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Old 01-12-2018, 10:07 PM   #1
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When a Tesla trawler?

For your reading pleasure my TFers fellows

https://electrek.co/2018/01/12/large...ectric-barges/

L
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:18 PM   #2
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Where is the electric power coming from to charge the battery packs? could it be fron fossil fuel powered electric plants?
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:22 PM   #3
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Where is the electric power coming from to charge the battery packs? could it be fron fossil fuel powered electric plants?
Or solar, wind, nuclear, tide turbine, waste burning, methanization of organic waste, various fuelcells, dams, and so on.

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Old 01-13-2018, 01:10 AM   #4
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Can't wait to see these boats in action, I hope it works well for them.
The containerised battery pack is a great idea, charged by renewable energy sources this will be a fantastic transport system.
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Old 01-13-2018, 05:35 AM   #5
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Where is the electric power coming from to charge the battery packs? could it be fron fossil fuel powered electric plants?
It could be, although fossil fuel power stations are becoming a more of a rare commodity all the time in developed countries. The US may be the exception.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:44 AM   #6
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It could be, although fossil fuel power stations are becoming a more of a rare commodity all the time in developed countries. The US may be the exception.
About 85% of Australia's power is generated by fossil fuels. Coal provides 73 and oil/natural gas 12%. Coal is the base load with natural gas used for peaking.

Hydro power provides about the same % as wind and solar combined in Australia. The coal fired plants could slowly be converted to natural gas, a move that requires combatting "NIMBY" types, expensive pipelines and/or LNG plants and transportation depots.

There is unfortunately much resistance to building or modifying power plants and infrastructure that could replace coal. The world's coal supplies are cheap and long lived. Australia is a major coal producer for worldwide power generation. China, India, Europe and Russia rely heavily on coal. This will not change soon.
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Old 01-13-2018, 08:57 AM   #7
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For your reading pleasure my TFers fellows

https://electrek.co/2018/01/12/large...ectric-barges/

L
I think this is a great first step. Being a small country with an extensive canal system, intercity electric barges can definitely work. With the batteries in one of the containers, they can be easily swapped out when the other containers are removed.
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Old 01-13-2018, 09:55 AM   #8
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Electric boating can exist now but only in a very limited way. Like plugging in at marinas and paying for electrons instead of fuel when you’re in range of the next marina.

A better question is “Why a Tesla trawler”. When it becomes more pleasurable and practical is the answer. Right now it mostly exists because it’s vogue and/or popular. When when it comes out of the fad box and becomes regular stuff and not new stuff it will be justifiable on its own objective merrits and not part of a social thing ... that’s when we’ll see Tesla boats. But now the Tesla is very much a fad. Not say’in it’s going to fade away (like most fads) but it exists as on popularity, not practicality.
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Old 01-13-2018, 10:55 AM   #9
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About 85% of Australia's power is generated by fossil fuels. Coal provides 73 and oil/natural gas 12%. Coal is the base load with natural gas used for peaking.

Hydro power provides about the same % as wind and solar combined in Australia. The coal fired plants could slowly be converted to natural gas, a move that requires combatting "NIMBY" types, expensive pipelines and/or LNG plants and transportation depots.

There is unfortunately much resistance to building or modifying power plants and infrastructure that could replace coal. The world's coal supplies are cheap and long lived. Australia is a major coal producer for worldwide power generation. China, India, Europe and Russia rely heavily on coal. This will not change soon.
Tom, your numbers are old, but your point is still valid.

In Australia in 2015, power generation was 32% coal, 38% oil, 24% gas, and 5.8% renewables. 2/3 of the renewables are Biomass, with the remaining being PV, wind, and hydro.

So while Australia has the benevolent climate for both solar and wind and is arguably the world leader, only 1.32% of it's energy is solar or wind. But that is over three times the world average.

In the world today, electric generation of hydro and PV combined, to the nearest whole number percentage is 0.

Yup, 99.6% of energy produced in the world is NOT solar or wind generated.

I'm not against renewables, by any means, it's just that power generation and consumption should be put in to context.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:01 AM   #10
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In the world today, electric generation of hydro and PV combined, to the nearest whole number percentage is 0.
Here it is 99%

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Old 01-13-2018, 11:07 AM   #11
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Here it is 99%

L
I live in BC.🙂 Oodles of hydro too.

However, I work in Alberta at a plant that makes a fair percentage of the grids electricity as a byproduct. The main purpose is to make steam to inject into the ground.

As far as the Tesla barge goes, it will find it's niche and be purposeful, or not.

There is a sailboat in my marina that was converted to full electrical power. Made the rounds in the trade magazines. Sat for two years and was for sale for a fraction of the install price.

Just wasn't that practical in the end.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:11 AM   #12
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Electric boating does exist now, its just in the sailing community.

In the article reference in the OP, there is also a link to Sweden building two new ferries. The two ferries will be 238 meters long (780 ft) and weight 8,414 tonnes. There will be 4 MWh (ď640 batteries of 6.5 kWh) of battery packs inside each ship. The key is the ferries will travel relatively short distances and be able to charge during the loading/unloading process.

Jim

P.s. I find it interesting that "Tesla" is getting used as a generic term for an electric vehicle.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:34 PM   #13
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Tom, your numbers are old, but your point is still valid.

In Australia in 2015, power generation was 32% coal, 38% oil, 24% gas, and 5.8% renewables. .
Mike:
Good points, one thing to get sorted out though is % coal. My trade journal although a few years old "closely" match current data.


According to originenergy.com.au the breakdown for AU electrical generation is:
  • Coal --- ----73%
  • Gas ---- ----13%
  • Hydro -- ----7%
  • Wind---- ----4%
  • Roof Solar --2%
  • Other -------1%
According to the AER government website there are similar numbers:
  • Black Coal ---- 55%
  • Brown Coal --- 22%
  • Gas ------------ 9%
  • Hydro ---------- 8%
  • Wind ------------5%
  • Other ------------!%
It would be interesting to assess the numbers. Possibly yours reflect
cars, trucks, buses ships etc.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:49 PM   #14
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In the US most Rail Roads are diesel electric, I think that when the technology is coast effective and they (the US Rail Roads) convert to battery or battery/solar power we will see trawler that are battery/solar powered
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:00 PM   #15
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Mike:
Good points, one thing to get sorted out though is % coal. My trade journal although a few years old "closely" match current data.





According to originenergy.com.au the breakdown for AU electrical generation is:
  • Coal --- ----73%
  • Gas ---- ----13%
  • Hydro -- ----7%
  • Wind---- ----4%
  • Roof Solar --2%
  • Other -------1%
According to the AER government website there are similar numbers:
  • Black Coal ---- 55%
  • Brown Coal --- 22%
  • Gas ------------ 9%
  • Hydro ---------- 8%
  • Wind ------------5%
  • Other ------------!%
It would be interesting to assess the numbers. Possibly yours reflect
cars, trucks, buses ships etc.
I got mine from the Australian government.

https://www.industry.gov.au/Office-o...statistics.pdf
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:06 PM   #16
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In the US most Rail Roads are diesel electric,
Seen some Megayachts with that technology. Intriguing. Put the charging diesels anywhere that design and weight distribution requires..
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:14 PM   #17
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I know nothing when it comes to propulsion, but isnít one of the advantages of a diesel/electric system is the high torque available in an electric engine? I would think that would be one reason the railroads use them. For our boats, torque really isnít much of an issue.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:26 PM   #18
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I got mine from the Australian government.

https://www.industry.gov.au/Office-o...statistics.pdf
Table 4.1 in this report agrees with the fuel source electrical plant production data in my thread 13.

Your thread 9, based on Table 3.1, shows total AU energy consumption, which includes transportation. Transportation accounts for 40% of AU's energy consumption.

Interestingly (to me anyway) is that 90% of Australia's black coal (the good stuff) production is exported. This goes to China mainly where it is used in power plants and steel making.
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:34 PM   #19
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Ahhhhh. Thanks!
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Old 01-13-2018, 02:38 PM   #20
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The power generation landscape is changing rapidly. The state of South Australia was almost completely dependent on coal fired power stations 20 years ago. They are now all shut down. It is unlikely there will ever be another coal fired power station built in the state.

There are now 17 wind farms with a total capacity of 1789 MW. Another 26 wind farms are under construction or on the drawing board. This will increase the generation capacity by another 2554 MW.

The total capacity of gas fired generation is 2027 MW.

There is currently only one major solar power station operating with a capacity of 100 MW.

By far, the biggest generator of electricity in South Australia is rooftop solar. This is is owned by individual homeowners and businesses, and now accounts for 48% of south Australia power generation.

Is it all a fad? It's not looking that way. Perhaps fossils fuels were a fad, and they've now gone out of style.
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