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Old 02-04-2015, 10:29 PM   #1
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WHY are anchors and engines so controversial?

The ongoing thread about anchor rode got me wondiering what it is about anchors, rode, and the number of engines that make these topics so controversial?

What is it about those three things in particular that can generate a 600-post thread?

I don't see it happen on any other topic outside of OTDE. For example, I strongly prefer Icom radios and Furuno radar over the other brands. But when I see a post from someone extolling the virtues of Standard Horizon or Raymarine, I have no urge to leap in and defend Icom and Furuno.

Or how about rope? Now there's something that every one of us deals with in important ways every time we take our boats out. But I don't see impassioned exchanges over the virtues of New England Rope vs.Samson rope (made in Washington and our personal preference).

So why do we shrug off opposing opinions about electronics, which posess WAY more aspects and features to like or dislike, or rope, the quality and properties of which I assume are greatly affected by how and where it's made, but we leap to our keyboards if someone says a bad word about our favorite lump of pointy metal or disses the number of engines our boat happened to come with?
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:32 PM   #2
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marin View Post
The ongoing thread about anchor rode got me wondiering what it is about anchors, rode, and the number of engines that make these topics so controversial?

What is it about those three things in particular that can generate a 600-post thread?

I don't see it happen on any other topic outside of OTDE. For example, I strongly prefer Icom radios and Furuno radar over the other brands. But when I see a post from someone extolling the virtues of Standard Horizon or Raymarine, I have no urge to leap in and defend Icom and Furuno.

Or how about rope? Now there's something that every one of us deals with in important ways every time we take our boats out. But I don't see impassioned exchanges over the virtues of New England Rope vs.Samson rope (made in Washington and our personal preference).

So why do we shrug off opposing opinions about electronics, which posess WAY more aspects and features to like or dislike, or rope, the quality and properties of which I assume are greatly affected by how and where it's made, but we leap to our keyboards if someone says a bad word about our favorite lump of pointy metal or disses the number of engines our boat happened to come with?
Excellent question Marin, and one I have often pondered myself. In the end I came down to the fact that it is because, (assuming the hull is intact and floating), they are items which are just so fundamental to the boat's operation. That is they are the bits that make it go…and the bits that make it stop.

You can't get much more functionally basic than that. Whereas all the other bits and pieces are just support items, that either make life more convenient, easier, or comfortable...or are even just cosmetic...or sometimes just because they are neat gadgets to have. The link being ones moving and stopping do not rely on them. If either of those items fail however, one's life on the water becomes very tense..!

That's my take on it anyway.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:43 PM   #4
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What is it about those three things in particular that can generate a 600-post thread?
I'll let you know in about 597 posts.
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Old 02-04-2015, 10:45 PM   #5
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The ongoing thread about anchor rode got me wondering what it is about anchors, rode, and the number of engines that make these topics so controversial?
What is it about those three things in particular that can generate a 600-post thread?
I agree, it is odd. Doubtless different ropes have different qualities, and it has to be important.
There is an inter-relationship, some engines might make a a good anchor. But then, which one...
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:03 PM   #6
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Marin,

I don't think those topics are very controversial at all.

Perhaps you should survey how many 'active' users there are on TF, compare that with what percentage of those get caught up in these debates, then look to see who tends to be the most set in their ways or long winded. The answer might surprise you
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:07 PM   #7
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Simple, Man (most of us anyway) likes to communicate. Some topics are easy to inter relate on such as weather and sports. If you're a golfer it is balls, clubs, Tiger and courses that get a big discussion going. ETC

If one is a trawlerite it is our puny engines, ccs per minute of fuel burn and anchors that 100% of us own and we all have in common.

Ever note how many large yacht or sailboat owners populate this forum?

Now, about your Rocna Marin, when will it become your next doorstop and you buy a sexy Sarca?

I do have a serious question - our Nobeltec is on Windows XP so what to choose - Coastal Explorer or Trident? CE will not interface with our NN3s whereas Trident will.
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:18 PM   #8
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Marin,

Perhaps you should survey how many 'active' users there are on TF, compare that with what percentage of those get caught up in these debates, then look to see who tends to be the most set in their ways or long winded. The answer might surprise you
I agree that these kinds of "discussions" tend to attract certain types of people. From what I read, they tend to be outspoken, not shy to speak up, indepenent, and very opinionated about all sorts of things, not just anchors and engines. They also--- again from what I read here--- tend to have had great deal of "life" experience for want of a better expression. From Art to Eric to psneeld to Carl to Don to Tom (Sunchaser) and others, they've all done or are doing a hell of a lot of different things very successfully in each of their lives, which I suspect is what gives them the confidence to express their opinons. A thicker skin, if you will.

These discussions on these topics are not limited to Trawler Forum. I hear them going on in our boating club, on the docks sometimes, and when I used to read them, on other forums like Trawlers & Trawlering.

So I think your take on what kind of people get into these discussions is correct.

But what I'm curious about is what it is about these three topics that prompts people who are so inclined to get so wrapped up in discussing them? Why anchors and engines and not radios and rope?
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Old 02-04-2015, 11:30 PM   #9
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Actually I think the answer is quite simple.
Engines for most people are difficult to change (repower or buy a new boat). Most wouldn't want to admit to themselves or others that they made a bad choice and are stuck with it. So they feel the need to defend what they have or their choice.

Anchors are similar.
Most people who argue about anchors, have changed at least once. Only thing worse than buying the boat with what turns out to be a bad anchor, is doing research and buying another bad anchor. Can't defend the second choice by claiming it came with the boat. So we instead defend our choice. Finally, I think we can all admit that our anchor may fail to hold at some point, so we have to make excuses, not the anchor and certainly not my technique. If they worked every time, there wouldn't be anything to argue over.

And this is why we don't argue over rope.
Rope works every time. Tied the boat up in the slip and left. It was still there when I returned. It works; nothing to argue about. If it's not there when you return, probably not a design flaw in the rope.

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Old 02-04-2015, 11:35 PM   #10
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WHY are anchors and engines so controversial?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post

I do have a serious question - our Nobeltec is on Windows XP so what to choose - Coastal Explorer or Trident? CE will not interface with our NN3s whereas Trident will.

I would take a look at Maxsea too, basically trident but from what I've been told more stable. Trident is defiantly more feature packed though. Depends on the compromise you want to make. I wouldn't even consider CE since you have NN3D equipment and Nobletec/Maxsea interfaces with it beautifully. Plus it's essentially another plotter you can display radar or chart on. IMO, of course.
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:07 AM   #11
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Now, about your Rocna Marin, when will it become your next doorstop and you buy a sexy Sarca?.
See, that is such a staggeringly remote possibility it would be far more interesting to get into the pros and cons of the impending burnout of the sun.

On the other hand, we did change rope brands when we found that Samson was far more fray resistant that New England Rope.....
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:30 AM   #12
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All anchors are great, until they are not. I think that is the crux of most of the disagreements. Most people argue in favour of the anchor that hasn't yet disappointed them.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:50 AM   #13
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As we are often reminded by the mods...when a poster is repeating the same thing over and over again....it probably time to stop...but it does rack up the posts till one or the other give up.

Many times a "half truth" is stated and when rebuked as a half truth...often the response is well "not in my half world"......well that is usually good for 30 or so posts. In the engine world...that would be the statement...."2 engines have 2 the failure rate than one". Holy mackeral....that statement could generate a 1000 page manifesto alone.

So ....much like a trial with lawyers that only have half the facts available....who knows where the thread may wind up. With two different discussions simultaneously occurring about the same topic but with totally different parameters driving the passions being expressed/defended....600 post threads I would think would be even more common with more topics.

Standby...looks like filter systems are on the rise to rival anchors and engine systems.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:11 AM   #14
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Most wouldn't want to admit to themselves or others that they made a bad choice and are stuck with it. So they feel the need to defend what they have or their choice.
BINGO!

People desperately want to believe that they made the one, absolute BEST choice possible. That means that they have to tell everyone who chose differently that they made the WRONG choice. It's all about defending their overly-sensitive ego.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:26 AM   #15
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With engines and anchors, these are two topics where there is a little factual information, but not enough to definitively answer the question so that opinions abound. So endless discussion ensues. Also we all know at least a little about these two unlike VHF radios where we know little.

So let the game roll on!

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Old 02-05-2015, 09:28 AM   #16
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Greetings,
Mr. dd and Mr. OCD. Good points BUT it could also be one-upmanship...
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:50 AM   #17
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Except for outboarders most boats are fitted with what the boat assembler engine choice , not the owner.

Low cost and what the advertising folks think and low cost are the main considerations.

Thats why so many displacement boats have oversized engines or Volvo power.
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Old 02-05-2015, 09:54 AM   #18
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With engines and anchors, these are two topics where there is a little factual information, but not enough to definitively answer the question so that opinions abound. So endless discussion ensues. Also we all know at least a little about these two unlike VHF radios where we know little.

So let the game roll on!

David
Yes. David and OC Diver have hit it pretty much right on.

I think the real conclusion is that there is no significant difference, thus the debate.

VHF radios on the other hand, are easy to compare and thus no debate.

Lastly, many don't know the difference between opinion and fact, or make a conclusion based on a false premise.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:19 AM   #19
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Lastly, many don't know the difference between opinion and fact
Is that statement opinion or fact? Or as taught in law school argue that facts counter to your position are just unsubstantiated statements.
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Old 02-05-2015, 10:51 AM   #20
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I think the most hotly debated topics are matters of opinion and perception rather than matters of fact. Engine oil and fuel additives, for example. Their effectiveness is nearly impossible to prove, yet people will debate and defend until they are blue in the face. Same with different micron sized fuel filters. Same with anchors. Same with single vs twin.

All these topics have little to no provable right answer. They are either un-provable (if that a word?), or a matter of personal opinion, judgement, or belief.

It's the difference between "This, I believe" and "This, I know". We cling to our beliefs, and often shun knowledge. And the more "magical" the belief, the more we cling to it. Rope isn't very magical, so we don't get hung up on it (not pun intended). But an anchor that lurks in the hidden depths of the murky water and determines our fate on a stormy night.... well, what's more magical than that? Humans are curious creatures, for sure. That I believe. Or do I know it? OK, now I'm confused.
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