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Old 12-24-2015, 07:22 PM   #61
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We lived on Bay Pelican continuously for 14 months and now do so for four to five months a year. At 42 feet she is sufficient and comfortable. We found we are limited, however, to only 35 guests for a cocktail party at anchor. ...
Sheesh, I doubt I can come up with 35 different persons I'd like to associate with.



(At the Pittsburg Marina, for a refueling get-together with other TFers.)
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Old 12-24-2015, 07:27 PM   #62
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The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure....
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:00 PM   #63
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Wifey B:

See post 56...
Just a little excerpt....
Good one WifeyB. The thread needed that. This "what's a small boat, what's a large boat", and who makes what, thread could go on forever, as to what is small, and what is big.

All I know is mine, is MIDDLE SIZED, so there...
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Old 12-24-2015, 08:55 PM   #64
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The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure....

OMG! I have a BIG boat! Who'd a thunk?
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Old 12-24-2015, 10:44 PM   #65
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We lived on Bay Pelican continuously for 14 months and now do so for four to five months a year. At 42 feet she is sufficient and comfortable. We found we are limited, however, to only 35 guests for a cocktail party at anchor.

For every benefit I can think of with a larger boat I can think of a downside. I concede that someone who has lived on a 48 foot boat may have the same thoughts.
If I was on Bay Pelican and 35 guests, it would soon be down to 34 as I'd leap into the water for sure. That's too many people for me. Panic would definitely set in.

And if Bay Pelican was 142' instead of 42' I'd feel the same.
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Old 12-25-2015, 12:30 AM   #66
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The bigger boat does typically allow you to cruise in bigger water. That may or may not be a concern for some.
Not always so in my experience. A lot depends on the boats design. In Four to six foot seas I would rather be in a 32 ft low center of gravity lobster type than a three story high sided boxy trawler particularly if there were no stabilizers involved in the equation. Put stabilizers on the big boat then match it to the lobster boat with gyro stabilization and I think the little boat wins again. While boats like the lobster type are not meant to cross oceans the owners of most big boxy trawlers are also not crossing big open water and perhaps ocean hopping boats should be considered in a separate category. I have cruised the PNW and a good part of the east coast and a well found 30 footer can go anywhere a 50+ footer can and usually both travel in the same weather and lay over similarly when needed.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:35 AM   #67
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...This model runs into trouble when they stop building the smallerTed models where younger consumers start.

Ted
Ted and Marin are right on in my opinion.

Taken to the end, we'd end up with only the largest boats being made.

The market is changing and only those who understand that now will survive.

The visionaries who started these companies are almost all gone, replaced by place holders who seldom have the same vision.

Thus more and more companies chasing the same fewer and fewer customers.

The survivors will figure out new markets as to sustain a model line that appeals to many.


Toyota offers a large two door Land Rover, SUV, as it's smaller. it would never sell in USA, but they understand that they must also keep the smaller line.

Europe and Asia is where the future growth will come in true efficient small trawlers, as that's where the need is.

With high fuel costs, many more Europeans don't cruise at all.

The market for small, efficient boats is still there for those who know to look.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:43 AM   #68
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For coastal stuff the bigger boat just has less weather down time.
Very well put!
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Old 12-25-2015, 07:01 AM   #69
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"For coastal stuff the bigger boat just has less weather down time."

Perhaps but for most coastal cruising a 25-30 IO will fit the bill and most do have a 400% speed advantage over the usual trawlery type boat .

25 mph is easy to obtain with no outrageous fuel bill.

25mph in a 40-50 ft vessel is pricey indeed.
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Old 12-25-2015, 08:42 AM   #70
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Different types of people gravitate to different types of boats and styles of boating. Most of my marina neighbors have 30' sport cruisers (Sea Ray, Bayliner, etc.) and they are happy with them. Most are younger, still working and can't take off a month or two a couple times a year to cruise.


My wife and I are retired and enjoy the journey as much as the destination so 7 knots at <2 GPH suits us just fine.


Your mileage may vary.
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Old 12-25-2015, 11:54 AM   #71
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Late 1950's to very early 60's on dad's 4 week vacations we more than once cruised New England coast (NY to Boston) in a real quick, well outfitted 1948 23' Chris Craft Express cabin cruiser. That was parents and three small boys. Memories to last a lifetime! We all loved it; eventually grew into larger boats...

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Old 12-25-2015, 01:40 PM   #72
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Art,
Do you remember the 21' Bryants w twin Johnsonrude 35's and then 40's?
I had a 17 w a single 35 Johnson. Had a cuddy cabin and I took a 7 day trip .. SanJuans, Gulf Is and Vancouver w a run up to Pit River/Lake. Great trip.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:25 PM   #73
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In the late 1920's a young woman named Muriel Wylie Blanchet with her five children and the family dog cruised the lower BC coast for several summers in a 25' cabin cruiser. The dog rode in the dinghy towed behnd them. They had adventures some of which aren't even possible to have today.

These are the same waters some people wouldn't think of venturing into in anything less than a 42 to 52 foot boat today.

We read her book long before we decided to try this kind of cruising. When we decided to give it a shot we talked for a long time about what boat would be ideal. The first decision was size. We realized that size is the determining factor in all sorts of things from initial cost to on-board accomodations to moorage and the ongoing cost of ownership.

For two of us, a 40-50 pound dog, and an occasional pair of friends we decided that a boat in the mid-30' range would let us do everything we wanted to do from the San Juan Islands up into SE Alaska if we wanted to go that far although the BC coast has always been our primary objective in boating.

We also decided that we would be doing this kind of boating for at least 30 years so whatever boat we got would need to meet our needs for that long. We have many other interests here and in Europe so were/are not interested in hopping from boat to boat over this period.

When we started getting serious about a cruising boat our first choice was the 37' Lord Nelson Victory Tug. It is still a favorite for us. But at the time (late 1990s) they were still pretty expensive, even used. Plus the older, less expensive ones use an engine we didn't want any part of. So we started thinking about a runner up.

After talking to good friends in the boat/yacht industry we decided a 36' tri-cabin cruiser would suit our requirements. We chartered one to see if we liked it and the cruising scene in general, decided we did, and bought an old one of the same make and model that didn't tap our budget to the point of having to give up any other activity, and we're still using it going on 18 years later.

At one point we thought a larger model of the same make would be nice and we came pretty close to buying a 46-footer. But then we thought real seriously about it and came to several conclusions. One, having owned and maintained our 36-footer for a few years by then, while we enjoy workng on it, even the teak decks and brightwork, we don't want to maintain one more inch of boat.

Two, given all our other interests and their ever-increasing costs of we don't want to pay any more for moorage and insurance than we are now (knowing moorage costs will always creep up no matter what).

Three, the cabin cruiser we have now will take more than we're willing to in terms of weather and water conditions in this region so a bigger boat wouldn't gain us anything in that regard. We're never going to cruise to Hawaii, for example, if for no other reason than I grew up and started my working career there and if I ever go back again before I die it will be too soon. With regards to open ocean boating, been there, done that, got the T-shirt so an inside waters boat is all we'll ever need here.

I don't know if a 36' recreational boat is considered small, medium or large these days. It was "large" when it was built but that was back in 1973. But it's eleven feet longer than Muriel Blanchet's boat and she did things in these same waters we'll never be able or have the time to do.

The photo is the boat Muriel and her kids and dog used to explore the BC coast.

The (dwindling) affluent segment of society in this country can believe it neds the biggest and best boat possible to do anything on the water, and the manufacturers can try to capture this (dwindling) market with ever-larger and more expensive boats. But the truth is that these kinds of boats are not necessary for what at least 90 percent of the market is going to do with them.

And as the oncoming, less-affluent and less "possession-driven" generations start dominating the market for everything I suspect that if they develop an interest in cruising at all (instead of simply doing it virtually on their phones) they will look to using smaller, cheaper, less-costly to own and operate boats. If this market becomes large enough, this will spawn a new kind of boat and a new kind of boat builder.
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:28 PM   #74
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Wifey B: I haven't heard anything in this thread yet convincing me anything is gone and ,if it is, what it is, and, if it left, where it went or what the h... we're even talking about. I have heard a ton of generalizations too using words like small and big and big can't do this and small can't do this and whoa.....
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Old 12-25-2015, 02:54 PM   #75
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You, I and Al appear to be the only "Small" boat owners here...
Me too

Seven summers on our C-Dory 22 Cruiser, and seventeen so far on our 26' Bounty.
Not so spacious, but plenty of adventure. And we trailer to wherever we wish to launch.

BTW, we thought New Moon was pretty expensive 17 years ago, but now a comparable boat might cost $200K new.
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Old 12-25-2015, 03:18 PM   #76
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Me too

.
Wifey B: Me me me....

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Old 12-25-2015, 04:05 PM   #77
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Wifey B: I haven't heard anything in this thread yet convincing me anything is gone and ,if it is, what it is, and, if it left, where it went or what the h... we're even talking about. I have heard a ton of generalizations too using words like small and big and big can't do this and small can't do this and whoa.....
One assumes there is a normal attrition to boats. All manner of things happen to them that end there existence. If there is adequate production of new in that size, most don't seam to notice the loss of older boats. Clearly there seem to be a smaller percentage of these types of boats in the <35' size being made compared to 10 to 50 years ago.

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Old 12-25-2015, 04:39 PM   #78
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One assumes there is a normal attrition to boats. All manner of things happen to them that end there existence. If there is adequate production of new in that size, most don't seam to notice the loss of older boats. Clearly there seem to be a smaller percentage of these types of boats in the <35' size being made compared to 10 to 50 years ago.

Ted
Boats under 35'? Of these types? Not sure what these types are but lets suggest it's cruising boats. Now, first, can't compare 2009-15 to 2000-2008 on any type and size of boat as the market crashed and has since slowly been recovering but not to those previous levels. As to "these types", whatever that means, there are many choices in under 35'. That market has always been dominated by production builders and always will be. Sea Ray is number one, Bayliner number two. Outboards are way up, stern drives down.

I've tried to look in the broad definition of trawlers, just doing a yacht world search and look at the popular brands. Albin is still building in that range. Mainship still building. Sea Ray cannot be ignored as the Sundancer's outsell all other boats in that range. Carver still has a 34 and 37. Ranger Tugs, American Tugs, Nordic Tugs, Diesel Duck. Beneteau is new to that range and sells more volume than the vast majority of boats previously in that range. Meridian still builds in place of Bayliner.

Grand Banks was once huge in that market but they've long ago been gone from it, not just in the last ten years. Since we're now talking <35', that excludes KK. Halvorsen does now only offer a 44'.

One shift that is definitely seen in under 35' is the shift to Center Console that is a huge growth market due to the larger outboard motors available now. World Cat is doing well with their Glacier Bay series. They didn't even start until 1986 and they're the largest manufacturer of power catamarans. I have a friend who just chose a new Glacier Bay vs. an older Albin as he was getting tired of looking at older Albin's (which is what he had his heart set on) only to be disappointed in their condition. For a 27' multi-use cruising boat the Glacier Bay is very functional and very inexpensive comparatively. A comparable boat in an inboard would cost far more.

What I see missing is tons of boats where someone made a deal with a Chinese factory to make a few to order, there was no "builder" as such, just a "procurer" getting them built and often not in the same factory.

I am still missing the point of what is missing? Are we upset because they don't go as slow? If we're talking late model used boats, there's a shortage in all as you weren't building many boats from 2009-12. If we're talking volume of boats I don't see the change being discussed. If we're talking number of brands, perhaps I see it as there aren't as many of the 1 or 2 boats a year builders on every street corner. Most of the small custom builders are in SF. That's why my wife is beating her head against the wall as we're both really just trying to understand what we're saying is missing. There was a statement made regarding the ongoing trend of builders not offering their smaller sizes but I see more of that in the 40-70' range, not under 35'. The title is where have all the smaller trawlers gone and the OP hasn't said what they mean by that, which smaller trawlers, and it's being followed as if something is gone and for those relatively new to coastal boating, but having done lots of research, I remain confused.

What is it you're looking for and can't find? And don't throw price out. That's an entirely different question.
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Old 12-25-2015, 04:48 PM   #79
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From a ozz prospective to small craft this 2004 35' is for sale at $@ 198000 to have a new one build would be $270000 and a nice 2002 twin screw Mainship 39 go for $180000? So there's the answer to Australian boat building it gone finished dead in the water
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Old 12-25-2015, 05:07 PM   #80
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What is it you're looking for and can't find? And don't throw price out. That's an entirely different question.
That is the point. If more than the top 1% are going to be able to buy a new <35' family cruiser (Grand Banks, Mainship, Marine Trader, Albin,etc), some manufacturers need to offer the entry level boat. Seems to me most are building to Two Incomes No Children and not the modest family cruiser.

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