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Old 11-06-2015, 08:22 AM   #201
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IMO - Just about all posts (as long as they are not blatant lies) ever entered on TF... regarding fuel burn rates, high or low, costly or cheap, diesel or gas, IB/IO/OB/POD are exactly correct!


It's called different strokes for different folks.


Whatever boat you may have simply enjoy it or sell it!


Personally I feel: Due to classic physics surrounding boat designs, engines, fuels, and sea conditions that 2 to 3 gph at 6 to 7 knots is really OK. And, that 16 gph at 16 to 17 knots is really OK. And, and, and; that 75 gph at 50 knots is fine too!

That said - TD sure seems to be the winner for low fuel consumption at about 4 cups per hour doing 5.5 knots... with Eric's Willard a strong second.

Marin - Come on boat-buddy - share with us the real fuel use #'s on a boat your into overseas that you can't wrap your mind around. Quote: "The cruising boat we have in another part of the world burns more bloody fuel than I can get my head around."


Never know... You may out place B & B as the high-end hourly/mpg fuel user on TF!

Happy Fuel-Use Daze!! - Art
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:54 AM   #202
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Speed and fuel numbers are meaningless without hull length and weight . They could be from a 30' or a 50' boat.


IMO most people push too much water for best economy in a misguided belief in "hull speed"
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:20 AM   #203
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Marin, not sure why other TF members strive for efficiency bothers you so.
It doesn't. I know some people love to get all anal about stuff that actually doesn't matter much. Different strokes and all that.

I'm just saying that I happen to think that in the toy boat world, it's a meaningless exercise for most--- most, not all--- boaters because no matter what their fuel burn actually is, it's not going to change what they do or the boat they're doing it in.

I'd be interested to know if a boater here discovers that instead of burning the 3 gph they thought they were burning they're actually burning 3.8 gph they're going to immediately put their boat up for sale and buy a different one that actually burns 3 gph.

Or, if their current boat speed is what they want but they find out they're burning a bit more fuel at that speed than they thought they were, if they will slow down a knot or whatever to achieve the fuel burn they thought they had, or if they will simply keep cruising at the speed they want and use the extra fuel.

My guess is that most boaters will simply continue to do what they are doing now. Particularly since, as Psneeld noted, fuel prices have not continued to climb.

But if someone likes to get all wrapped around the axle over power curves and prop characteristics and drawing up charts and graphs and hold endless debates over fuel burn differences of a tenth of a gallon per hour, great. Have at it. But don't get all bent out of shape if someone else happens to say they think it's a pointless exercise.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:21 AM   #204
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bayview,
A very spot on post!
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:35 AM   #205
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Marin,
Perhaps many here that don't even know they have a green streak in them as a result of being significantly vogue. They feel like they are being seen as though they would if driving a 73 Cadilac .. gas guzzler. Most are big old heavy boats that would be thought of by most people to be burning oil excessively while most are conserving for the betterment of others. So the endless talk about fuel burn could be basically a guilty conscience .. probably unconscious.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:13 PM   #206
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Eric-- That's a fair point although when we decided to buy our first cruising boat fuel consumption was not anything we thought about. It just is what it is. We fly a plane that burns 23 gph for an airsped of 110 mph so we know there's always a price for playing the game.

I wonder if people who are super concerned about the use of natural resources and the environment would even consider getting into cruising in the kinds of boats most of us have? Would they even consider buying a big pickup and hauling around a big RV trailer at 8 to 10 mpg?

I can understand the desire for maximum efficiency among long-distance or full-time boaters because in that realm fuel becomes a larger component of their boating expenses. But I'm not sure if guilt plays a significant role in these endless discussions about eking the last drop of efficiency out of something which by it's very nature isn't very efficient to begin with. Maybe it does, I don't know.
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:05 PM   #207
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But I know it's hard for some to have the big boating overview...for some of us it's a major part of our lives...for others it's just something to do between other things.
Well put! The price of fuel, however, is not my biggest annual expense & those things I concentrate on do not relate to the gph of my boat.
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Old 11-06-2015, 01:17 PM   #208
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While the greatest portion of boating costs are fixed (insurance, taxes, routine maintenance, berthage, etcetera), fuel costs are a significant part of variable costs. Saving two or more gallons an hour can pay for a grand restaurant meal in little time.

Taking the boat out for four hours costs $100 to $130 difference in fuel consumption at 2 GPH versus 10.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:16 PM   #209
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Marin, not sure why other TF members strive for efficiency bothers you so. People boat for all sorts of different reasons and work at making their boat the best it can be for them. [/COLOR]
Ted
I don't either. We obviously don't sweat over fuel burn as we had never seen such numbers as in this thread. However, we find it interesting and we know there are some who pursue extremely low fuel burns as much for the pleasure it gives them than any money involved. There are some here who have a love for the concept of the most efficient, least costly, boat that could ever be built. Others of us pursue different things. But I find it interesting when someone is getting 22 nmpg. We average about 1.3% of that. I also find it interesting to see the speeds at which various people cruise. So far I'm seeing 85% cruise at 9 knots or less at least some of the time and 20% cruise at at least 17 knots or higher at least some of the time. We're a very diverse group. We all have a common enjoyment of boating, but we do it many different ways.
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Old 11-06-2015, 03:37 PM   #210
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Nordic 42, Cummins 6CTA 420 HP. La Conner to Wrangell 788NM, 111 engine hours, 278 gals, average speed 7.1 kts, fuel consumption 2.5 gph. We generally set the throttle at 1250-1300 rpm if weather, tides, and time weren't an issue. We ran at much higher throttle settings (1400-1600 rpm) on 7 of 16 days due to weather/tides. 1250 rpm produces about 7.5 kts in calm water. 2600 rpm (WOT) produces 12.5 kts.

It was nice to get to Chatham Channel in BC and decide to blow through at 2200 rpm for the 6 miles it took to get to Lagoon Cove at 4 rather than wait 3 hours on the tide. Happy hour was at 5.

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Old 11-06-2015, 04:19 PM   #211
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Different strokes for different folks.
OAL 57' ; beam 17 1/2' ; draft 8 1/2' ; displacement 150,000# with fuel & water
tanks extremely low (on travel lift for survey)
fuel cap. 1200 imp. gal. in the 2 engine room tanks (add weight)
water cap. 1,000 imp. gal. under fo'c'sle (add weight)
Reported fuel consumption by former owner: 4 1/2 gph @ 825 rpm @ 7 1/5 knots

Worried? Concerned? Nope

Some people like to compete for high to extreme mpg driving.

Some people will drive 5 or 10 blocks to the Seawalk (or gym) to go for a
period of exercise.
Wherever is their interest?

Ted
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Old 11-06-2015, 04:55 PM   #212
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Some people will drive 5 or 10 blocks to the Seawalk (or gym) to go for a
period of exercise.
Wherever is their interest?

Ted
Every time I ever walked by the New York Athletic Club there was someone who had just been working out inside or playing racquetball or something standing out front trying to flag a taxi.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:58 PM   #213
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Moonstruck is propped to turn 3050 rpm on each engine. At 2500 rpm she is making about 80% of top rpm, and making 25 knots by GPS. At 2600 rpm she is really on step at 27 knots at about 85% of top rpm. Fuel burn seems close to the same between 2200 and 2600 rpm in mpg.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:10 PM   #214
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The way we boat may not be just out of personal choice but personal situation.

For some of us, the boat is all we have and our lilfestyle, 365 days a year.

Others it is but a toy, something to spend a fraction of our time on..no less loved, but not our constant companion.

Those that can pick and choose because boating barely scratches their discretionary part of their budget great...for some of us...our boat is our home and our vacations and consume the vast majority of our budgets
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:37 PM   #215
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The way we boat may not be just out of personal choice but personal situation.

For some of us, the boat is all we have and our lilfestyle, 365 days a year.

Others it is but a toy, something to spend a fraction of our time on..no less loved, but not our constant companion.

Those that can pick and choose because boating barely scratches their discretionary part of their budget great...for some of us...our boat is our home and our vacations and consume the vast majority of our budgets
Absolutely. I see people argue over what is "cruising" and other labels, but we all boat and every one of us does it differently. Most of the people here actually use their boats, even if much of that use is just living on it. That's a great use of one. We spend 2/3 of our time on a boat. Others spend 100% and others 5%.

I'd say huge differences in how important it is to each of us. How would we feel if suddenly we had no boat. Is boating something we've done all our lives or something we just got into when we retired?

And you use the term "personal situation." That includes so much from financial to lifestyle to health to likes and dislikes. For those here who have more than one boat, the situation is likely different between the two. One may be their home or vacation home and the other a toy or a project. I'd even include ability to work on one's own boat as part of personal situation.

There are no two people here the same and to me that's a great part of boating. We all do it our own way, all differently, but we share a common love of the water. I can't even tell you why I love the water so. I just do. It's not even logical in many ways. I could cover more ground, cheaper, faster by land and plane. But to me they don't matter. I've been to NYC at least 30 times. Yet, I remember the first time arriving by water. I somehow saw it in a totally different light. In spite of the commercial traffic, it felt more peaceful and less rushed. I would rather spend the night on a boat docked there than in the most expensive hotel.

I don't even think you know how you're going to feel until you do it. We thought when we started that we'd occasionally want to get off the boat and spend the night in a hotel. It's never happened.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:23 PM   #216
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Well...then I find it curious when people make the statement that fuel is the cheapest part of boating...it just isn't true for some boaters and I couldnt begin to venture to say what percentage it is for what percentage of boaters.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:14 PM   #217
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It doesn't. I know some people love to get all anal about stuff that actually doesn't matter much. Different strokes and all that.

I'm just saying that I happen to think that in the toy boat world, it's a meaningless exercise for most--- most, not all--- boaters because no matter what their fuel burn actually is, it's not going to change what they do or the boat they're doing it in.
That may be true in the world of Marin, but not in the real world. National statistics bare out that recreational boating substantially decline when fuel hit $5 per gallon and significantly increased recently when fuel approached $2 per gallon.

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Old 11-06-2015, 10:19 PM   #218
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If we confine it to recreational cruising powerboats, I would hazard a guess than at least 50% of the boats in our almost 2,000 boat harbor never go anywhere at all or at best an occasional day cruise. And it may well be more than 50%.

Of the remainder I would guess than most of them are used a few weeks a year, or perhaps a longer vactation once or twice a year.

I suspect this ratio is echoed at most or all of the harbors in this region.

Which would mean that for all these boaters, fuel is indeed a very small part of the overall expense of owning a boat since all of them are still paying moorage, power, and insurance costs year round.

We use our boat year round but work or weather don't let us go far when we do go out, and we often use the boat simply by being on it over a weekend when the weather is too crappy to go out. So we are with the majority in this area--- the cost of fuel is but a drop in the bucket compared to the overall cost of owning the boat.

Sure, there are a few recreational power boaters who are on the move a lot year round up here but from what we've seen over the years there are very, very few of them. It very likely may be different along the eastern/southeastern seaboard.

in the overall scheme of things, very few recreational powerboaters live on their boats, and of that set, probably very few are constantly on the move.

So I still believe that for the vast majority of recreational powerboat owners, fuel is the--- or certainly one of the--- most insignificant or unimportant costs of owning their boats.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:20 PM   #219
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Very good point Ted,
At our Marina close to Marin's just a few years ago when gas was high only about 20% of the slips were rented. This summer they were full.

Marin,
For us we'd need run about 140 hrs a month to equal our moorage costs in fuel burn. Indeed .. fly stuff.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:35 PM   #220
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Marin, do you really think that the people who have the floating condos are the ones who engage in the discussions of cruising speed and fuel economy? Doubt you will find 10% of the people who posted in this thread that don't significantly use their boat. While fuel cost may not be a significant part of their budget currently, would guess that many maybe most would have the amount of boat use impacted by a return to $5 per gallon fuel.

Ted
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