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Old 12-31-2014, 01:00 AM   #141
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Bayliners are an entry level boat. They're generally great for the first owner who couldn't care less about maintenance, that's why they're generally crappy second hand. I've had personal experience ith a second hand Trophy that was decently maintained and it was a great boat (that sold for what ai paid for it).
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Old 12-31-2014, 02:31 AM   #142
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I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks
Having tad thru this thread, I think you answered your own question in your original post.

I'll add that almost all of my knowledge of Bayliners I've gleaned from this forum; that basically they are as good a boat as any for what they do.

And since your seem to have a well thought out rationale as to why they work for you, they will work for you.
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Old 12-31-2014, 07:12 AM   #143
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I crawled all over a 4788 yesterday and was pretty impressed with the layout, fit and finish and construction. This was a 2000 model and there were no leaks and the gel coat was still shiny. It had 3 sliding doors and all three took a bit of effort to open/close. They were designed and built to be light and this was definitely one of the liveliest boats in the marina, in about 10 kt winds. Electric and water runs were neat and with all valves accessible. The pilothouse was amazing for space, layout and visibility. The living space is well throughout with storage everywhere. This was offset by a very tight engine room.


In summary...I would not be scared of buying one of these. As in any boat, if the PO has taken care of it, they will be fine. Being fully cored means there is nothing to rot. I would probably want a ride in one to see how it docks and rides at anchor in wind. This is all of course, just my opinion.
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Old 01-01-2015, 05:37 PM   #144
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If you go for the 4788, join www.baylinerownersclub.org. Tons of knowledge there. The sticky doors are easily repaired. Engine room access is dramatically improved by adding a center access hatch in the salon floor. And so on. We love our 4788!
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Old 01-01-2015, 06:43 PM   #145
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If you go for the 4788, join Bayliner Owners Club - Home. Tons of knowledge there. The sticky doors are easily repaired. Engine room access is dramatically improved by adding a center access hatch in the salon floor. And so on. We love our 4788!
Yes, I cannot imagine the boat withouth the center engine access hatch! With the center hatch engine access is fantastic!
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Old 01-01-2015, 08:42 PM   #146
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Yes, I cannot imagine the boat withouth the center engine access hatch! With the center hatch engine access is fantastic!
Hmmm. That's interesting. Was this something that Bayliner eventually designed in on later boats?
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Old 01-01-2015, 09:27 PM   #147
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Hmmm. That's interesting. Was this something that Bayliner eventually designed in on later boats?
Short answer to thread title: Apparently, Not Much At All!!
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Old 01-01-2015, 11:12 PM   #148
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What year did the hatch become standard? Sorry for thread hijack.
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:19 AM   #149
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What year did the hatch become standard? Sorry for thread hijack.
Sometime after 2001

Almost every 4788 Ive been on had the hatch though. It's a very easy modification that changes the whole dynamic of the engine room
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Old 01-02-2015, 03:23 AM   #150
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Hmmm. That's interesting. Was this something that Bayliner eventually designed in on later boats?
Yes they did, I cannot imagine why they did not put it in earlier. The framing is all there already. All you have to do is cut the deck out, staple down the carpet and add a lip to the hole.

The hatch area is between the engines, about 2' wide x 4' long, or thereabouts. I could be off a little but it's a huge space between the engines.
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Old 01-02-2015, 07:19 AM   #151
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Yes they did, I cannot imagine why they did not put it in earlier. The framing is all there already. All you have to do is cut the deck out, staple down the carpet and add a lip to the hole.

The hatch area is between the engines, about 2' wide x 4' long, or thereabouts. I could be off a little but it's a huge space between the engines.
Kevin - pictures, please!

Some 45' and larger boats I have looked at for potential ownership were too often outfitted with just a crawl-in engine compartment, where cramped sitting or kneeling was all that one could do. And, no chance for natural light. With some effort, many could have had their salon sole "hatched" for much better ER access. In some it would be substantial flooring refit. One of my Tippy-Top criteria (I have a few - lol) for any boat I own is easy engine and other important equipment access. If I can't stand up straight, have really good light, and ample room to work at least relatively easily in a boat's ER... that boat will not be mine.

I find it hard to understand how boat designers/builders can feel it is OK to make working in ER a cramped, uncomfortable experience. Guess they figure not their problem... out of sight - out of mind! All they see/experience is everything new and in perfect order when the boats exit their shop. The minimal flooring design improvement and on-site build-out fabrication it would take to make for easy, open ER access should add a great selling point for dealers too. In addition to making life more generally enjoyable for owners who perform most of their own maintenance and simple repairs the ER “openness” feature would save money and make for better job follow-through when marine mechanics need to be employed.

Heck, if you can’t quickly get full, easy access to your engines and other important equipment… then, IMO, and for many reasons… a boat’s captain/crew is to a large extent hobbled; especially if an ER emergency arises under any sea conditions.

Have a Joyful New Year Weekend! We go to boat this morning...

Happy ER Daze! - Art
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Old 01-02-2015, 09:54 AM   #152
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I find it hard to understand how boat designers/builders can feel it is OK to make working in ER a cramped, uncomfortable experience. Guess they figure not their problem... out of sight - out of mind!
Funny story, and it's actually on topic to this thread!

When I first saw the Bayliner I bought at the boat show, I couldn't believe it was only 28-1/2'. It had stuff that not even some 32' boats had. So I figured there must be a catch. I refused to even let myself consider buying it until I saw the engine compartment.

The salesman had arranged the cockpit with table settings, decorations and brochures like you typically see at shows. I made him take the table out so I could lift the hatch, which messed up everything. This also meant keeping other boat show visitors off the boat while I checked it out.

He was NOT very happy with me at this point.

I got down next to the engine on each side. I made sure I could see and touch each spark plug. The oil filter was right there on top. The battery and water heater had easy access. The raw water drain system was handy. I could open and close all the seacocks without being a contortionist. The macerator pump was on the top of the waste tank, and easy to access if needed. There was good lighting all around. Overall, much better access to everything than I'd seen on any other boat in this class (including the comparable SeaRay across the show at twice the price.)

I came back with a down payment the next day, and never once regretted it in 10 years of ownership.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:03 AM   #153
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Once I asked a salesman at a boat show if he minded if I moved the carpet to look into the egine compartment...he responded "why?"...


I smiled and got off the boat...I guess we were both thankful I wasn't really buying that day.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:15 AM   #154
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The only 4788 I've been aboard was in a show in Sarasota with all the trimmings that Capt. Tom mentioned. I also asked to get into the engine room but it was just too much trouble to stop all the human traffic. Maybe if I was looking to buy that day, I'd have pressed the point. This stiff old frame has really had it with cramped ER's.
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Old 01-02-2015, 10:35 AM   #155
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Boats are designed by boat buyers. And a very average boat (like a Bayliner) would appeal to an average guy. Unique boats (like a Willard or Coot) are owned by unique guys. You need to like what other (many other) people like to get on w a Bayliner.

So perhaps a look at one's self in the act of choosing a boat has some merit .
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:20 AM   #156
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Manyboats, not sure I understand your post. Boats are designed by builders (or their designers) for potential buyers. The typical buyer of a used Bayliner motor yacht is usually pretty savvy and value-conscious. The typical first-time buyer of a new Bayliner motor yacht was inexperienced and value-conscious.

Inexperienced captains make rookie mistakes, like blowing through a no wake zone or passing on the wrong side. I've made nearly every dumb mistake a captain could make in the last five years boating in the PNW. But each time I have learned, and I have not repeated those mistakes. I believe Bayliner owners get bashed because so many of us were inexperienced and made our mistakes while at the helm of a Bayliner.

As I join other boaters on their boats, and host parties on my 4788, I compare my boat to others. There is a lot to like on a Bay, as others have noted. Well designed interiors, lots of storage, and brand name systems. Cummins, Hurth, Norcold, Nutone, Raytheon. A good friend has a 48' Navigator. We take turns hosting cocktail parties for 25-30 people. Because the cockpit on his boat is double the size of mine, my salon is about double the size of his. In the PNW this means more useable space more often. In California he would be able to open his rear salon doors and use the open cockpit as part of his party space.

My pilothouse is larger and (IMHO) better laid out than his. My flybridge dwarfs his, and with the dinghy in the water we have had thirty people on the flybridge without an issue. The woodwork on his boat has a higher quality of fit and finish. We both love our boats, and my Admiral has told me she would never trade boats with him even though his acquisition cost was over a hundred thousand dollars more than ours.

I covered more ground than I expected! Happy New Year everyone! Enjoy the water!
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Old 01-02-2015, 11:35 AM   #157
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Boats are designed by boat buyers. And a very average boat (like a Bayliner) would appeal to an average guy. Unique boats (like a Willard or Coot) are owned by unique guys. You need to like what other (many other) people like to get on w a Bayliner.

So perhaps a look at one's self in the act of choosing a boat has some merit .
Geez Eric, you got this whole thing going again.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:02 PM   #158
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Boats are designed by boat buyers. And a very average boat (like a Bayliner) would appeal to an average guy. Unique boats (like a Willard or Coot) are owned by unique guys. You need to like what other (many other) people like to get on w a Bayliner.

So perhaps a look at one's self in the act of choosing a boat has some merit .
So you're saying a boat like yours is owned by someone who somehow feels themselves superior to average Bayliner owners and needs a way to express that self anointed superiority?

I don't think that's what you intended to say but the way you used average above sure sounded condescending. Perhaps conservative or traditional was more what you meant. The word I would have used is mainstream. And I'm not sure going for a unique boat does necessarily make the person unique. Perhaps someone with unique tastes? Or simply someone who doesn't choose to follow the crowd.

I think boat buyers should consider every aspect and that does included the match to them and their family. While I think your boat is cute and interesting, for a family of four it doesn't come close to having the usable space of a Bayliner. That's not criticizing the choice. Just saying that people don't choose a Bayliner because they're average or because they're not unique. They choose because it fits their needs.

We're not unique because we also own a Riva. We just like more speed sometimes. But we'd never choose it for a family purpose over a boat with the space of a Bayliner.
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Old 01-02-2015, 01:41 PM   #159
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I am headed to Florida as I type this, to look at a couple of Bayliner 4788's, in Crystal River and Miami. (I am also going to get a free cup of Cuban coffee from Parks). The decision to sell our Jarvis Newman 46, has been a hard one and still may not happen, it's such a unique and forgiving boat and awesome for fishing. However, living aboard the last 6 months has shown we need a little more space or a home base. As I have sworn to never cut grass again, we will get another boat, probably a Bayliner. Can I afford a Defever, yes, a Nordhaven, no. Am I average...probably, is Eric average, probably, just owns a Willard.
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Old 01-02-2015, 02:12 PM   #160
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Dimer2, if you want any advice when looking at a 4788 send me a PM. Register (free) at Bayliner Owners Club - Home and search there for lots and lots of information. Common issues that can seem daunting (and helps your negotiation) but can be addressed readily are: davit does not operate smoothly (the synthetic bearings swell if lubricated with oil-based lubes instead of synthetic); pilothouse and cockpit doors do not roll smoothly; wallpaper has big bubbles (wallpaper supplier shipped an adhesive not suitable for marine environments - the wallpaper is high quality and can be reglued); no center access hatch (can be added); smelly central vac when used (replace the filter and the collection bag); missing NuTone blender (can be purchased online); some electric outlets don't work (GFIs can be hard to track down and reset). These are all easy repairs and well-documented.

If the interior teak has a funny yellow-green tinge, there were a couple of years where the teak varnish they used had a new UV protectant that ended up turning an odd color over time. It can be sanded off and re-finished. I don't consider that easy or inexpensive, though! But that's just me...

Have fun shopping!
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