Why do watermen feel so entitled?

[Woodland Hills]

So why do crabbers and fishermen feel like they are the only ones on the water? I guess I can understand exclusively dropping ones pots in the channel if that’s where the crabs are: folks gotta make a living. But what’s with everyone zooming through the marina trailing a giant wake? We’ve been tied to the fuel dock for a few nights awaiting a permanent slip to open up and every morning around 5:00 am the fleet heads out at such a clip that we rock and roll until dawn when the recreational boaters head out. Then it’s even worse after dark when they return. Last night one crabber was in such a hurry to tie up that he rocked my soup out of the bowland onto the table. The recreational boaters all seem to know what a no wake zone is, I wonder why the pros do not.

Do professional fishermen have some sort of exemption from courtesy?

 

[CaptTom]

I try to look at it from the other point of view. These guys are out there, every day, doing a hard job. It's a long day, and they're not about to make it longer for the sake of some weekend recreational boaters. They do get a sense of ownership; they're out there in both good and bad weather. They're also the ones who will be first on scene to save your skin if you do something stupid to get yourself in trouble out there.

Also, they're largely young and somewhat anti-social to begin with. It's a boring job, and waking the crap out of some wealthy yacht owner is just good ol' boy fun. I've had them take the time to do a couple of extra doughnuts around me on a mooring, just for laughs. It's not as bad now, with a more trawler-like boat than my previous Clorox bottle style express cruiser.

 

[Simi 60]

Why do watermen feel so entitled?

Perhaps because you give them a special title?
Anyone with a boat and a pulse gets called captain, anyone who catches fish or crabs is a waterman.
They are just dudes on the water with no more rights and beholden to the same rules as everyone else.

Mind you, we don't give them a special titles here and they still charge through an anchorage at full noise

 

[Capt Easy]

I am one of these “watermen” you speak of.

While there are a few among us that do act as though they own the place and are not very respectful sometimes,that is not the norm.

In fact, I would suggest just the opposite is true.

 

[Kit_L]

Around here, the oyster farmers go whatever speed they like in the 4Kn 'no wake' zones—but they operate flat-bottomed aluminium punts with single outboards, so at speed don't make any wake to speak of. I understand this completely; many boats make far less wake when on plane than when they are idling.

The Marine Rescue boat I volunteer on makes 6.5Kn at idle, and creates a significant wake at this speed; 38' long and two 450hp Yanmars. To do 4Kn, we need to flick the engines in and out of gear.

As for fishermen's boats (all full displacement trawlers), the main wharf is closer to the sea than where everyone moors, so no problem.

 

[boomerang]

Watermen are some of the finest people you'll find out there. Probably the most polite & friendly group as a whole that I've ever known. They were plying the waters when there were hardly any recreational folks like us out there. I find it ironic that almost everybody that has moved here to their McMansion weekend homes ,each complete with lit docks, have pictures of workboats hanging on their walls, their yards are decorated with crab pot buoys that they've found washed up on the shore, they have crab feasts in the summer & oyster roasts in the winter yet they complain about a few minutes of noise or wake as they head out & return. I'm not singling out the OP but my personal opinion is that I have no problem with the commercial guys. I feel like I'm in their domain and happy to coexist with them.
Oh ,since I'm on a rant, what's up with the cliche names like "river view", "tranquil waters", or my favorite "Rivah House" ...what in the hell is a rivah, anyway? ...that makes me want to puke.

 

[Moby Nick]

We've encountered only a few jerks. By and large they proceed in "a seaman-like manner" all over the Great Lakes, Maine, Gulf Coast, and Strait of Georgia.

 

[sunchaser]

I'd say the word is out on a certain 63' yacht.

 

[sbu22]

I'd say the word is out on a certain 63' yacht.

Woodland - that's 180 out from my experience. There's a few idiots in every grouping, but I see way more waterborne stupidity from the rec boat crowd in a typical summer than I've seen in my life from fishers and oystermen.

 

[psneeld]

Hardly mostly boy scouts....no different than any other cross section of the population.

No, they don't have the right to put pots wherever they want, just where the laws allow them.

And no....they dont have any special priveledges except bridges that are on demand for commercial traffic but not recs.

Yep.... have had some great friends that are watermen...and they feel the same way. ... good and bad ones out there....and they dislike the bad even more tham I do.

 

[stubones99]

I am one of these “watermen” you speak of.

While there are a few among us that do act as though they own the place and are not very respectful sometimes,that is not the norm.

In fact, I would suggest just the opposite is true.

Why is it that the bad apples spoil the pie for everyone else?

 

[sbu22]

Because they can.

 

[dave907]

Funny. I grew up in the commercial fishery in Alaska. Spent all my childhood and teenage Summers fishing on the family boat. Spent the better part of a decade as a young man running the family tender (boat that buys fish from the fishermen on behalf of the salmon processors) and I've never heard the term "waterman."

Is that really what they call fishermen in places outside Alaska? How strange and interesting.

Oh and in terms of wake courtesy: In my hometown of Cordova it is pretty strictly enforced with peer pressure. Lots of guys live on their boats during the season. In a community where you need to occasionally bail each other out of trouble, courtesy is a survival skill.

Cheers!

Dave

 

[johnrupp]

In the Chesapeake Bay they are generally called Waterman.

 

[johnma]

My experience with Chesapeake waterman are that for the most part are really good guys and can be funny as hell in social situations. Their days start very early and when you have a group of 20-30 boats going out even at harbor speed there is going to be some rocking. That said, they rarely go harbor speed just like land borne folks rarely go the speed limit when they're going to work in the morning.
John

 

[averybill]

Hey I am all about the guys who are making a living on the water. They deserve I’m all for these folks we show our respect and they will return the respect in kind. Watermen, Oystermen, Shrimpers, they all have my respect and put food on my table. No problem with a little wake now and then.

 

[The Other Gary]

I'm from Prince Edward Island. There are no pleasure boats in Tignish Harbour this early in the season. Opening Day for lobster. Enjoy the sound of the DDs

 

[Simi 60]

Hey I am all about the guys who are making a living on the water. They deserve I’m all for these folks we show our respect and they will return the respect in kind. Watermen, Oystermen, Shrimpers, they all have my respect and put food on my table. No problem with a little wake now and then.

You do realise its a two way street right?
They put food on your table and you put money in their pocket.
Respect is deserved both ways.

 

[Benthic2]

Many of the lobster boats around here show total disdain for the small pleasure boats. They tend to stick to the middle of the channel, throw huge wakes, not answer the radio, and just assume you will get out of their way. They will show outright hostility if there are dive tanks visible on a boat. I suppose its a typical bell curve of courteous and discourteous, but the bad ones always make a bigger impression.

Around here, a lot of no wake zones are more for ecological reasons. They want to minimize erosion of the banks. In those areas it doesn't matter if there are other boaters around, wake should be minimized

 

[ssobol]

My guess would be that since they are working for living they feel they can ignore the rules or only obey the rules if there is active enforcement. The rules only apply to those people that are out there just for fun.

If you look at the collapse of offshore fisheries, the collapse is not caused by the people out there for the fun of it.

Watermen find a market for something. More watermen follow that market then pretty soon the market is flooded and the price drops. The watermen then have to compete with one another to get the most catch to get a reasonable return on their day out. Then it is a race to the bottom.

Like a lot of natural resources, people think that the resources are there for the taking and I've got to get what I can before the next guy gets it. All I've got to do is get as much as I can today. Tomorrow is tomorrow's problem.

Well, guess what, in a lot of cases tomorrow is here.

 

[FF]

"The watermen then have to compete with one another to get the most catch to get a reasonable return on their day out."


When there are plenty of fish the landed price paid is low , when few fish the price is higher , so either way the fisherman comes up with about the same money for a days work.

 

[boomerang]

My guess would be that since they are working for living they feel they can ignore the rules or only obey the rules if there is active enforcement. The rules only apply to those people that are out there just for fun.

If you look at the collapse of offshore fisheries, the collapse is not caused by the people out there for the fun of it.

Watermen find a market for something. More watermen follow that market then pretty soon the market is flooded and the price drops. The watermen then have to compete with one another to get the most catch to get a reasonable return on their day out. Then it is a race to the bottom.

Like a lot of natural resources, people think that the resources are there for the taking and I've got to get what I can before the next guy gets it. All I've got to do is get as much as I can today. Tomorrow is tomorrow's problem.

Well, guess what, in a lot of cases tomorrow is here.

I look at your points this way: The rules you mentioned that they (commercial watermen) aren't obeying... eg no wake, manatee zones et al..., were put in place because of who? The recreational boater and property owners.
Regarding overfishing & the tomorrow is here today analogy, yes they follow the market. Why are we ,as the consumer still buying a product if it's known to be in decline? We're driving the market so wouldn't that make it the consumers fault? I'm not convinced they follow a fisheries to collapse nor am I convinced that overfishing is hugely responsible for a collapse. Record keeping & historical evidence points to cyclical hi & low peaks with most natural resources, seafood included.
This is my abbreviated opinion on the subject and please understand I'm making friendly conversation & not trying to start a heated argument while banging my fist on the desk!

 

[psneeld]

With 20+years in USCG fisheries enforcement (and a VERY good friend a long lerm NMFS field agent...plus others at both fed and state level) and another 15 years on the water full time as a pro captain (working with all kinds of captains)...

The general consensus was there was the full range of personalities running those boats ( both US and internationally).

Go back in history and think how many jumped into illegal activities at every turn of the page.

As I said before....sorta like sportsmen in general....I am proud to call some friends and I was glad to face some in court and put them out of business. Some are conservation minded and help educate the powers to be, others are out there raping the resource to the last one.

Look at even how they treat their crews....some could care less and take sinkers waiting to happen out to sea...others are top shelf kinda guys.

I could go on forever.

 

[Fletcher500]

The definition can vary depending on which group is using it. Waterman = Fisherman, Surfer, Diver, Swimmer, Paddler; Love and Respect the ocean.

 

[psneeld]

Not sure I have ever heard watermen used with recreational endeavors.

 

[Woodland Hills]

Around here, the oyster farmers go whatever speed they like in the 4Kn 'no wake' zones—but they operate flat-bottomed aluminium punts with single outboards, so at speed don't make any wake to speak of. I understand this completely; many boats make far less wake when on plane than when they are idling.

The Marine Rescue boat I volunteer on makes 6.5Kn at idle, and creates a significant wake at this speed; 38' long and two 450hp Yanmars. To do 4Kn, we need to flick the engines in and out of gear.

As for fishermen's boats (all full displacement trawlers), the main wharf is closer to the sea than where everyone moors, so no problem.

Down here the trawlers are full displacement, but the charter sport fishing boats and the crabbers are semi-displacement or planing hills. BTW, the trawlers are not the problem here: it is the day sport fishing charters and crabbers that seem to be unable to idle and unwilling to obey no-wake zones.

Excusing this because they are earning a living and want to go home is like letting truck drivers speed through school zones if they are heading home at the end of the day. I always thought that professionals were held to a HIGHER standard than others simply because they ARE pros. They are out there every day, shouldn’t they get better at their jobs and not sloppier? And why does any of this exempt them from basic harbor rules and courtesy?

 

[Woodland Hills]

I'd say the word is out on a certain 63' yacht.

I’m pretty sure that Bubba the crabber is not following Trawler Forum........

 

[Woodland Hills]

Woodland - that's 180 out from my experience. There's a few idiots in every grouping, but I see way more waterborne stupidity from the rec boat crowd in a typical summer than I've seen in my life from fishers and oystermen.

This may be true, but is irrelevant to the question of why the pros ignore no-wake rules in the harbor here.

 

[Woodland Hills]

In the Chesapeake Bay they are generally called Waterman.

I grew up on the Delmarva peninsula.

 

[sbu22]

Dave 907 - I first heard the term waterman when I served a hitch as military advisor on a COTP staff. Seemed like a good descriptive and inclusive term for working boaters distinguished from rec boaters.

Woodland - yeah, you're right - my comment was not specific to your marina, wherever that is. I was observing about my experience of 30 or so years on the east and gulf coast. Maybe it's something in the local water in your case.