When a Tesla trawler?

[sunchaser]

There is a major gas shortage in South Australia and the Eastern States, due to over-commitment of long term LNG sales to China, and and less than expected results in coal seam methane production.

btw - I may sound like an anti oil industry greenie, but I've worked in oil & gas exploration and production for 40 years.

North America is awash in natural gas. Prices are ridiculously low with many wells shut in. The ability to move LNG offshore is dependent upon long term contracts and LNG terminals on the Canadian and US west coasts. Alaska has been looking for locales that would enter into long term contracts to justify LNG shipments.

World politics and fanciful thoughts on non fossil fuel power generation are creating some area power shortages. Sounds like SA is one. China and Russia are feverishly working on gas lines to take excess Russian gas production into China. LNG shipments may well be short term because of this. China wants more gas to offset coal generation, especially from their plentiful brown coal mines.

Business expansion relies upon long term power commitments by suppliers. Without a viable plan B, SA will be in for an interesting ride. Hopefully transmission lines from elsewhere in Australia are in good shape. The grid is essential.

Glad to hear you're more than an arm waver Gaston.

 

[FF]

"The grid is essential."

The newest tech may be a very high voltage DC line buried , rather than more strung wires.

Tesla vs Edison the AC - DC controversy still goes on a century later!

 

[TDunn]

An electric trawler is possible now. You could quite easily build one using existing tech that could cruise for 12 hours at trawler speeds. However, I see several major downsides. First is the obvious one - cost. The hundred+ kilowatts of battery capacity required for a 35 footer would cost $50K-$100K. Second, the batteries would occupy significant space in the boat. Finally, the infrastructure for recharging large battery banks in a reasonable amount of time doesn't exist.

 

[Benthic2]

Where is the electric power coming from to charge the battery packs? could it be fron fossil fuel powered electric plants?

Did you read the article before you commented ?

It says right in the article:

.The containers are charged onshore by carbon-free energy provider Eneco, which sources solar power, windmills and renewables.”

I don't understand why this is such a controversial topic here. OK....so its not for everyone.....maybe its not for you...but the knee-jerk resistance and repetitive, mantra-like protestations that it will never work....despite steady progress being made, is almost funny.

 

[ctjstr]

only slightly off topic, but for any folks in the South Puget Sound area, you may have seen an all electric boat. A fellow converted his 26?' old wood Owens to all electric and you'll see him all over the place in the warmer months. Boat is easy to recognize because a lot of the painted surface is purple ( a big Washington Husky fan).
He converted it himself several years ago and repowered it with a new to him electric motor 3-4 years back. I have forgotten the details, but he has a large battery bank and runs some type of big electric motor. He says he cruises at hull speed and can go a day or more. Since he did all the work himself, he's fun to talk with and eager to tell his experiences. although not for me, I'll give him an A for effort.
toni

 

[sunchaser]

Did you read the article before you commented ?

It says right in the article:

.The containers are charged onshore by carbon-free energy provider Eneco, which sources solar power, windmills and renewables.”

.

Got it. Non fossil fuel charging occurs when the wind is blowing hard and it is daylight. Otherwise power from the grid or onboard IC engine kicks in. That makes sense to me and seems to have been the popular route for the past 120 years of electric motor driven boats.

 

[mramoo]

I think that the reason that renewable power sources are not in higher usage is because it would be upsetting the rice bowl of the fossil fuel providers. These high dollar contributors to the elected officials keep the lid on up and coming competitors.
I live in an area that requires a special (costly) permit to install renewable power source in my home.

 

[markpierce]

Where will all the additional electric generation come from when electric vehicles/vessels become de rigeuer? Current generation barely meets demand now.

 

[Benthic2]

current generation barely meets demand now....at peak times. During the overnight hours there is a lot of un-used capacity. This is why many utilities are moving to time of use rates, and many appliances are able to be set to run at a later time.

 

[Wxx3]

I know nothing when it comes to propulsion, but isn’t one of the advantages of a diesel/electric system is the high torque available in an electric engine? I would think that would be one reason the railroads use them. For our boats, torque really isn’t much of an issue.

Exactly.

 

[markpierce]

current generation barely meets demand now....at peak times. During the overnight hours there is a lot of un-used capacity. This is why many utilities are moving to time of use rates, and many appliances are able to be set to run at a later time.

Yeah, I'm sure running the washer and dryer at night will help sleep in my small condominium. Not used to cooking in the middle of the night on my electric stove either because that's when it's time to sleep.

 

[Wxx3]

I think that the reason that renewable power sources are not in higher usage is because it would be upsetting the rice bowl of the fossil fuel providers. These high dollar contributors to the elected officials keep the lid on up and coming competitors.
I live in an area that requires a special (costly) permit to install renewable power source in my home.

I think we should stop all subsidies to any power production process.
Let the market speak FINALLY.

 

[mramoo]

Dave, with the higher toque on the boat we could use a larger prop. Ether larger diameter or higher pitch, or both.

 

[markpierce]

I think we should stop all subsidies to any power production process.
Let the market speak FINALLY.

As well as stopping tax-payer subsidies for persons purchasing electric cars as well as giving them (in California at least) priority on special highway lanes.

 

[AusCan]

As well as stopping tax-payer subsidies for persons purchasing electric cars as well as giving them (in California at least) priority on special highway lanes.

We won't mention the billions of dollars in subsidies given to carmakers prior to electric cars.

 

[sunchaser]

current generation barely meets demand now....at peak times. .

For profit companies do not build excess long term peak capacity. That is why the power grid is important, to draw from other sources under contractual arrangements. Wheeling in additional power from afar has worked well for a very long time.

Throw in a major ice storm, hurricane, NIMBY pressure for no new plants or gas lines and things do indeed get complicated.

 

[PMF1984]

Well just to get back on track...

For trawlers with true displacement hulls, electric could work. Especially for those that tie up at a marina every night. There would have to be rewiring of marinas to deliver heavier loads. But when I think about the engine room and fuel tank space I now have, the conversion would not be limited due to space.

If I ran out of "gas" the genset would get me home.

That said, I don't see how this works for the faster boats. Too much power required.

 

[North Baltic sea]

Or solar, wind, nuclear, tide turbine, waste burning, methanization of organic waste, various fuelcells, dams, and so on.

L

I would not believe it any longer. RCCL commissioned two new ships Icon-class from Finland to become a Super Cell system, doing all the electricity while ship anchor, in addition to the ship's main engines, the Finnish Wärtsilä diesel LNG so slightly less emissions even if MR Trump loves them.

ABB to deliver first fuel cell system for Royal Caribbean – gCaptain

And fuel cell systems video
https://youtu.be/8GhyLD70wS0



And RCCl Icon class new build cruisers
Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. | RCL announces two new ships powered by LNG and fuel cells
NBs green Finnish

 

[North Baltic sea]

Running of batteries...same ABB companies system

Nbs

 

[Nomad Willy]

Who’s going to Alaska next summer w an electric boat?

 

[Pura Vida]

I keep watching and waiting! I think battery tec will have to have a breakthrough before we see it in common everyday use on boats.

 

[dhays]

Dave, with the higher toque on the boat we could use a larger prop. Ether larger diameter or higher pitch, or both.

So maybe a larger, steeper pitched prop turning more slowly...? There could be some efficiencies there I suppose.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Just that most boats don’t have room for a bigger prop.

And if you get higher aspect ratio blades you’ll need more of them and that is less efficient.

I put a 5 blade on my boat. High aspect ratio blades too. But so much total blade area I only got about 2200rpm on a 3000rpm engine. Put the three blade right back on.

 

[Benthic2]

....For profit companies do not build excess long term peak capacity......

They did, its just that they were built so long ago, we have exceeded that capacity. People use much more electricity than they used to, and there are more people than when the plants were built. The power companies are trying to survive without building new plants. So much so that they are trying to help their customers use less electricity. I can't think of any business that wants its customers to buy less of its product, except for Electric Companies.

 

[foggysail]

Electric boating does exist now, its just in the sailing community.


P.s. I find it interesting that "Tesla" is getting used as a generic term for an electric vehicle.

Maybe yes but Telsa did not invent the electric vehicle. Instead he with the help of environmentalists convinced (suckered) our government to shell out huge subsidies (paid by taxpayers) for his gamble. It remains to be seen if electric vehicles will ever be commercially viable. I remain a non-believer.

 

[AlaskaProf]

Let me establish up front, my belief in electric vehicles is profound. I have just acquired my third electric car, and each has been more sophisticated and had better range than its predecessor.

I have the advantage of cheap hydropower, a compact driving area, and a mild climate (resistance heater kills range!). There are many paths to the future, I.e. fuel cells, solar, better storage, etc being developed in parallel, but I am confident that at the point of consumption, you'll find an electric motor not much different than current technology.

Having said all that, small boats like ours seem like the least likely application with serious distribution issues, lack of regeneration (a big component of range in my cars), etc.

Best outcome: all of us can drive electric cars to create a surplus of hydrocarbon fuels for our boats.

 

[sunchaser]

They did, its just that they were built so long ago, we have exceeded that capacity. People use much more electricity than they used to, and there are more people than when the plants were built. The power companies are trying to survive without building new plants. So much so that they are trying to help their customers use less electricity. I can't think of any business that wants its customers to buy less of its product, except for Electric Companies.

Construction of new US gas fired power plants is booming. Gas prices are down, supply high. Shale oil production requires gas off taking making dozens of new gas plants very attractive. About 19 GW of new US gas plants have been built in last 3 years. Subscribe to Oil and Gas Journal like many do who want to keep informed.

 

[dhmeissner]

Early Electric River Boats - the source of power

19th century technologies rock.

 

[FF]

"Instead he with the help of environmentalists convinced (suckered) our government to shell out huge subsidies (paid by taxpayers) for his gamble."

Teslas cash (his cars are losers) actually comes from selling indulgences.

A fast car (gas hog ) is forced to pay a special fine to Unkle Sam.

The size of the fine can be offset by purchasing credits from a "less polluting " car maker.

As electric from nuke power plants is clean Tesla gets credits to sell with every car he builds at a loss.

Works for him , but the public is, as always the looser.

 

[Genecop]

https://www.trondheimtrawlers.com

These guys are trying to get someone to jump in for the first build..i emailed and asked them when Hull # 1 would be ready, they replied when I put a deposit of 20% down...