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Old 09-12-2015, 06:48 PM   #21
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In general I think most well-designed, well-built boats can take far more than the typical recreational boater can or is willng to. ...
I agree! My boat outclasses me in taking rough seas. That's why I take ships to transit oceans.
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Old 09-12-2015, 07:02 PM   #22
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Thanks Marin great explanation.

There is a underllying attitude or belief if you will among some boaters that if you do not have a FD boat your boat is not seaworthy enough to be out on the ocean.

That is a wonderful beleif, right up until people actually look at the boats running along coastlines and realize that quite a few of them are just "normal" boats. Bayliners, Carvers, Grand Banks for the more monied up ones, Navigators, all kinds of boats.

It's funny, if you read every one of my posts, I have never knocked anybodies boat or boat type. I just wish that same courtesy were extended in both directions. Not just to me but to all the SD and planing boat owners out there.

Kevin,
If you study the elements of boat design that are lend seaworthyness to a boat you'll find the FD boat to be way to well ahead of SD types. That is to say that a good FD boat is more seaworthy than a good SD boat. No doubt about it. How much more or less seaworthy varies widely among boats and some SD boats are more seaworthy than some FD boats. And in or on a breaking inlet a SD may be better than a FD. But out in the big water blue or brown I'd put my money on a FD 40' Willard over a 42' GB. And you'll notice that Passagemakers are almost all FD. And those that are a bit SD are full of design features that would be unwelcome on a cruising SD boat.

So ... IMO .. The average SD boat (like most on this forum) are not as seaworthy as most FD boats.

You can make significant jaunts out into the ocean (as you have done) but it's dependant on good weather. In bad weather (30' breaking seas ect) I don't think a SD trawler would last long.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:13 PM   #23
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As you gents have noted above several times, Just cause you can, doesn't mean you should.
I'm a wuss when it comes to bad weather, I have no problem watching that nasty weather while at anchor in a protected cove or tied up to the dock.
And my Admiral really appreciates my decision to stay put and wait it out. It's supposed to be fun.
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:30 PM   #24
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I think it's hilarious that so many knowledgeable people cannot differentiate between two things with the same name. A 787 is an airplane. So is a Cessna. One would never mistake a two seat Cessna for a commercial people mover or argue it is not an airplane so what is the problem with recreational trawlers and fishing trawlers?
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Old 09-12-2015, 08:39 PM   #25
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Kevin,
If you study the elements of boat design that are lend seaworthyness to a boat you'll find the FD boat to be way to well ahead of SD types. That is to say that a good FD boat is more seaworthy than a good SD boat. No doubt about it. How much more or less seaworthy varies widely among boats and some SD boats are more seaworthy than some FD boats. And in or on a breaking inlet a SD may be better than a FD. But out in the big water blue or brown I'd put my money on a FD 40' Willard over a 42' GB. And you'll notice that Passagemakers are almost all FD. And those that are a bit SD are full of design features that would be unwelcome on a cruising SD boat.

So ... IMO .. The average SD boat (like most on this forum) are not as seaworthy as most FD boats.

You can make significant jaunts out into the ocean (as you have done) but it's dependant on good weather. In bad weather (30' breaking seas ect) I don't think a SD trawler would last long.
Agreed!

But if both are seaworthy enough to withstand not only the conditions we choose to venture out in, but the conditions we have all been caught in, then both are suitable for use.

The advantage of a FD passagemakker is they can venture out beyong the reasonable forecast window, not that they are seaworthy while the rest of us in SF boats are better off using them as floating condos.
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:08 PM   #26
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Kevin,

I think you made your point well and I am surprised that there aren't more FD hulls up there. But then I am a neophyte as far as power boats.

As a non-powerboat boat owner, I am surprised at the level of what appears to be chauvinism and elitism amongst the "trawler" crowd. I shouldn't be surprised however because sailors tend to be the be the same way when they argue how only a full length keel is the only type of "real boat" to consider a "blue-water" boat, production plastic bottles like mine vs "quality" boats. Let alone get them talking about hank-on vs roller furling...

Due to posts such as yours, I have expanded the types of boats that I have been considering.
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Old 09-12-2015, 09:55 PM   #27
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Fu

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One would never mistake a two seat Cessna for a commercial people mover or argue it is not an airplane so what is the problem with recreational trawlers and fishing trawlers?
Both the 787 and Cessna are airplanes. But "trawler" is not like the word "airplane." Trawler defines a very specific type of boat that fishes with trawl gear, which is a very specific type of fishing equipment that is used in a very specific manner for very specific types of fish. It's a dictionary definition.

So calling a recreational boat a "trawler" is akin to calling a Cessna an airliner. Airliner describes a very specific type of airplane, and trawler defines a very specific type of boat.

The reason the word "trawler" is applied to recreational boats today has everything to do with marketing and nothing to do with the type of boat.
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:11 PM   #28
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This whole "seaworthiness" claim for FD hulls I find a bit amusing. I follow and regularly read many blogs of full time cruisers. The overwhelming majority of which tend to be Nordhavn owners. No idea why and not to cast aspersions but they just seem more needful to document their travels.

None of these folks, not a one, goes out searching for rough seas. None travel if the weather window does not accommodate what Kevin reports routinely taking his Bayliner out in. One blog in particular is of a stabilized N76, in Europe currently, and this couple seems almost anal about waiting for nearly glass flat seas to travel in. I sometimes wonder if many of these high dollar FD boats aren't purchased by the same folks who buy a Hummer to grocery shop in the suburbs?
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Old 09-12-2015, 11:13 PM   #29
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Both the 787 and Cessna are airplanes. But "trawler" is not like the word "airplane." Trawler defines a very specific type of boat that fishes with trawl gear, which is a very specific type of fishing equipment that is used in a very specific manner for very specific types of fish. It's a dictionary definition.

So calling a recreational boat a "trawler" is akin to calling a Cessna an airliner. Airliner describes a very specific type of airplane, and trawler defines a very specific type of boat.

The reason the word "trawler" is applied to recreational boats today has everything to do with marketing and nothing to do with the type of boat.
I yield. My boat is a slow pocket cruiser. (Pocket cruiser is the builder's description.)

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Old 09-13-2015, 12:12 AM   #30
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This whole "seaworthiness" claim for FD hulls I find a bit amusing. I follow and regularly read many blogs of full time cruisers. The overwhelming majority of which tend to be Nordhavn owners. No idea why and not to cast aspersions but they just seem more needful to document their travels.

None of these folks, not a one, goes out searching for rough seas. None travel if the weather window does not accommodate what Kevin reports routinely taking his Bayliner out in. One blog in particular is of a stabilized N76, in Europe currently, and this couple seems almost anal about waiting for nearly glass flat seas to travel in. I sometimes wonder if many of these high dollar FD boats aren't purchased by the same folks who buy a Hummer to grocery shop in the suburbs?
That actually happened to me!

Not this summer, but last summer I was walking the dock and saw a georgous N58. I stopped like I love to do with visiting boats and chatted up the owner.

He said he was waiting for good weather to cross the gulf.

My wife came down the next morning and we took off across the gulf for a 5 day excursion.
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:15 PM   #31
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OK, Marin, you make a good point. Lollygag was marketed as a "Modern Trawler" back in the day but as a SD hull with two engines and no way to drag a net she doesn't qualify as a "trawler." I'll refer to her as a "Recreational Trawler."
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Old 09-13-2015, 01:57 PM   #32
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O
I'll refer to her as a "Recreational Trawler."
That's like calling a Cessna a "recreational airliner" but whatever works for you is what works for you.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:11 PM   #33
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That's like calling a Cessna a "recreational airliner" but whatever works for you is what works for you.
Sad to say, from an old timer's perspective, words are becoming less meaningful as "progress" speeds up, acronyms take over and neophytes occupy the driver's seat, kitchen and bathroom. It all started with bumpers, ropes, and Mark Zuckerberg.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:25 PM   #34
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Choose one...spend time (FD) or spend $ on fuel (SD)

Fact is that a SD transom is not nearly as efficient as a FD transom at hull speed, but if you want to go faster, you give up on slow speed efficiency with the SD hull form.

Kevin, you must have excluded me because of my numbers, but I can say for certain that we operate in weather that you do not. I would not trade my FD hull for your SD hull, even though there are times that I would like to have your speed while crossing the Gulf.

One trip in April we had easy 20' rollers with 25-30kts SE. We ended up way off shore for the necessary tack. In all of these trips, I know the boat can take more than the crew.

For the casual boater, weekend warrior, sport fisherman, coastal cruiser, the SD hull can offer something the FD hull cannot...speed. For those needing long range and don't have many time commitments like a Monday am job, FD is hard to beat.

Just for fun, here is a video exiting Bainbridge southbound for the Gulf. The anchor hawse holes are 7.5' from the water. I look out 13-14' above the water from the helm. It never looks as impressive with pictures and video, but it was a fun ride.

Video
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:32 PM   #35
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Cool video, thanks for posting it. Is yours a commercial fishing vessel?
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:37 PM   #36
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Choose one...spend time (FD) or spend $ on fuel (SD)

Fact is that a SD transom is not nearly as efficient as a FD transom at hull speed, but if you want to go faster, you give up on slow speed efficiency with the SD hull form.

Kevin, you must have excluded me because of my numbers, but I can say for certain that we operate in weather that you do not. I would not trade my FD hull for your SD hull, even though there are times that I would like to have your speed while crossing the Gulf.

One trip in April we had easy 20' rollers with 25-30kts SE. We ended up way off shore for the necessary tack. In all of these trips, I know the boat can take more than the crew.

For the casual boater, weekend warrior, sport fisherman, coastal cruiser, the SD hull can offer something the FD hull cannot...speed. For those needing long range and don't have many time commitments like a Monday am job, FD is hard to beat.

Just for fun, here is a video exiting Bainbridge southbound for the Gulf. The anchor hawse holes are 7.5' from the water. I look out 13-14' above the water from the helm. It never looks as impressive with pictures and video, but it was a fun ride.

Video

Just for the record guys and gals AK fish keeps his boat two slips down from me in Seward, Alaska.

Brett, yes if you go out in 20' rollers with 25-30 kt winds you choose to go out in conditions I would never choose to go out in.

Me, I'd much rather stay in port during those conditions. Then I can sit on my boat, have a beer, and listen to the sea stories from the guys braver than I

And just so you know, TF'ers the seas Brett posted the video of haden't even built yet. I know the area from his video like the back of my hand and he was in a relativly protected spot. You can see the headland on the left of the video. Once he cleared that the seas probably doubled in size from what you are seeing in his video since the winds were from the South east and he was heading close to due south duriing the video. Then he would have had to make a right turn to cross the gulf which would put the seas on his beam to aft beam, not pretty at all.

Brett the things you commercial guys will do to get your shrimp to market are amazing!
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:40 PM   #37
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Yes...shrimper. But, not a shrimp trawler. We use pot gear and catch spot prawns. We like to refer to the boat finish as "high end commercial" which is not nearly as fancy as KSanders' mega-yacht.
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Old 09-13-2015, 02:59 PM   #38
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Just for fun, here is a video exiting Bainbridge southbound for the Gulf. The anchor hawse holes are 7.5' from the water. I look out 13-14' above the water from the helm. It never looks as impressive with pictures and video, but it was a fun ride.
Yes, very cool. Any chance you could give us a video tour of the boat?
She all aluminum?
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:00 PM   #39
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If you have any other short videos of your boat in action, including the shrimping, it would be great to see them. Do your prawns get exported or are they for local consumption?
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Old 09-13-2015, 03:09 PM   #40
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Yes...shrimper. But, not a shrimp trawler. We use pot gear and catch spot prawns. We like to refer to the boat finish as "high end commercial" which is not nearly as fancy as KSanders' mega-yacht.
Are those Donalson/Ladner or Tanner stackable shrimp pots on your bow?
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