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Old 08-22-2019, 07:40 PM   #1
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Where are all the 42 foot trawlers?

Just a general conversational question. If you look back 15 years, there were tons of Grand Banks being produced at this size (weren’t there?), plus Mainships and others.

So Mainship got bought by Marlow in the recession. And now Marlow only seems to make big, fancy yachts. GB doesn’t seem to make anything under 50 feet.

Who’s filling this void? Is it all Beneteau Swift? I know there’s Helmsman, but are they selling many?

Would there not be any buyers for more 42 Grand Banks?
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Old 08-22-2019, 07:55 PM   #2
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I think it may have something to do with the wealth distribution in general.

Perhaps there are less moderately wealthy people to buy a 42 footer but a few more very wealthy people to buy 62 footers where there is a higher profit margin.
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Old 08-22-2019, 08:33 PM   #3
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If you look over the history of cruising boats, you will find they keep getting larger. With some small exception, the buying public isn't interested in cruising boats under 32'. Yet there were manufacturers like Willard that did a brisk business with boats between 25 and 32'. There was a times when a 42' Kadey Krogen was a big boat. My guess is that sub 50' boats just aren't in vogue anymore.

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Old 08-22-2019, 09:25 PM   #4
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The manufactures will always go to where they can make the higher profit margins.

The brokers don't care they just want to sell something. If it is bigger and more expensive, and they can sell it they will.

The buyers are getting where they want more, or just want to move up.

A good example is I was talking to my son last night who just moved to Denver. They bought a new house with three bedrooms, and two baths all in 3600 SQ FT. During the conversation he said we had a nice " little" house of three bedrooms and two bath in 1600 sq. ft. .

The buyers are getting where they want more, or just want to move up.
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Old 08-22-2019, 11:07 PM   #5
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But Ted the smaller boats keep getting larger too so no die-out of any size should occur. Just a theory but ........
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pontooner View Post
Just a general conversational question. If you look back 15 years, there were tons of Grand Banks being produced at this size (weren’t there?), plus Mainships and others.

So Mainship got bought by Marlow in the recession. And now Marlow only seems to make big, fancy yachts. GB doesn’t seem to make anything under 50 feet.

Who’s filling this void? Is it all Beneteau Swift? I know there’s Helmsman, but are they selling many?

Would there not be any buyers for more 42 Grand Banks?
No more GB 42s because they remeasured and found out that they are really 47 if you inclide the swimgrid and anchor pulpit.. So when you see a 47 GB it is the same boat as you used to call a 42.
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Old 08-23-2019, 09:47 AM   #7
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Nothing makes me feel worse than looking at a new boat.

I have come to the conclusion that I am far more financially worse off than I thought I was. Every time I go to a boat show I look around and ask "who is buying this stuff?". It is nothing to see a $750,000 center console from Boston Whaler. My screen saver is a used 55 Fleming on Yachtworld for $1,295,000.
I guess I zigged when I should have zagged? Maybe I need a new screen saver? Not sure if it is healthy or not to dream about stuff you are never going to have. On the other hand, there were more than a few Farah Fawcett posters in the bedrooms of my buddies. I think that is a little different though. I wonder if hormones drive boat purchases............oh yeah Donzi, Cigarette, and Skater I guess. I forgot the advice I received here lately- Is it buy the biggest boat you can afford, or buy the smallest boat you can live with? The deals in used boats are in the big boats. These kids are not buying big boats. At least not used ones. Bill
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:10 PM   #8
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Whatever happened to Randolph Scott?

Well, the big players in the trawler type market were Bayliner, Mainship, Carver, and Grand Banks.

Bayliner bought by Sea Ray, turned into Meridian and ultimately into a memory. However, part of that was also Sea Ray's emphasis on Express Cruisers and now they're being de-emphasized.

Mainship into the Marlow fold and a few still being sold.

Carver part of the Genmar bankruptcy and still floundering along poorly.

Grand Banks with many financial challenges and loss of sales, changes of leadership and direction, and turning away from slow boats into new styles, selling more Palm Beach downeast styled boats than anything.

I also hate the passing of these lines and think a brand emulating what Bayliner did with efficient manufacturing, utilitarian boats and solid quality could do well. Tugs and some of the other small brands are filling in some, but the big player today is definitely Beneteau. Their sales volume of Swift Trawlers is more today than the brands mentioned above at their peak. They have had the Gran Turismo Express Cruisers and now have introduced the Antares in outboards up to 27' and I'd expect that range to grow. Clearly Swift Trawler hit a range where a new line was needed.

There are other brands too with small offerings. Sabre makes very nice boats, both express and fly bridge. Cruisers is mostly express but they have fly bridge versions starting at 54'.

One definitely market factor is that we're talking about a size of boat typically targeting families with parents from 30 to 50 years old. These families don't have time for trawlers or slower boats, if they have time for any boating at all. They have weekends only, except a week or two at a time once or twice a year. That's why by far the largest selling cruising boat for them has been Sea Ray Sundancers.

Retirees are the "trawler" market and they largely fall into two groups. One is buying Motoryachts 50' and above and that market is led by Princess, Prestige, Sunseeker and other similar brands. The under 50' new market is limited and is largely the tugs, Swift Trawlers, Helmsman and similar.

The other group isn't in the new boat market but buying used. 8 to 12 year old models aren't available due to the horrible market during those years. This group simply can't afford or won't spend on new and when they do are looking for less expensive options than Grand Banks would be today. Grand Banks had already moved up in size and price, before being revamped.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:15 PM   #9
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I imagine the used market plays a part here as well. On some level a manufacturer like Krogen is essentially competing with it's 30 year old self in the under 50' category.
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Old 08-23-2019, 12:39 PM   #10
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I imagine the used market plays a part here as well. On some level a manufacturer like Krogen is essentially competing with it's 30 year old self in the under 50' category.
Yes, and no. I think the new buyer and the used buyer are very different and separate for the most part. There are a few of us on here who buy new and buy only new and price may influence which new boat or when but doesn't send us to used and the majority here buy used and are not new boat candidates as they would still feel used to make more sense. It's more than a financial decision, because as a new boat buyer, I'll admit that financially buying new never makes sense. My counter to that though is that financially buying a boat never makes sense.
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:11 PM   #11
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Y...I'll admit that financially buying new never makes sense. My counter to that though is that financially buying a boat never makes sense.
That would depend on your definition of sense
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Old 08-23-2019, 01:30 PM   #12
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That would depend on your definition of sense
Well, financial sense is you end up with more than you started with. I'm not staying it doesn't make sense, just it doesn't make financial sense.

I know with every boat I've ever purchased, I could have purchased used and saved 10-25% and still had a nearly new boat in excellent condition. Yet, we buy new.

I know that instead of buying boats, I could have invested and have more money than I do. Still we buy boats.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:04 PM   #13
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Yes, and no. I think the new buyer and the used buyer are very different and separate for the most part. There are a few of us on here who buy new and buy only new and price may influence which new boat or when but doesn't send us to used and the majority here buy used and are not new boat candidates as they would still feel used to make more sense. [i][b]It's more than a financial decision, because as a new boat buyer, I'll admit that financially buying new never makes sense. My counter to that though is that financially buying a boat never makes sense.[\b][\i]

I think you are right BandB. I am not a new boat buyer (although I would love to be) but I am incredibly happy that there are new boat buyers out there because they are the ones that really allow used boat buyers like myself to exist.

I also get a lot of vicarious pleasure watching the new boat buying process. Bruce and Bob are two great examples of that over the past few years.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:31 PM   #14
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I imagine the used market plays a part here as well. On some level a manufacturer like Krogen is essentially competing with it's 30 year old self in the under 50' category.

There is something that drives builders to start making larger than larger boats. I’m familiar with North Pacific Yachts since I purchased a used NP43. They are a bit unique in that the NP42 was the first boat they sold commercially, simply taking their own custom built and designed personal boat and developing a company around it. After that, they went down in size but have started the upward creep. The 42 was extended to become a 43. They then dropped in in favor of the new 45. They now have three designs in the 40-50’ range, two in the 38-39 range, and have now designed a 59’ and 62’.

This type of progress seems to be typical of a lot of builders.
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Old 08-23-2019, 03:32 PM   #15
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If you buy used, you don’t have to go through the common 6 months to a year plus dance with the builder to fix all the work left undone or done incorrectly by the factory. Many well known boat lines ship new boats to customers with 50 to 60 item punch lists of work that needs attention. (see Azimut/Benetti)
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:44 PM   #16
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I'm confused. There are many new trawler boat options in the forty to forty-five ft. range out there, especially when you apply the liberal definition of the word Trawler.


KK makes the 44
GB makes the 43
Nordhavn just introduced a 41
North Pacific makes a 45
Helmsman makes a 43
Nordic Tug makes a 40 & 44
American Tug makes a 40 & 43
Selene makes a 42 & 45
Integrity makes a 44
Explorer makes a 43
Bracewell makes a 41
Beneteau makes a 41 & 44
Ranger Tug makes a 41
Deisel Duck makes a 44


and then there are all the downeast styles - Sabre, Back Cove, Eastbay, etc.


oh, and then there are all the dutch built trawlers in this range.


There is no shortage of trawlers in the new small forty foot range...
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Old 08-23-2019, 05:51 PM   #17
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If you buy used, you don’t have to go through the common 6 months to a year plus dance with the builder to fix all the work left undone or done incorrectly by the factory. Many well known boat lines ship new boats to customers with 50 to 60 item punch lists of work that needs attention. (see Azimut/Benetti)
We've always bought new and never gone through any of what you describe. We don't buy Azimut.
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