No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
Whats wrong with Bayliners?
- Thread starter bcarli
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If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
Skinny
Senior Member
No different than discussing custom built boats in a Bayliner thread I guess
Consumer: "Looking for a vehicle that will go good in snow, easy to maintain, and gets good fuel economy."
Elitist: "Yeah, you should look at a 30 year old Land Rover. They are the greatest thing ever made because that is what I drive. I outfitted it with a teak dash pad. It really ties the interior space together when heading to the golf course."
Consumer: "I was looking at a Subaru..."
Elitist: "Why would you want that when it isn't a Land Rover?"
Consumer: "Looking for a vehicle that will go good in snow, easy to maintain, and gets good fuel economy."
Elitist: "Yeah, you should look at a 30 year old Land Rover. They are the greatest thing ever made because that is what I drive. I outfitted it with a teak dash pad. It really ties the interior space together when heading to the golf course."
Consumer: "I was looking at a Subaru..."
Elitist: "Why would you want that when it isn't a Land Rover?"
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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Nice one Wifey B!
That's why Brunswick dropped the Bayliner name and went to Meridian. However, I'd no longer connect today's Meridian to Bayliner. It's more like a small group of Sea Ray sedans. It's far away from it's heritage. Now that's not to say had Bayliner stayed alive it might not have strayed by now as well, nor is it to say there's anything wrong with Meridian. It's just the Bayliner connection is history.
No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
That shows what different worlds we live in. We have about as opposite to those as possible. But then that's what makes things interesting as we share a love of boats. And, then on boats we have our own preferences. I guess one thing I try to do is understand and appreciate the choices of others and the boats that are not the type I'm interested in. I love all boats, but then have my personal preferences for ownership.
Donsan
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What political office did you say you were running?
Business experience...no politics. But I do believe the good boats far outnumber the bad ones. That said, there are some builders, some people in the business I would never buy anything from. If they were selling dollar bills for three quarters, I'd run. In new boat buying reputation, financial condition, and business ethics are very important to me.
And my political views would give the evening news more sound bites than they can handle. But I keep them to myself.
Donsan
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Sorry, I was joking.
I don't. When I walk through our large marina most of the boats there, power and sail, do not attract my attention at all other than my noting that they're physically there. This is why I would never own a Bayliner. Nothing to do with their quality or intelligence in their configuration or value for money.
I happen to think they are just about the least aesthetic, most boring-looking boats on the planet. The only model of Bayliner that I feel is somewhat aesthetically interesting is the old early 80s 3888. But the rest of them, from the low 20s on up through the high 40s I find to be aesthetic yawns.
To us, if a boat doesn't look good (to our sense of aesthetics) we have no interest in owning or operating it.
Which to us rules out almost all the production boats. Even Grand Banks are skating on thin ice with us aesthetically. Price has nothing to do with this. As a group, the most butt-ugly boats in our marina we think are the Nordhavns. I see a Nordhavn and I wonder what the hell the naval architect was thinking when he drew the lines. Or perhaps he didn't draw the lines and left it to the plant custodial staff to come up with them after he'd designed the basic boat. (A lot of cars are like this. Designer draws the front and the middle and then goes to lunch and leaves it to the janitor to do the back end).
The number of production boats that we like in terms of their aesthetics is tiny. And a boat we don't like in terms of its looks are boats that we have virtually no interest in at all.
Which is why when someone comes up and wants to talk to us about their Carver or something I politely excuse myself by saying I have to go see a man about a horse.
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River Cruiser
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I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.
Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
I know
I don't. When I walk through our large marina most of the boats there, power and sail, do not attract my attention at all other than my noting that they're physically there. This is why I would never own a Bayliner. Nothing to do with their quality or intelligence in their configuration or value for money.
I happen to think they are just about the least aesthetic, most boring-looking boats on the planet. The only model of Bayliner that I feel is somewhat aesthetically interesting is the old early 80s 3888. But the rest of them, from the low 20s on up through the high 40s I find to be aesthetic yawns.
To us, if a boat doesn't look good (to our sense of aesthetics) we have no interest in owning or operating it.
Which to us rules out almost all the production boats. Even Grand Banks are skating on thin ice with us aesthetically. Price has nothing to do with this. As a group, the most butt-ugly boats in our marina we think are the Nordhavns. I see a Nordhavn and I wonder what the hell the naval architect was thinking when he drew the lines. Or perhaps he didn't draw the lines and left it to the plant custodial staff to come up with them after he'd designed the basic boat. (A lot of cars are like this. Designer draws the front and the middle and then goes to lunch and leaves it to the janitor to do the back end).
The number of production boats that we like in terms of their aesthetics is tiny. And a boat we don't like in terms of its looks are boats that we have virtually no interest in at all.
Which is why when someone comes up and wants to talk to us about their Carver or something I politely excuse myself by saying I have to go see a man about a horse.
We figure their aesthetics appeal to the owner even if not our choice. As to Nordhavn, we put them in the "so ugly, they're cute" grouping.
healhustler
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No worries. We have both a Land Rover and a Range Rover but I'm not going to talk about them.
I miss not having my unique cult vehicles (there have been so many) to celebrate my (whatever was going on with me at the time). I bought an Isuzu Trooper in 1988 and I never modified it. Something in me that appreciated the vehicle the way it was kept me from personalizing it. Now, I've got a Manatee and I'm personalizing it all over the place. When I'm satisfied that I've done enough struggling and paying and transforming, I will likely buy the best Bayliner 45 or 4788 I can find and be satisfied with it the way it is.
Bayliner is thousands, while others are hundreds.
Bayliner did the same thing on small runabouts. They reached an audience that couldn't afford Glastron, Larson, and Sea Ray. It changed the entire boating landscape. About like what Vizio did for televisions. I'm for anything that gets people into a boat. (Assuming a safe boat). Right now runabout builders are trying to do that with outboards. As to cruisers, the boat today that gets people into their first cruiser is Sea Ray. No one else comes close to their volume in the 30'-60' range.
Absolutely. Aesthetics are in the eye of the beholder. I'm sure the few production boat designs I like are not liked by plenty of other folks. Obviously there are plenty of people out there who like the look of Bayliners or they would not have sold as many as they did, price point or no price point.
Yo - Folks!
Just being able to want to be posting on TF, especially when owning or looking for a boat, is pretty darn elitist... in and of itself!
With 7 + Billion humans alive and under two hundred usually on TF at any given time; well - I rest my case!
Just being able to want to be posting on TF, especially when owning or looking for a boat, is pretty darn elitist... in and of itself!
With 7 + Billion humans alive and under two hundred usually on TF at any given time; well - I rest my case!
Quote:
Originally Posted by River Cruiser
I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.
Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
Tollycraft turned out over 6,500 real good boats; outboards to 65' yachts, with many sizes in between, before going belly-up via bad boat-market times as well as poor financial management by a buyer of the company. Mr. Tolly had simply become too old to continue.
I can't help but wonder the number of boats Chris Craft built during its prime-time pleasure boat decades. Growing up in New England Chris Craft were everywhere. My family spent years cruising in a 1948 Chris Craft Express. I still see lots of all ages Chris Craft while on the water, visiting marinas, and looking on YW or CL. When I was young Chris Craft seemed by far and away the most prolific boat builder... At least that's what I think!
Originally Posted by River Cruiser
I had a broker tell me several years ago that he loved Bayliner because they put more people on the water than any other builder. I looked around and found these numbers and the 47xx isn't included. I doubt any other builder comes close to building a similar sized boats anywhere near these production totals.
Total Production per Bayliner:
32xx---3200
38xx---2100
45xx---617
Tollycraft turned out over 6,500 real good boats; outboards to 65' yachts, with many sizes in between, before going belly-up via bad boat-market times as well as poor financial management by a buyer of the company. Mr. Tolly had simply become too old to continue.
I can't help but wonder the number of boats Chris Craft built during its prime-time pleasure boat decades. Growing up in New England Chris Craft were everywhere. My family spent years cruising in a 1948 Chris Craft Express. I still see lots of all ages Chris Craft while on the water, visiting marinas, and looking on YW or CL. When I was young Chris Craft seemed by far and away the most prolific boat builder... At least that's what I think!
Skinny
Senior Member
I don't think the OP's question had anything to do with looks or preference but rather build quality and reliability.
Not sure why build numbers and personal appeal enter the thread.
Not sure why build numbers and personal appeal enter the thread.
Alaskan Sea-Duction
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In a lot of ways I agree. Look at all the new yachts coming out today with sloped back windows and the flybridge sits over the transom/swim platform. Euopean styling----yuc....
At least the old BLs still look good.....
jeffnick
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Bayliners are an entry level boat. They're generally great for the first owner who couldn't care less about maintenance, that's why they're generally crappy second hand. I've had personal experience ith a second hand Trophy that was decently maintained and it was a great boat (that sold for what ai paid for it).
Wxx3
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Having tad thru this thread, I think you answered your own question in your original post.
I'll add that almost all of my knowledge of Bayliners I've gleaned from this forum; that basically they are as good a boat as any for what they do.
And since your seem to have a well thought out rationale as to why they work for you, they will work for you.
dimer2
Moderator Emeritus
I crawled all over a 4788 yesterday and was pretty impressed with the layout, fit and finish and construction. This was a 2000 model and there were no leaks and the gel coat was still shiny. It had 3 sliding doors and all three took a bit of effort to open/close. They were designed and built to be light and this was definitely one of the liveliest boats in the marina, in about 10 kt winds. Electric and water runs were neat and with all valves accessible. The pilothouse was amazing for space, layout and visibility. The living space is well throughout with storage everywhere. This was offset by a very tight engine room.
In summary...I would not be scared of buying one of these. As in any boat, if the PO has taken care of it, they will be fine. Being fully cored means there is nothing to rot. I would probably want a ride in one to see how it docks and rides at anchor in wind. This is all of course, just my opinion.
In summary...I would not be scared of buying one of these. As in any boat, if the PO has taken care of it, they will be fine. Being fully cored means there is nothing to rot. I would probably want a ride in one to see how it docks and rides at anchor in wind. This is all of course, just my opinion.
Robster_in_edmonds
Senior Member
If you go for the 4788, join www.baylinerownersclub.org. Tons of knowledge there. The sticky doors are easily repaired. Engine room access is dramatically improved by adding a center access hatch in the salon floor. And so on. We love our 4788!
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, I cannot imagine the boat withouth the center engine access hatch! With the center hatch engine access is fantastic!
healhustler
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Hmmm. That's interesting. Was this something that Bayliner eventually designed in on later boats?
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Sometime after 2001
Almost every 4788 Ive been on had the hatch though. It's a very easy modification that changes the whole dynamic of the engine room
ksanders
Moderator Emeritus
Yes they did, I cannot imagine why they did not put it in earlier. The framing is all there already. All you have to do is cut the deck out, staple down the carpet and add a lip to the hole.
The hatch area is between the engines, about 2' wide x 4' long, or thereabouts. I could be off a little but it's a huge space between the engines.
