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Old 12-26-2014, 01:29 PM   #21
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Hi Everyone,
Thank you all for your input...I have felt that there is nothing wrong with a Bayliner but I wanted to get other peoples thoughts. I have no problem asking what might consider a "dumb question"...It's not dumb to me. Been around boats for 35 years, sailed more then a few oceans, now looking at powerboats....
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Old 12-26-2014, 01:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by bcarli View Post
I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad
Not asked but the real questions as I see it are:
As compared to what?
What budget and price range?
Old, new or middle aged?

First off, of course a Bayliner can happily cruise in the PNW. They were designed for that purpose and with lots of satisfied users.

But the question cannot be legitimately answered unless comparing to similar designs and price ranges such as Carver, SeaRay or Cruisers. I like the lower helm station much better on the Bayliners than the other three but the Carver fly bridge seems better laid out. ER access on all is about the same. Mechanical layouts seem similar with access to some areas equally challenged. In the PNW the selection of Bayliners is much better as is price point. Bayliner seems to have done a better job of engine selection as compared to SeaRay. Beyond these very general musings, a detailed look at each vessel being considered is required to see if the owners kept up with maintenance and upgrades - all important when considering older vessels.

But to compare a light planing vessel like a Bayliner to a displacement vessel like a Nordhavn, Krogen or DeFever is difficult at best. Nor can a more expensive build SD vessel like a Fleming or GB be realistically compared to Bayliner - they are different boats for a different audience.

A trip to the the upcoming Seattle Boat Show may help answer your questions. what kind of vessels have you had in the past?
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Old 12-26-2014, 01:35 PM   #23
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Read Dave Pascoe reviews.
Well, problem is that David Pascoe never met a boat he liked. He wrote an essay on blisters on Carvers a long time ago and essentially pronounced them junk. Every time somebody asks about Carver quality now somebody posts a link to that Pascoe article - and yet my 1983 32-footer has zero blisters and a rock solid hull and deck to this day, and there are lots and lots of those 3207's and others still going strong after all these years. Oh, and we own a Bayliner runabout too - paid peanuts for it and it's still looking and running well. You can always find somebody somewhere who will say your boat is junk.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by bcarli View Post
I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks
To answer your subject question, nothing. Take your boat on adventures and have fun. Nobody is holding a gun to our heads and forcing us to enjoy boating. When the fun stops, sell your boat and get into something else. It's that simple.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #25
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I had an old 2452 Bayliner that had a hull sprayed out lof a.shotgun. It did the job well for its price range. These days, I wouldn't hesitate to move into a modern Bayljner. They have great layouts, great usage of space, good ideas and are good overall values IMHO. They are not your Father's Bayliner, not that there was anything wrong with the. Bayliner fun per dollar ratio of old.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:25 PM   #26
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Rumors of Bayliner quality or lack thereof don't come out of thin air. The day they nameplated 'Bayliner' on cheap entry level runabouts is the day their reputation suffered. That was their choice. They have put more people on the water than any other boat builder I can think of. That is to their credit and their business model has endured when many boat builders have fallen to the wayside. But to this day if I tell my boat buddies that I'm liking a bayliner 45 or 48 they will roll their eyes. Their first thought is the cheap runabouts. That may be unfair but it is a market perception that obviously exists. Bayliners fault. Should have renamed their entry level boats. I don't think their motor yachts deserve the stigma.
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Old 12-26-2014, 02:53 PM   #27
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I don't know. We have a 1995 19' Capri and it doesn't feel like a junky boat to me. It won't survive a nuclear war but it's a decent boat. Maybe I missed the junk years or junk models. I agree with some of the other posters. I think a good deal of the Bayliner-is-junk attitude comes from a combination of snobbery and the fact that a lot of Bayliner owners are indeed novices or casual boaters who can't or don't want to maintain their boats well or beat them like rented mules.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:15 PM   #28
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Bayliners, do not use a well known boat architect to design their boats, they are designed by an in-house committee.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:35 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcarli View Post
I know I will get a lot of ____ for even posting this question..but are Bayliners that bad...For a boat to go cruising in the San Juans, Gulf Islands of British Columbia, or maybe even Alaska I don't see why they are held in such low regard. There are some things that I like about them, no teak outside, nice lines ( looking at the 38 foot), Hino diesels which don't seem to be a bad motor... PRICE....I could spend half the cost of a more popular trawler, buy a Bayliner and have the extra money to spend cruising for a few years......
It seems to me that many first time boat buyers buy Bayliners and that maybe Bayliners reputations suffers more from their owner's then from the quality (or lack of quality) in the boats themselves

p.s. lets be nice when answering this question.....
thanks
a freind of mine had one a 38 ft and it was great it was one of the best live aboard boats around the lay out was greatit it had electric heat, ac, and a heating sys from the engines when you were running and hinos engines. the only proplen he had was the hirth trannys not so good,we changed them over to velvet drive. he made many trips all over the bahamas
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:36 PM   #30
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Bayliners, do not use a well known boat architect to design their boats, they are designed by an in-house committee.
Versus what other major production yacht builders other than Hatteras? And that was all done before Bayliner Motoryachts came into existence. Or do you prefer a name designer who's boat designs were built in Taiwan by dozens of different "yards" who just rolled the moulds between them with the resulting mysteries of the builds? Bayliner was extremely high tech and bought engines and components by the tens of thousands therefore paid less than other builders, resulting in them being able to sell them for less than their competition. It's truly that simple.
When you talk major American builders, many such as Columbia, Chris Craft, and even smaller outfits like Tollycraft and Pearson had boats from small to large and of course the small boats cost less than the top of the line larger ones. Its why I use General Motors as an analogy to the Bayliners-as they built econo boxes and also Cadillacs and Corvettes. You get what you pay for, but to diss the top of the line because of rumors of the quality build of the smallest-makes one look like a pendaeo!
If the poster really lives in Friday Harbor then look out the frigging window, and go talk to the owners.
I like the big Bayliners because they always pass surveys, something that many so called quality boats frequently flunk in expensive spectacular ways. I was the east coast dealer for Lien Hwa yachts (Little Harbor, Hartman Palmer, McKinna, some Presidents, some big Marine Traders, etc)once upon a time, and that yard IS the "GM of Taiwan" and at least made attempts at quality control, but the British Surveyor on staff would report that the workers would watch him like a hawk, and many times he surprised them coming out of the bathroom quicker than they expected, and caught them switching out cheaper materials for what was ordered.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:45 PM   #31
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To be fair Kthoennes, I think the worst years for small Bayliner runabouts was the '80's. Picture those cheap plastic windsheids, paper thin gelcoat and cheap vinyl . Bayliner made no bones about it nor did their salesmen. It is what it is and it is priced accordingly. It made a lot of folks happy. But their reputation suffered because they threw a price point boat on the market. And everybody knew it. And these thoughts linger.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:30 PM   #32
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Bayliner and Sea Ray manufacturers (among others) came to Tollycraft's founder/owner/President back in the 70's / 80's, looking to join forces; i.e. Robert Merland Tollefson... "Mr. Tolly" himself.

Robert thought deeply and had the best accountants look through the financial books of those asking him to "come-aboard" for massive manufacturing expansion. Mr. Tolly, a great boat designer himself, had renowned marine craft architect Monk Sr. do most hulls, Monk Jr. was in it too. Tolly designed superstructures and interiors.

Mr. Tolly was producing some of the highest quality boats available. But… he kept his books in order and was not into loaned financial leverage. The others were… so, Tolly turned them all down and stayed on his path of build to capital available.

When Mr. Tolly became too old: Tollycraft built 6,500 or more very nice craft. It was sold to an investment group that too soon put the company on the financial rocks and it eventually sunk (i.e. closed its doors in receivership).

The rest is history. Tollycraft boats are well-built classics that if cared for will last a loooooog time. But, Tollycraft is a dead Company. The others took different path. Their boats if cared for will also have long lives. And, they are still very alive companies.

That’s the answer… What’s the question?

Another part of the answer is that no matter the used boat (unless the boat’s build-out or design was bunk from the get go) it all has to do with how well the craft was looked after and cared for by previous owner(s).
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:46 PM   #33
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Whats wrong with Bayliners?

We've had 3 Bayliners - 2455 express, 3270 sedan bridge and the 3870 we have now. All have been very well laid out interiors with more useable space than other similar sized boats. The only problem on any of them was a grenaded lower unit on the 2455 lower unit (OMC cobra) There are 4 larger bays in the marina 2665, 3870, 3988 and 5788 in 5 years they've only had normal maintenance, no breakdowns, the 3 larger ones are diesel power 2 Hinos and Mans in the 57. The 26 got towed in once because the safety kill lanyard had pulled loose just enough it wouldn't start. I would love a 45 or 47 for the pilothouse but not enough to spend the $$$ to wash a bigger boat.
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:08 PM   #34
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A lot of the Bayliner bashing and other boat brand bad mouthing can be traced back to boat salesmen and owner personal preference. You know. .. If you're selling or a proud owner of Chevrolets, then Ford, Chrysler, imports, etc. are junk and that sales pitch rhetoric rubs off on the buyers to where they believe and repeat it too!!


I heard a lot of that when I was boat shopping back in the 70's, when even GB and other non US built boats were branded sub standard because of what the sales person might say.

We had a 23' Bayliner Skagit Offshore and it was a wonderful fishing machine and great rough water boat. We often would run around the west side of Vancouver Island to fish salmon and halibut and if you think that isn't open ocean. . . try it sometime!!

ps: They're right about Fords, Chevrolets and imports. . . It's Mopar or no car all the way!!
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:24 PM   #35
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I've chartered twice in my life, both times were out of Orcas Island in the San Juans, and both times from the same boat owner.

The first was a GB 32. It was my first "big boat" (I owned a 20' bowrider) and my wife and I had a great time on board.

The second was a Bayliner 4588 MY. We chartered with another couple and all of us agreed the boat was perfect. It was quiet, comfortable, spacious and economical to cruise in.

My only other experience on a Bayliner was in the summer of 2013 when I helped a guy take a 5788 from Seattle to Stockton. The boat was nice, spacious and comfortable.

I did notice that it seemed to ride a bit rougher than my boat does in about a 5' and higher sea. I asked the owner what the dry weight was and the number he gave me was about 10,000 pounds lighter than my 550 Sedan Bridge. I suspect that was part of the reason it seemed to ride more like a cork, but I suspect another part might have been hull design.

If I were in the market now for a smaller boat than what I have I would not overlook the Bayliners.
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Old 12-26-2014, 06:30 PM   #36
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Those who do not like Bayliners for a variety of reasons have learned to keep their opinions to themselves on an open forum. Lest the very large population of Bayliner owners go nuts. Same as bashing any other boat brand, just good manners.

So to the OP, don't believe the extremes as to Bayliner likes or dislikes, look at lots of boats and form your opinion.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:00 PM   #37
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We purchased a used Bayliner 2859 a few years before Hurricane Katrina. She sported an "Alaskan Bulkhead". I felt it was a very well built boat- though a bit shy on the engine accessibility and handling on plane. Here's a shot of me prepping her for Katrina. I musta Click image for larger version

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Old 12-26-2014, 07:12 PM   #38
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I believe the Searay owners do the majority of Bayliner bashing. Little do most of them know, bayliner and searay are owned by Brunswick. Since the recession began back in 08 i believe many of them are made in the same factories in Tennessee. I think many manufacturers have had design issues over the years, the question is how did they respond to make good on them. Searay was not good at all in this area.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:13 PM   #39
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However one needs to consider that mass produced products have built in advantages and disadvantages just because they are mass produced. A one-off lobsterboat yacht built by a small yard in Maine will pay considerably more for much of the materials used and thus have a higher price. Buyers seeing the low price of mass produced boat like Bayliner may think the Bayliner is a cheap boat made haphazardly w cheap materials. The opposite may be true. But to sell more boats by keeping the price low corners may be cut and inferior materials and design may be used.

The Bayliner boat probably does/did both. Corners are probably cut to save money and in some places better materials may be used. So reality is probably a wash and the Bayliner is probably an average boat in many ways, a better boat in some ways and an inferior boat in some ways.

But who will know until opinions and dock talk are replaced w facts and specifics.
Well said. Let me add one slightly different perspective that I'd never have thought of before I bought my Bayliner.

I've always preferred the look of a good, salty down-east boat, or any other "working" boat lines. I think wood looks great, and I'm not impressed by shiny plastic Clorox bottles. I like custom boats.

But here's the thing. I discovered that a LOT of engineering went into the design of my Bayliner. Every model year they made minor changes. New cup holders. Extending the space under a seat to hold a cooler. Replacing the helm seat on a pole with a molded-in platform, producing a huge stowage compartment under it. All these design features, large and small - all these little conveniences - add up.

The truth is, for all their beauty, custom boats just don't have this level of engineering for every small detail.
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Old 12-26-2014, 07:19 PM   #40
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Honestly anything said about Bayliners covers so many years and so many models, it don't mean Jack! Anyone commenting has a model, year, or design that they liked or didn't, and holy cow did Bayliner have a lot of designs! Most were poorly suited for saltwater, and sold in lake country. Of course some people put them in the salt, things rusted and decayed, and they took them out in conditions they shouldn't have. Bayliner Corporation changed the engine and outdrive combinations pretty much contingent on low bid, and some were problematic. My Volvo was trouble free, probably the best outdrive, but they priced themselves out of Bayliners, with OMC making a lot of people unhappy. Two years later Mercruiser made a lot of people happy. I have no idea if Bayliner learned anything. They cored their small boats first, had very efficient and light hulls, and made excellent use of space. When Sea Sport and manufacturers like them popped up, all they had to do was emulate design with higher quality and they had a market.

Joke in Alaska... Boater talking to friend on VHF "I'm anchored up here with two other boats". Friend answers back "a Bayliner and what else?" :-)
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