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Old 12-28-2015, 12:45 AM   #121
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So the bigger boats are where the builders have their sights. Why because the market is allowing bigger profit margins? Is that not what is happening with cars the dealer pushes options where profit is higher. With the relatively small production #s in boats it does not pay for a builder to continue building the smaller models which made their name particularly since they would be competing with their older used models on the market. They are under pressure to come out with something bigger and better that would make a owner of the smaller older boat want to trade up. New start ups may start small and if their branding becomes successful the boats usually start escalating in size and profit margin. I don't think there is any mystery involved.
I still don't see that many builders who have dropped smaller models though. And for every one I see that has, I see new builders offering them, depending on our definition of smaller.
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Old 12-28-2015, 01:32 AM   #122
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This thread caused me to go looking and I found one builder that seems to have returned to the "under 50' " market.

Hatteras

Ranger Tug introduced its newest model, at 23' it's the second smallest they offer. The price is breathtaking but it's little sister the 21'er is well appointed and has a base price less than that of a new 1 ton crew cab pickup and there are thousands of those on the highway.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:07 AM   #123
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This thread caused me to go looking and I found one builder that seems to have returned to the "under 50' " market.

Hatteras

.
Sort of. The Hatteras 45 Express is really just a slightly updated Cabo 44. It got a name plate switch along the process of the build while Cabo was dropped as a brand. Whether Hatteras will revive Cabo in some form in future years remains an unknown. Some have speculated Cabo might come back as a center console type boat or open in some fashion. So, actually this move represents the elimination of a smaller boat brand.

The entire SF market has changed quite a bit the last few years. Viking has assumed the leadership role by a huge margin with Hatteras trailing. Viking builds from 42' to 92'. Hatteras offers the 45 Express and Convertibles from 54'-77'. They offer MY's from 60'-100'.

Brands no longer with us include Cabo, Bertram and Post. One or more may at some point be revived.

There are many other builders and a few, like Albemarle concentrate on smaller models. They offer from 25' to 41'. Some of the family that once owned Cabo is restarting a SF line similar to the old Cabo. Jarrett Bay offers a semi-production 34'. Stamas builds 27'-40'.

There are a huge number of custom SF builders up and down the East Coast. Most of them concentrate on larger boats. Jim Smith's current projects are from 71'-105'. ACY has built from 42'-90'. Bayliss currently has from 64'-90' in production. The trend for the professional sportfisherman has been larger and larger.

In the under 40' range, Center Consoles have blossomed over recent years with many competitive and volume brands. They have become a great alternative to SF and for one not prepared to spend the money for a Viking or Hatteras. So there are many options in the smaller boats and SF of all sizes. Just a few brands no longer active.
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Old 12-28-2015, 02:14 AM   #124
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One other comment on the 45' Hatteras. The Express without the tower has been very popular as a family boat.

Also, in the under 50' we have a lot of Downeast type boats. Hunt builds from 25-80'. Hinckley (same owners) from 29-55'. Sabre from 38-66'. San Juan from 30-48' the last I knew but I've lost track of them a bit. Eastbay from 44-50'. Palm Beach from 42-65'. There has been a shift from the smaller semi-displacement boat into these models.
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Old 12-29-2015, 11:54 AM   #125
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The price of a boat isn't necessarily directly proportional to what it cost to build.
True that. Back in 1979 My dad bought one of the first CSY 37's out of the factory. Was the Annapolis show boat. Took em a few years to realize they cost more to build than what they were selling them for... They were most interested in building to supply their Caribbean charter fleet so didn't pay as much attention to cost when they started selling at retail....
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Old 12-29-2015, 12:32 PM   #126
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I'll draw another parallel to the residential housing market. In my area, a 2500 sf house can be much cheaper per square foot than an 1800 sf house. Assuming both are 2.5 bathroom homes with 2 car garages, both houses have nearly the same cost in: the kitchen, the bathrooms, the landscaping, the dirt (the lot), the driveway, and the utility services. So, if a buyer can swing a slightly bigger monthly payment, he gets a lot more "bang for his buck". He probably won't get another bathroom, or higher-end finishes, but he'll get a lot more volume.

I think a similar economy of scale is at work with boats.
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Old 12-29-2015, 01:35 PM   #127
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I'll draw another parallel to the residential housing market. In my area, a 2500 sf house can be much cheaper per square foot than an 1800 sf house. Assuming both are 2.5 bathroom homes with 2 car garages, both houses have nearly the same cost in: the kitchen, the bathrooms, the landscaping, the dirt (the lot), the driveway, and the utility services. So, if a buyer can swing a slightly bigger monthly payment, he gets a lot more "bang for his buck". He probably won't get another bathroom, or higher-end finishes, but he'll get a lot more volume.

I think a similar economy of scale is at work with boats.
Compare the old Krogen 42, or current 44 with a Krogen 48. Almost same boat with more volume.
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:00 PM   #128
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Here's a new boat to toss into the conversation of what is and isn't. The Beneteau Swift Trawler 30, being built in the Four Winns/Glastron facility. 32', 11'7" beam, 3'5" draft, 300 - 370 hp., I'm guessing cruise of around 15 knots and WOT of close to 20 knots. One or two cabins with salon sofa that makes into a bed. Flybridge.

Now when talking trawler type boats, I see it's biggest shortcoming as range as it only carries 190 gallons of fuel. Definitely aimed though at the younger family boater.
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Old 12-29-2015, 02:04 PM   #129
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Great Discussion

When I made this original post I thought it would stir up some debate and discussion. Based on the number of responses and different views it appears to be mission accomplished. I continue to find the wealth of information (and opinions) very valuable here on TF. Thanks to everyone for your responses.

I'm also pleased to see the post confirming that Hatteras is doing something with the former Cabo line of boats. I always wondered what happened to the family owned business which I believe began in the high desert of southern California (strange place to build boats I always thought) and less than 100 miles from where we live.

Happy Holidays

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Old 12-29-2015, 02:33 PM   #130
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I'm also pleased to see the post confirming that Hatteras is doing something with the former Cabo line of boats. I always wondered what happened to the family owned business which I believe began in the high desert of southern California (strange place to build boats I always thought) and less than 100 miles from where we live.

Happy Holidays

John
Well, they're not currently doing anything with the Cabo line, just one former Cabo boat. I thought Cabo was a nice line but Hatteras apparently decided otherwise.
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Old 12-29-2015, 03:04 PM   #131
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Ranger Tug introduced its newest model, at 23' it's the second smallest they offer. The price is breathtaking but it's little sister the 21'er is well appointed and has a base price less than that of a new 1 ton crew cab pickup and there are thousands of those on the highway.
They seem to be doing some interesting things in the small trawler area...
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Old 12-29-2015, 04:16 PM   #132
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Ranger Tug introduced its newest model, at 23' it's the second smallest they offer. The price is breathtaking but it's little sister the 21'er is well appointed and has a base price less than that of a new 1 ton crew cab pickup and there are thousands of those on the highway.
The 21 makes me think Picnic Boat and I mean that complimentary. Just a very nice boat for cruising the canals and ICW, going on a picnic, taking it to a restaurant. The bimini top allows protection from the sun but still nice open space to sit and talk. I didn't see what engine it comes with and I even went through their Build a Boat. Do you know?
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Old 12-29-2015, 08:19 PM   #133
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The 21 makes me think Picnic Boat and I mean that complimentary. Just a very nice boat for cruising the canals and ICW, going on a picnic, taking it to a restaurant. The bimini top allows protection from the sun but still nice open space to sit and talk. I didn't see what engine it comes with and I even went through their Build a Boat. Do you know?
I'd place a bet on they being a one or two cyl. Yanmar.

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Old 12-29-2015, 08:34 PM   #134
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The 21' Ranger only comes with outboard power as far as I know. To my mind the best way to power anything that small, and you can't beat a "4 bolt tune up" if the engine ever goes bang.
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Old 12-29-2015, 09:08 PM   #135
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The 21' Ranger only comes with outboard power as far as I know. To my mind the best way to power anything that small, and you can't beat a "4 bolt tune up" if the engine ever goes bang.
I love outboards - that can be raised out of the water!

Many outdrives languish too much too long in the water, and, when kept in saltwater they act like Alka-Seltzer!

4 bolt tune ups or full-on engine changes - - > ROCK!!
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Old 12-29-2015, 09:11 PM   #136
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The 21' Ranger only comes with outboard power as far as I know.
It's the new 23' Ranger that comes with outboard and sterndrive models. The 21' Ranger (R-21 EC) comes with a diesel inboard. The picture from their site shows a Volvo Penta D1-30.
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Old 12-29-2015, 09:16 PM   #137
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The 21' Ranger only comes with outboard power as far as I know. To my mind the best way to power anything that small, and you can't beat a "4 bolt tune up" if the engine ever goes bang.
Actually in the gallery found it with a Volvo D1-30. Then I found a Video with Jeff Messmer at the Miami Boat show and it has a 30 hp Yanmar in that. Perhaps it has those as options as well as outboard. I haven't found a photo or notes with the outboard.
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Old 12-29-2015, 09:38 PM   #138
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Never seen one w an OB.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:11 AM   #139
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I believe Eric is correct. A check of their website indicates that all their models, including the 21-footer, are powered with Volvo Penta diesels.
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Old 12-31-2015, 01:34 AM   #140
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The next bargain trawler type boats...

Will be outboards. There has been a tiny bit of action here and there, but no reason for there not to be more, especially with the added hp of today's outboards. Tremendous money savings with the added benefit of space savings.
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