that is a dream that is marketable. The dream of exploring the world.
I don't think from a practical reality (if not perception) standpoint Ted is that far off. The dream may be sailing, but 90% of the cruising sailboats we see underway are under power. Even on open water on great days for sailing. So indeed they are usually no more than displacement (unless a shoal draft design) single engine express style motorboats in reality.
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:15 PM   #28
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I don't think from a practical reality (if not perception) standpoint Ted is that far off. The dream may be sailing, but 90% of the cruising sailboats we see underway are under power. Even on open water on great days for sailing. So indeed they are usually no more than displacement (unless a shoal draft design) single engine express style motorboats in reality.
I agree with you completely.

The challenge though is not how sail boats are used. We all would probably agree with both you and Ted that sail boats are often used as weekenders, and are driven under power most of the time.

The reason that small sail boats seem to still be in production and selling, Vs FD boats has, in my opinion everything to do with sailing and all that it entails.

People that buy sail boats want to sail, so they buy a sail boat. They may not actually sail, but nobody dreams of buying a sail boat to drive it around under power. They buy the sail boat with the dream of sailing.


People that want to go cruising are often busy making a living so they want a boat that goes faster than displacement speeds. In general they do not want to be limited to slow speeds only.

People that want to explore the world buy FD passage maker type boats. They don't have to work anymore and have all the time in the world to fulfill their dreams

There is a VERY SMALL market segment of people that want a go slow only boat that is not a passagemaker capable. Yes they exist, but not so many as evidenced by the fact that very few manufacturers build FD coastal cruiser boats like the Coot.

Personally I love the Coot. I love the idea of a full displacement boat. That said I believe that manufactirers are building what sells, and I do not beleive that there is a huge untapped market for FD coastal cruisers that is just waiting for the right marketing person to come along with a snazzy ad campaign to get it going.
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Old 07-11-2016, 05:17 PM   #29
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while I find the boat attractive,and in the pnw where you usually don't spend much time outdoors,in the eastcoast this boat probably wouldn't have much interest.I looked at the pictures,the foredeck is very small,the aft deck is minimal.There simply is no place to enjoy the outdoors.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:10 PM   #30
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We viewed this 2011 Coot at North Harbour Diesel in 2013 and it was advertised in the November 2013 NW Yachting Issue. How time flies:
Yes it does. The boat was delivered in 2012. That season the boat was used in NE USA. Next season (2013), it was sailed in SE Alaska. So, it has been on the market for two and a half years. They need to reduce the price to below $200K.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:15 PM   #31
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[QUOTE=tinped;459557
... There simply is no place to enjoy the outdoors.[/QUOTE]



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Old 07-11-2016, 06:33 PM   #32
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Mark your Coot is beautiful example off a sturdy steel smaller sized trawler. On 35ft you cannot expect the area of a 40 footer, no reason to defend your Coot.

Steel does not fit all of us, same with 35ft
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:34 PM   #33
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..I can see the add campaign now for Seahorse. My wife is suggestion slogans like "Duck me." I was thinking more along the lines of Get a Duck. Everyone needs a Duck....
Or maybe "Get Ducked!"
Resale prospects come a distant second to enjoying the boat you chose to suit your needs and wants.
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Old 07-11-2016, 06:54 PM   #34
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Direct sales of a generally unknown line of boats from a Chinese factory just isn't a very good business model. There's one Coot to see in Sausalito. No other Seahorse product available for viewing and walking.

It's a plan that will sell a boat or two a year and perhaps the same in other markets. Not a plan that will ever build volume.
I would contend that it is a great business model if the company is happy selling a couple boats a year. We often get biased towards being the biggest, most well known, or highest volume. There is something to be said for building what you like in a way that makes you happy.

Nothing wrong with being a high volume production builder, if that is what their business goals are.
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Old 07-11-2016, 07:08 PM   #35
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Seahorse Marine's main business is building Diesel Ducks. Their boatyard seems to be busy. The firm tries to limit marketing costs to keep costs lower. Nevertheless, Coot #7 was displayed in this Spring's boat show in Richmond and was advertised in the local "sailing rag" Latitude 38, featuring a photo of my Coot. Coots 5 and 6 prior to delivery to the USA:

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Old 07-11-2016, 08:24 PM   #36
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Why has Nordhavn discontinued the N35?
It seems to be more livable than the Coot and arguably more practical for coastal navigation with the SD speed potential.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:37 PM   #37
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I would contend that it is a great business model if the company is happy selling a couple boats a year.
Very true and better than being midway between that and volume, spending money without the revenue. Just the question here was why they don't sell more.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:38 PM   #38
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Why has Nordhavn discontinued the N35?
It seems to be more livable than the Coot and arguably more practical for coastal navigation with the SD speed potential.
People aren't willing to pay Nordhavn's prices for a 35' plus they can make more money on larger sizes.

The competition in the 35' range is a few relatively small builders and then the dominant player in the field, Sea Ray.
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Old 07-11-2016, 08:43 PM   #39
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People aren't willing to pay Nordhavn's prices for a 35' plus they can make more money on larger sizes.

The competition in the 35' range is a few relatively small builders and then the dominant player in the field, Sea Ray.
Perhaps, this is also the reason why nobody wants the Coot?
For $400k there are many alternatives.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:00 PM   #40
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...
The competition in the 35' range is a few relatively small builders and then the dominant player in the field, Sea Ray.
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