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Old 08-12-2014, 11:13 PM   #121
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These conversations about boardings on boating forums almost always divide into the same two camps - (1) the safety/security/law enforcement fans who think boarding pleasure boats with little kids on them, by officers armed to the teeth like they're assaulting a terrorist cell in Somalia, somehow enhances our safety and security and we ought to be thankful and cooperative; and (2) those who are irritated or angry or resentful at being treated like an assumed criminal, or an assumed threat, or a serf or servant or subject of - well, I was going to say law enforcement authorities but I think we've really gone past that - they're really equipped and behave like paramilitary authorities.

I tend to think there's less and less of a reason to have these discussions. They serve little purpose. You're either going to be resentful of assault-rifled officers shaking down your boat in front of your kids and wife - just as I'm resentful of TSA feeling up my wife at the airport - or you're not. These discussions change no one's mindset.
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Old 08-13-2014, 02:32 AM   #122
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Like I said before, I don't like being boarded. Not out of any legal issue, I just don't like the feeling if someone looking for my error.

Boarding a boat is not the same as entering a home. Maybe legally, but the safety search issue is MUCH more applicable on a boat. And they have laws which require boats to have certain safety devices. Homes don't have such devices that are required legally. If the CG can save the human and physical expense of a tragedy with a simple boarding then more power to them.

I guess it would be different in mind if they were A holes about it. But that has never been my experience. They have always acted in a very professional manner and treated the boardings as an educational process.

I believe this is more a constitutionally grey area. Kinda like religion and politics. The only right answer is the one that fits into your personal philosophy.
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:15 AM   #123
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Again, this may be regional, but I note that your city is Avalon. If that is Avalon, California, your experience can't be much different than mine -- the USCG does its job by boarding whomever they want whenever they want. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe there is any legal requirement, or even USCG policy, to board only when there is a reasonable belief that a crossing has occurred. (Note, the rules for land are different and cannot be analogized to border searches on the water.) I have been boarded (and searched) plenty of times, including times that I was not out of US waters, but have no problem with that. Still, lots of people are boarded, and feel put upon and do complain. Even so, I don't think the Coast Guard's authority is in any danger of being diminished, at least not for political reasons and the constitutional soundness of that authority is beyond reproach.
CG can come aboard ANYTIME whether you are tied up or even hauled out at a waterside facility. 14 USC, 89 gives them this power. Commercial, yacht, jetski or UFO it doesn't matter.
Additionally, they have this power in international waters on any US documented vsl,or stateless vsl.
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Old 08-13-2014, 06:42 AM   #124
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I tend to think there's less and less of a reason to have these discussions. They serve little purpose. You're either going to be resentful of assault-rifled officers shaking down your boat in front of your kids and wife - just as I'm resentful of TSA feeling up my wife at the airport - or you're not. These discussions change no one's mindset.
As frustrating as these kind of discussions may be, I think it is important to keep up the dialogue. If no one discusses losing our freedoms soon it becomes accepted. Who would have ever thought that we would meekly submit to frisk searches and even body x-rays. If there is no discussion our young people will never have a chance of knowing what they have given up. It seems the great majority of young people are willing to give up freedoms for so called safety.

Thomas Jefferson said, "When the people fear the government there is tyranny. When the government fears the people there is freedom".

Every time we lose a freedom the terroists win.
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Old 08-13-2014, 07:34 AM   #125
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............The Patriot Act has caused us to give up many of our freedoms. When freedoms are curtailed the terrorists are winning.
Very true and it's good to see people understanding that.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:02 AM   #126
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........I tend to think there's less and less of a reason to have these discussions. They serve little purpose. You're either going to be resentful of assault-rifled officers shaking down your boat in front of your kids and wife - just as I'm resentful of TSA feeling up my wife at the airport - or you're not. These discussions change no one's mindset.
The same could be said of many of the discussions here; religion, anchors, GPS vs paper charts, drinking while boating, even our choice of cell phone providers. Some people will even switch sides from time to time to be on the side that appears to be "winning".

I compare these to arguments in a bar after everyone has had several drinks. The only reason there is no fist fighting is, we are separated from each other by keyboards and wires.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:13 AM   #127
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.......Boarding a boat is not the same as entering a home. Maybe legally, but the safety search issue is MUCH more applicable on a boat. And they have laws which require boats to have certain safety devices. Homes don't have such devices that are required legally. ............
Nope, it's the same.

Imagine that you're sitting at home entertaining friends and minding your own business when a large red truck with flashing blue lights and a machine gun on the front pulls up in front of your home. The telephone rings and the voice on the other end tells you to stop what your doing and open the door for an inspection.

You open the door and six armed and uniformed men barge in. They demand a photo ID from everyone, then demand to see the title to your home. They ask what you are doing and what you plan to do next.

They ask to see your smoke and CO detectors and fire extinguishers and they check for GFCI protection and backflow preventers.

Then they walk through your home, looking in every room and every closet.

They fill out a paper, give you a copy and leave.

Is this a violation of the US Constitution or is it perfectly legal? Perhaps one of the Constitutional lawyers on this forum can explain to me why our rights are less on a boat (which is sometimes our home) than they are on a home on land.

BTW: I did have my current Coast Guard Auxiliary decal on my window and they surely could see it as we passed port to port and they turned around and boarded on my port side so I don't believe it was a safety inspection. I believe it was a practice boarding. They didn't ask if I had any weapons until the end so perhaps they need the practice.
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Old 08-13-2014, 08:39 AM   #128
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The only way this changes is BY us discussing, wires, keyboards and monitors (or in person) and WRITING our congressman and senators about it. The only thing the CG responds to is the touching of their purse strings (through legislature).

The timing of the inspections and the repetition is based upon past experience. Just like the random drug test system for us. There is actually a provision in the random drug testing program to relax and lessen the number and frequency of random drug tests. BUT, it is based upon the plummeting of positive results. (hasn't happened yet) thus, we still have annual random and pre employment and post accident piss tests.

The boardings are the same. If they start finding less and less issues, they will not have a reason to board. BUT..... they keep finding discrepancies. When we (as the boating public) clean up our act, they will lessen their inspections.

Does ANYONE really think the findings will change? I don't think so. We live in a pretty 'dumbed down' society. No one wants to pay attention to the small print. And people surely get PO'd when they are forced to read it!
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:20 AM   #129
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Did I miss anyone or anything????
Yes.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:43 AM   #130
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Amazing to me how a discussion started on the subject of boarding but has now turned into political rants. Worst, those who don't necessarily share the outrage are now being labelled as everything from being "dumbed down" to being "complacent" and with political rhetoric flying in all directions as to the Patriot Act and loss of freedom and everything else the poster considers bad in the world. As most such discussions turn too, there are now little pictures being posted with very inaccurate numbers being presented as fact. The real fact is Homeland Security, including TSA, has stopped quite a few potential problems but they don't and can't publicize them all.

I don't want to launch into a political discussion as probably both sides would then get ugly and also I just don't consider this the place. This is a boating forum. Specifically, a trawler forum. Why can't be just stop with facts and leave the other for somewhere else?

As usual those yelling loudest are taking over the discussion but just because the rest are quieter and choose not to launch back with similar anger doesn't mean they agree with the views presented.
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Old 08-13-2014, 09:52 AM   #131
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Amazing to me how a discussion started on the subject of boarding but has now turned into political rants. Worst, those who don't necessarily share the outrage are now being labelled as everything from being "dumbed down" to being "complacent" and with political rhetoric flying in all directions as to the Patriot Act and loss of freedom and everything else the poster considers bad in the world. As most such discussions turn too, there are now little pictures being posted with very inaccurate numbers being presented as fact. The real fact is Homeland Security, including TSA, has stopped quite a few potential problems but they don't and can't publicize them all.

I don't want to launch into a political discussion as probably both sides would then get ugly and also I just don't consider this the place. This is a boating forum. Specifically, a trawler forum. Why can't be just stop with facts and leave the other for somewhere else?

As usual those yelling loudest are taking over the discussion but just because the rest are quieter and choose not to launch back with similar anger doesn't mean they agree with the views presented.
as usual the facts just get in the way too often....
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