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Old 12-30-2014, 12:42 PM   #121
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Interesting, now elitist Land Rover clubs have entered the tread.
No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:53 PM   #122
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[COLOR=black][FONT="Verdana"]I wonder if female boat owners refer to their floating luv affair as he or him.
Wifey B: Well, honestly I don't normally assign a sex to a boat and neither does my hubby. But if I did I'd refer to it as a female......hehe.....of course I also like females.
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:56 PM   #123
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No different than discussing custom built boats in a Bayliner thread I guess

Consumer: "Looking for a vehicle that will go good in snow, easy to maintain, and gets good fuel economy."

Elitist: "Yeah, you should look at a 30 year old Land Rover. They are the greatest thing ever made because that is what I drive. I outfitted it with a teak dash pad. It really ties the interior space together when heading to the golf course."

Consumer: "I was looking at a Subaru..."

Elitist: "Why would you want that when it isn't a Land Rover?"

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Old 12-30-2014, 12:57 PM   #124
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Nice one Wifey B!
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Old 12-30-2014, 12:59 PM   #125
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Six years ago when at a Seattle Boat show the new boat price of a large Meridian was way too close to that of the GBs and OAs thus the Bayliner/Meridian business model of the past faded in the target audience's mind.
That's why Brunswick dropped the Bayliner name and went to Meridian. However, I'd no longer connect today's Meridian to Bayliner. It's more like a small group of Sea Ray sedans. It's far away from it's heritage. Now that's not to say had Bayliner stayed alive it might not have strayed by now as well, nor is it to say there's anything wrong with Meridian. It's just the Bayliner connection is history.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:02 PM   #126
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No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
That shows what different worlds we live in. We have about as opposite to those as possible. But then that's what makes things interesting as we share a love of boats. And, then on boats we have our own preferences. I guess one thing I try to do is understand and appreciate the choices of others and the boats that are not the type I'm interested in. I love all boats, but then have my personal preferences for ownership.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:10 PM   #127
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I love all boats, but then have my personal preferences for ownership.
What political office did you say you were running?
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:29 PM   #128
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What political office did you say you were running?
Business experience...no politics. But I do believe the good boats far outnumber the bad ones. That said, there are some builders, some people in the business I would never buy anything from. If they were selling dollar bills for three quarters, I'd run. In new boat buying reputation, financial condition, and business ethics are very important to me.

And my political views would give the evening news more sound bites than they can handle. But I keep them to myself.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:38 PM   #129
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Business experience...no politics. But I do believe the good boats far outnumber the bad ones. That said, there are some builders, some people in the business I would never buy anything from. If they were selling dollar bills for three quarters, I'd run. In new boat buying reputation, financial condition, and business ethics are very important to me.

And my political views would give the evening news more sound bites than they can handle. But I keep them to myself.
Sorry, I was joking.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:47 PM   #130
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I love all boats....
I don't. When I walk through our large marina most of the boats there, power and sail, do not attract my attention at all other than my noting that they're physically there. This is why I would never own a Bayliner. Nothing to do with their quality or intelligence in their configuration or value for money.

I happen to think they are just about the least aesthetic, most boring-looking boats on the planet. The only model of Bayliner that I feel is somewhat aesthetically interesting is the old early 80s 3888. But the rest of them, from the low 20s on up through the high 40s I find to be aesthetic yawns.

To us, if a boat doesn't look good (to our sense of aesthetics) we have no interest in owning or operating it.

Which to us rules out almost all the production boats. Even Grand Banks are skating on thin ice with us aesthetically. Price has nothing to do with this. As a group, the most butt-ugly boats in our marina we think are the Nordhavns. I see a Nordhavn and I wonder what the hell the naval architect was thinking when he drew the lines. Or perhaps he didn't draw the lines and left it to the plant custodial staff to come up with them after he'd designed the basic boat. (A lot of cars are like this. Designer draws the front and the middle and then goes to lunch and leaves it to the janitor to do the back end).

The number of production boats that we like in terms of their aesthetics is tiny. And a boat we don't like in terms of its looks are boats that we have virtually no interest in at all.

Which is why when someone comes up and wants to talk to us about their Carver or something I politely excuse myself by saying I have to go see a man about a horse.
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Old 12-30-2014, 01:47 PM   #131
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I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.

Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:03 PM   #132
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Sorry, I was joking.
I know
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:06 PM   #133
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I don't. When I walk through our large marina most of the boats there, power and sail, do not attract my attention at all other than my noting that they're physically there. This is why I would never own a Bayliner. Nothing to do with their quality or intelligence in their configuration or value for money.

I happen to think they are just about the least aesthetic, most boring-looking boats on the planet. The only model of Bayliner that I feel is somewhat aesthetically interesting is the old early 80s 3888. But the rest of them, from the low 20s on up through the high 40s I find to be aesthetic yawns.

To us, if a boat doesn't look good (to our sense of aesthetics) we have no interest in owning or operating it.

Which to us rules out almost all the production boats. Even Grand Banks are skating on thin ice with us aesthetically. Price has nothing to do with this. As a group, the most butt-ugly boats in our marina we think are the Nordhavns. I see a Nordhavn and I wonder what the hell the naval architect was thinking when he drew the lines. Or perhaps he didn't draw the lines and left it to the plant custodial staff to come up with them after he'd designed the basic boat. (A lot of cars are like this. Designer draws the front and the middle and then goes to lunch and leaves it to the janitor to do the back end).

The number of production boats that we like in terms of their aesthetics is tiny. And a boat we don't like in terms of its looks are boats that we have virtually no interest in at all.

Which is why when someone comes up and wants to talk to us about their Carver or something I politely excuse myself by saying I have to go see a man about a horse.
We figure their aesthetics appeal to the owner even if not our choice. As to Nordhavn, we put them in the "so ugly, they're cute" grouping.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:09 PM   #134
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No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
I miss not having my unique cult vehicles (there have been so many) to celebrate my (whatever was going on with me at the time). I bought an Isuzu Trooper in 1988 and I never modified it. Something in me that appreciated the vehicle the way it was kept me from personalizing it. Now, I've got a Manatee and I'm personalizing it all over the place. When I'm satisfied that I've done enough struggling and paying and transforming, I will likely buy the best Bayliner 45 or 4788 I can find and be satisfied with it the way it is.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:10 PM   #135
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I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.

Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
Bayliner is thousands, while others are hundreds.

Bayliner did the same thing on small runabouts. They reached an audience that couldn't afford Glastron, Larson, and Sea Ray. It changed the entire boating landscape. About like what Vizio did for televisions. I'm for anything that gets people into a boat. (Assuming a safe boat). Right now runabout builders are trying to do that with outboards. As to cruisers, the boat today that gets people into their first cruiser is Sea Ray. No one else comes close to their volume in the 30'-60' range.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:13 PM   #136
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We figure their aesthetics appeal to the owner even if not our choice..
Absolutely. Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure the few production boat designs I like are not liked by plenty of other folks. Obviously there are plenty of people out there who like the look of Bayliners or they would not have sold as many as they did, price point or no price point.
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:24 PM   #137
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Yo - Folks!

Just being able to want to be posting on TF, especially when owning or looking for a boat, is pretty darn elitist... in and of itself!


With 7 + Billion humans alive and under two hundred usually on TF at any given time; well - I rest my case!
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:39 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by River Cruiser
I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.

Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617



Quote:
Originally Posted by BandB View Post
Bayliner is thousands, while others are hundreds.

Bayliner did the same thing on small runabouts. They reached an audience that couldn't afford Glastron, Larson, and Sea Ray. It changed the entire boating landscape. About like what Vizio did for televisions. I'm for anything that gets people into a boat. (Assuming a safe boat). Right now runabout builders are trying to do that with outboards. As to cruisers, the boat today that gets people into their first cruiser is Sea Ray. No one else comes close to their volume in the 30'-60' range.
Tollycraft turned out over 6,500 real good boats; outboards to 65' yachts, with many sizes in between, before going belly-up via bad boat-market times as well as poor financial management by a buyer of the company. Mr. Tolly had simply become too old to continue.

I can't help but wonder the number of boats Chris Craft built during its prime-time pleasure boat decades. Growing up in New England Chris Craft were everywhere. My family spent years cruising in a 1948 Chris Craft Express. I still see lots of all ages Chris Craft while on the water, visiting marinas, and looking on YW or CL. When I was young Chris Craft seemed by far and away the most prolific boat builder... At least that's what I think!
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Old 12-30-2014, 02:44 PM   #139
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I don't think the OP's question had anything to do with looks or preference but rather build quality and reliability.


Not sure why build numbers and personal appeal enter the thread.
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Old 12-30-2014, 03:21 PM   #140
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Absolutely. Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure the few production boat designs I like are not liked by plenty of other folks. Obviously there are plenty of people out there who like the look of Bayliners or they would not have sold as many as they did, price point or no price point.
In a lot of ways I agree. Look at all the new yachts coming out today with sloped back windows and the flybridge sits over the transom/swim platform. Euopean styling----yuc....

At least the old BLs still look good.....
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