I still don't see that many builders who have dropped smaller models though. And for every one I see that has, I see new builders offering them, depending on our definition of smaller.
Where Have All The Smaller Trawlers Gone?
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I still don't see that many builders who have dropped smaller models though. And for every one I see that has, I see new builders offering them, depending on our definition of smaller.
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
This thread caused me to go looking and I found one builder that seems to have returned to the "under 50' " market.
Hatteras
Ranger Tug introduced its newest model, at 23' it's the second smallest they offer. The price is breathtaking but it's little sister the 21'er is well appointed and has a base price less than that of a new 1 ton crew cab pickup and there are thousands of those on the highway.
Hatteras
Ranger Tug introduced its newest model, at 23' it's the second smallest they offer. The price is breathtaking but it's little sister the 21'er is well appointed and has a base price less than that of a new 1 ton crew cab pickup and there are thousands of those on the highway.
Sort of. The Hatteras 45 Express is really just a slightly updated Cabo 44. It got a name plate switch along the process of the build while Cabo was dropped as a brand. Whether Hatteras will revive Cabo in some form in future years remains an unknown. Some have speculated Cabo might come back as a center console type boat or open in some fashion. So, actually this move represents the elimination of a smaller boat brand.
The entire SF market has changed quite a bit the last few years. Viking has assumed the leadership role by a huge margin with Hatteras trailing. Viking builds from 42' to 92'. Hatteras offers the 45 Express and Convertibles from 54'-77'. They offer MY's from 60'-100'.
Brands no longer with us include Cabo, Bertram and Post. One or more may at some point be revived.
There are many other builders and a few, like Albemarle concentrate on smaller models. They offer from 25' to 41'. Some of the family that once owned Cabo is restarting a SF line similar to the old Cabo. Jarrett Bay offers a semi-production 34'. Stamas builds 27'-40'.
There are a huge number of custom SF builders up and down the East Coast. Most of them concentrate on larger boats. Jim Smith's current projects are from 71'-105'. ACY has built from 42'-90'. Bayliss currently has from 64'-90' in production. The trend for the professional sportfisherman has been larger and larger.
In the under 40' range, Center Consoles have blossomed over recent years with many competitive and volume brands. They have become a great alternative to SF and for one not prepared to spend the money for a Viking or Hatteras. So there are many options in the smaller boats and SF of all sizes. Just a few brands no longer active.
One other comment on the 45' Hatteras. The Express without the tower has been very popular as a family boat.
Also, in the under 50' we have a lot of Downeast type boats. Hunt builds from 25-80'. Hinckley (same owners) from 29-55'. Sabre from 38-66'. San Juan from 30-48' the last I knew but I've lost track of them a bit. Eastbay from 44-50'. Palm Beach from 42-65'. There has been a shift from the smaller semi-displacement boat into these models.
Also, in the under 50' we have a lot of Downeast type boats. Hunt builds from 25-80'. Hinckley (same owners) from 29-55'. Sabre from 38-66'. San Juan from 30-48' the last I knew but I've lost track of them a bit. Eastbay from 44-50'. Palm Beach from 42-65'. There has been a shift from the smaller semi-displacement boat into these models.
Heron
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True that. Back in 1979 My dad bought one of the first CSY 37's out of the factory. Was the Annapolis show boat. Took em a few years to realize they cost more to build than what they were selling them for... They were most interested in building to supply their Caribbean charter fleet so didn't pay as much attention to cost when they started selling at retail....
ABfish
Senior Member
I'll draw another parallel to the residential housing market. In my area, a 2500 sf house can be much cheaper per square foot than an 1800 sf house. Assuming both are 2.5 bathroom homes with 2 car garages, both houses have nearly the same cost in: the kitchen, the bathrooms, the landscaping, the dirt (the lot), the driveway, and the utility services. So, if a buyer can swing a slightly bigger monthly payment, he gets a lot more "bang for his buck". He probably won't get another bathroom, or higher-end finishes, but he'll get a lot more volume.
I think a similar economy of scale is at work with boats.
I think a similar economy of scale is at work with boats.
Bay Pelican
Moderator Emeritus
Compare the old Krogen 42, or current 44 with a Krogen 48. Almost same boat with more volume.
Here's a new boat to toss into the conversation of what is and isn't. The Beneteau Swift Trawler 30, being built in the Four Winns/Glastron facility. 32', 11'7" beam, 3'5" draft, 300 - 370 hp., I'm guessing cruise of around 15 knots and WOT of close to 20 knots. One or two cabins with salon sofa that makes into a bed. Flybridge.
Now when talking trawler type boats, I see it's biggest shortcoming as range as it only carries 190 gallons of fuel. Definitely aimed though at the younger family boater.
Now when talking trawler type boats, I see it's biggest shortcoming as range as it only carries 190 gallons of fuel. Definitely aimed though at the younger family boater.
Great Discussion
When I made this original post I thought it would stir up some debate and discussion. Based on the number of responses and different views it appears to be mission accomplished. I continue to find the wealth of information (and opinions) very valuable here on TF. Thanks to everyone for your responses.
I'm also pleased to see the post confirming that Hatteras is doing something with the former Cabo line of boats. I always wondered what happened to the family owned business which I believe began in the high desert of southern California (strange place to build boats I always thought) and less than 100 miles from where we live.
Happy Holidays
John
When I made this original post I thought it would stir up some debate and discussion. Based on the number of responses and different views it appears to be mission accomplished. I continue to find the wealth of information (and opinions) very valuable here on TF. Thanks to everyone for your responses.
I'm also pleased to see the post confirming that Hatteras is doing something with the former Cabo line of boats. I always wondered what happened to the family owned business which I believe began in the high desert of southern California (strange place to build boats I always thought) and less than 100 miles from where we live.
Happy Holidays
John
Well, they're not currently doing anything with the Cabo line, just one former Cabo boat. I thought Cabo was a nice line but Hatteras apparently decided otherwise.
The 21 makes me think Picnic Boat and I mean that complimentary. Just a very nice boat for cruising the canals and ICW, going on a picnic, taking it to a restaurant. The bimini top allows protection from the sun but still nice open space to sit and talk. I didn't see what engine it comes with and I even went through their Build a Boat. Do you know?
CPseudonym
Moderator Emeritus
The 21' Ranger only comes with outboard power as far as I know. To my mind the best way to power anything that small, and you can't beat a "4 bolt tune up" if the engine ever goes bang.
I love outboards - that can be raised out of the water!
Many outdrives languish too much too long in the water, and, when kept in saltwater they act like Alka-Seltzer!
4 bolt tune ups or full-on engine changes - - > ROCK!!
TimButterfield
Veteran Member
It's the new 23' Ranger that comes with outboard and sterndrive models. The 21' Ranger (R-21 EC) comes with a diesel inboard. The picture from their site shows a Volvo Penta D1-30.
Actually in the gallery found it with a Volvo D1-30. Then I found a Video with Jeff Messmer at the Miami Boat show and it has a 30 hp Yanmar in that. Perhaps it has those as options as well as outboard. I haven't found a photo or notes with the outboard.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Never seen one w an OB.
The next bargain trawler type boats...
Will be outboards. There has been a tiny bit of action here and there, but no reason for there not to be more, especially with the added hp of today's outboards. Tremendous money savings with the added benefit of space savings.
Will be outboards. There has been a tiny bit of action here and there, but no reason for there not to be more, especially with the added hp of today's outboards. Tremendous money savings with the added benefit of space savings.
Donsan
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On the Great Harbour blog, they indicated the new Transportable Trawler (TT) will be powered by outboards and cited two 60Hp 4 stroke Suzuki's. They claim it will get at least 3Mpgs at 15 knots.
Three of TT's are in production now and they want to have them ready for the fall boat shows. They are looking for 3 owners to buy and participate in promotional activities. Unfortunately and maybe due to competitive reason, they haven't published the specs.
Great Harbour Trawlers - Great Harbour blog
I read most of the link; reviewed it in total - TY for providing. Impressive design thoughts and user potentials. Looking forward to hear more about the GHT TT's as the concept unfolds and their three test package TT's get used in marine conditions. Imagine there "might" be a sizable market-place for sales if most of what is mentioned becomes reality.
Short of it would be nice to be able to trailer "when desired"... I'm remain quite attached to our classic sea going and gunk hole capable hull design, comfortably livable accommodations, wet storage Tollycraft.
On different levels of my life's doings there were times when I was towing small, medium, and some very large units down the roads. Soooo... 6K lb. anticipated TT boat dry weight with a trailer weight of some 2K lb., and approx. 2K lb. gear-load = 10K lbs. (5 tons - seemingly minimum tow weight). With a length of 33' +/- behind the 20' + tow rig = 50' + going down any road. Doable for sure... but, I don't believe too many general vacationers would want to be responsible for handling that scope of a tow-unit-package. Additionally, the motorized tow rig for that considerable mass and length needs to be one heck of a stout truck or van; surely all wheel drive for handling any launch-ramp needs/conditions. A new towing rig's cost would be in $75 to $100 K + range. Additionally, what else would you do with that big tow rig?? Simply park it... till next boat use is desired.
Main concerns I see for often-times users of a TT is the launch, retrieve, and storage circumstances. For a "trailer" boat that size at ramps (if a ramp conducive to its easy launch/retrieve is can be located) there will be considerable time and effort spent on both the in and out sequences. As well, once out of water what do you do with a 5 ton 30 + foot long mass attached to a great big tow rig?? Matter of fact... what do you do with the entire tow package (20' + truck and 30' + trailer = 50' +) for parking them while out in the water for days or weeks. And, once back on the trailer... Do you... place it in open field dry storage at a marina that has acceptable boat ramp and then take time to cover the boat when leaving, until next-time usage, so field dust does not cover it inside and out, or, do you take it home and park it in your massive driveway so that neighbors don't complain??
I don't mean to shoot holes in a "pocket trawler boat" such as Great Harbor's TT... but reality concerning all usage parameters concerning a tow behind boat is just that - REALITY!!
The three boat TT tests that Great Harbor is planning to accomplish seems to concern water use only; that is all well and good. But, if the TT boat and all its needs for towing down the road are simply too big a hurdle for the general boat user... then TT's market may shrink to a minimum size.
Good luck Great Harbor Trawlers - I wish you the best luck. With interest, I will be reading about your TT boats while relaxing on the bridge of our Tollycraft!
Happy "Trailer-Trawler" Boat Design Daze! - Art
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Nomad Willy
Guru
Trawlers are heavy and slow boats.
Trailer boats are small and light. The opposite of trawlers.
Having a trawler is vouge now .. so vouge there's many boaters about calling their boats trawlers despite the fact that there's nothing trawler-like about them. Trawlers are the new cool and everybody wants to be cool of course. A sea of trawler wannabies. But unless they are quite heavy they just arent trawlers. Sea Dory started calling their OB camper cruisers " trailerable trawlers" just to popularize their brand just like GH is attempting to do but it didn't make them trawlers then and it dosn't now. Outboard trawlering is a wannabie world .. connected to the real world but only by a thread.
When he first came on to TF Art tried very hard to get us to accept his Tollycraft Cruiser as a trawler. Much was said and it eventially became obvious it just wasn't so. By that time we knew we couldn't do w/o Art and he realized we had accepted him and he's been a treasured member ever since. But his Cruiser is still a Cruiser. And if Art's Tolly isn't a trawler no OB even comes close.
In their masked parade GH may sell a few more boats but I don't see a revolution comming.
Trailer boats are small and light. The opposite of trawlers.
Having a trawler is vouge now .. so vouge there's many boaters about calling their boats trawlers despite the fact that there's nothing trawler-like about them. Trawlers are the new cool and everybody wants to be cool of course. A sea of trawler wannabies. But unless they are quite heavy they just arent trawlers. Sea Dory started calling their OB camper cruisers " trailerable trawlers" just to popularize their brand just like GH is attempting to do but it didn't make them trawlers then and it dosn't now. Outboard trawlering is a wannabie world .. connected to the real world but only by a thread.
When he first came on to TF Art tried very hard to get us to accept his Tollycraft Cruiser as a trawler. Much was said and it eventially became obvious it just wasn't so. By that time we knew we couldn't do w/o Art and he realized we had accepted him and he's been a treasured member ever since. But his Cruiser is still a Cruiser. And if Art's Tolly isn't a trawler no OB even comes close.
In their masked parade GH may sell a few more boats but I don't see a revolution comming.
Yo Eric - - > Wo, Pony Wo - That's maybe your perception... but it's just not so!
From the gate I have always said that the word Trawler, as used for pleasure boating, is a non-starter. I've always said that I currently own and have always owned "Pleasure Boats" or "Cabin Cruisers" I often distinctly added that out Tolly is not to be considered as a "Trawler".
And that, in my opinion, the word "Trawler" in regard to pleasure crafts is simply a marketing hype.
Even Marin and I agree on this point! - LOL Come on Marin... chime in here to help get Eric' memory back in line!
Donsan
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Just for clarity here, GH calls it a "transportable trawler" and not a "trailerable trawler" even though a trailer is being provided with the first three boats. Also, the Ranger R-27, which is billed as a trailerable boat is almost 1000 pounds more than the preliminary numbers provided by GH and the R-29 adds weight to that. The main question I have is can GH really build a 30+' boat at 6000 pounds?
sunchaser
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Did adding the words "Swift Trawler " help Beneteau's sales? Assuredly. Some owners even joined TF!
Interesting to note how many brands are popularly deemed trawlers, but never advertise themselves as one. We joined TF too.
Go figure.
Interesting to note how many brands are popularly deemed trawlers, but never advertise themselves as one. We joined TF too.
Go figure.
Ski in NC
Technical Guru
You can build light. When I built my 38, I paid no particular attention to minimizing weight, using plywood for bulkheads, adding extra beef to the longitudinals, and using double the glass in structurally inportant areas. Boat came out to 12500lb in light config, about 14000 typical cruising load.
If I used minimal structure, minimal glass, used foam for bkhds and interior, used a 1200lb engine instead of a 2200lb engine, skipped the 400lb gennie.... I could get the weight down to probably 9000lb. Scale wise, that would put it close to GH and their 6000.
It costs money to save weight. Both the materials are more expensive and more man hours.
If I used minimal structure, minimal glass, used foam for bkhds and interior, used a 1200lb engine instead of a 2200lb engine, skipped the 400lb gennie.... I could get the weight down to probably 9000lb. Scale wise, that would put it close to GH and their 6000.
It costs money to save weight. Both the materials are more expensive and more man hours.
"Trawler" in vogue? Only with a very narrow demographic. Certainly not with most of the trailering group, although perhaps with some who would like to be able to have it transported to different bodies of water. Trailering has really dropped in popularity in the last 15 years except on various fishing boats where they want to explore different bodies of water and likely own large pickup trucks as well. Fishermen will go to the trouble. The average family with the runabout finds themselves using the boat far less as time goes on.
A boat of the general size of the new Swift Trawler 30 could easily be made to operate on outboards. Even several size larger ST's could.
Outboards have many of the benefits of pods without some of the drawbacks. On a smaller boat they have the added benefit of not taking up space inside the boat.
A boat of the general size of the new Swift Trawler 30 could easily be made to operate on outboards. Even several size larger ST's could.
Outboards have many of the benefits of pods without some of the drawbacks. On a smaller boat they have the added benefit of not taking up space inside the boat.
Nomad Willy
Guru
I like outboards even better than trawlers.
But that dosn't make Ob's trawlers.
But that dosn't make Ob's trawlers.
Coincidentally, I signed up on Pinterest yesterday. You have to pick 5 topic areas. Trawler? Nada. Powerboat? Same. Not sure what I did but now I'm getting pontoon boats. Ugh.
Keith
