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Old 09-03-2016, 07:45 AM   #21
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If no one is there to take your money who is there to stop you
Your conscience?

It has been rumored that some boaters (notably sailboaters) will wait for a marina to close, pull in, fill their water tanks, use the heads, dump their trash, even dock for the night (with electricity) and then pull out the next morning before the marina staff gets there.
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Old 09-03-2016, 08:20 AM   #22
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Your conscience?

It has been rumored that some boaters (notably sailboaters) will wait for a marina to close, pull in, fill their water tanks, use the heads, dump their trash, even dock for the night (with electricity) and then pull out the next morning before the marina staff gets there.
Last year, a boat (power boat) did that at Vero Beach Municipal Marina. Tied up late and left early. Little did they know they were being filmed by the security camera.
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Old 09-03-2016, 10:47 AM   #23
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Your conscience?

It has been rumored that some boaters (notably sailboaters) will wait for a marina to close, pull in, fill their water tanks, use the heads, dump their trash, even dock for the night (with electricity) and then pull out the next morning before the marina staff gets there.
That's really low, and can't imagine any decent boater doing that, but guess we all have some indecent boaters mixing in. Nothing against sail boaters, but they don't have a good reputation. We have a few in our area that have been anchored in local waters for months.... They say that they haul their waste to shore in the dingy to dispose of it properly, but wonder. I'm in that water 3 or 4 times a week..... grrrrrr

Also, I can't imagine a marina having an issue with you going in after hours and paying up later or even by phone if you leave before they open. It they were good, they could take your cc ahead of time and leave you a key somewhere.

I've had good luck doing this with Enterprise car rental. They are closed on Sun, but a lot of locations will drop a car, leave a key and you simply drop it and the end.
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:08 AM   #24
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It has been rumored that some boaters (notably sailboaters) will wait for a marina to close, pull in, fill their water tanks, use the heads, dump their trash, even dock for the night (with electricity) and then pull out the next morning before the marina staff gets there.
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Nothing against sail boaters, but they don't have a good reputation.
I have to step in and call bullshit. Just as I have spoken against the unfair bias that some sailors have against power boaters, these generalizations of sailors are tiresome.

Maybe it is simply a class thing? Powerboats, foot for foot, cost more to buy and operate than a sailboat. This makes the cost of entry into the boater "club" lower for sailors so, you know, "those people" start to come out and play in our pond...
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:23 AM   #25
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I have to step in and call bullshit. Just as I have spoken against the unfair bias that some sailors have against power boaters, these generalizations of sailors are tiresome.

Maybe it is simply a class thing? Powerboats, foot for foot, cost more to buy and operate than a sailboat. This makes the cost of entry into the boater "club" lower for sailors so, you know, "those people" start to come out and play in our pond...
Well, perhaps. (and I spend more time on a sail boat than power boats). Sail boaters don't have a good reputation, just like lawyers and used car salesmen, and that's not to take away from the good ones. There's just enough bad ones to skew the reputation. (Yes, there's good and bad everything).

Of the ones in the hook in our area that are dumping sewage into the inter coastal, 100% of them are sailboats. There are no power boats there for more than a day or so. Not all of the sailors are bad, but none of the boaters are bad, because they just aint there. I don't have an issue with them at all, and often swing by, talk and get to know them and ask them if I can get them anything. One I got to know pretty well was a great guy, friendly and obeyed the laws and respected other boaters.... and a few should be thrown off the water.

No bullshit, just facts.
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Old 09-03-2016, 11:26 AM   #26
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I'd find locked gates a problem. ..?

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Unfortunately I won't be there to let you in. I always carry my master key. Before anyone asks/accuses etc. My conscience is completely clear staying for free at a marina guest dock if nobody is there to collect. If the marina is not staffed on the weekend it's obviously not a for profit entity.

Totally agree with David, the gross generalizations regarding sailors is bovine excrement. The cost to entry is FAR lower in the sail world and I look at that as a positive. The majority of you old farts are ex sailors too. Everybody starts somewhere.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:00 PM   #27
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Unfortunately I won't be there to let you in. I always carry my master key. Before anyone asks/accuses etc. My conscience is completely clear staying for free at a marina guest dock if nobody is there to collect. If the marina is not staffed on the weekend it's obviously not a for profit entity.
It has rarely happened, but there have been a couple of times when I am coming in late and leaving early and can't find anyone to take my money. Once I had cash and left it under the office door with a note. The other time I didn't have cash and just left a note with my name and phone number so they could call to arrange payment. They never did.

Being able to use a lock pick set would be a handy skill to have. Maybe something I can learn over the next 30 years.
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Old 09-03-2016, 12:55 PM   #28
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Precisely David. Though it never happened to me I'd gladly leave a note with contact information. Using lock picks is an easily attainable skill set that is very handy to have.
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:01 PM   #29
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David,

As you know my son works at the local harbour. I'll go down and visit with him as he's closing up. The harbour office advertises that it closes at 21:00, but he is there until 21:30 doing paperwork and locking up.

Almost funny how often there is a sailboat or small runabout "sneaking" in after nine.

His take on it is: 1.) Maybe they just came in late and they'll check in with the office in the morning. 2.) If he was to go down and call on them and they were being unethical, it would just lead to a confrontation that would disturb others nearby. Which would make everyone unhappy.

One time, it was a 40 something foot newish Bavaria. It was gone in the morning. Figured it was a charter.
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:05 PM   #30
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A lot of good that lock pick set will do you with today's electronic locks.

Probably just as well since breaking and entering is still a prosecutable crime for most of us.
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Old 09-03-2016, 03:14 PM   #31
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It seems that about half the time I'm at the Angel Island Ayala Cove moorings, some boats (usually nice 40 ft +/- sailboats) come in after dark and tie to an outer mooring. They're usually gone at first light. Sometimes they come in as a group of 2 or 3. All to save the $30 mooring fee!
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Old 09-03-2016, 05:46 PM   #32
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It seems that about half the time I'm at the Angel Island Ayala Cove moorings, some boats (usually nice 40 ft +/- sailboats) come in after dark and tie to an outer mooring. They're usually gone at first light. Sometimes they come in as a group of 2 or 3. All to save the $30 mooring fee!
That's also my observation. ... Sailboaters seem to hate to pay for fuel for their engines, falsely believing their sails will annul the need for engine fuel. ... Some are too cheap to pay for moorage/docking also.
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Old 09-03-2016, 07:22 PM   #33
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It is amazing any marina closes for all or part of a weekend, when transient business can be strong. I`m unaware of any Municipal/State operated marinas here. Private enterprise means they stay open and available.
As to boats avoiding paying their way, that`s just wrong. Hawkesbury/Pittwater boaters will know the Basin mooring field, and the adjacent national park camping ground facility, with toilets, bbqs, covered cooking facility, garbage dumpsters, and of course the endearing cold showers,(and the resident wallabies and goannas). Some people going ashore try to avoid paying the $3 pp fee the rangers collect, we make a point of finding the ranger if he/she doesn`t find us,to pay our dues.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:14 AM   #34
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Precisely David. Though it never happened to me I'd gladly leave a note with contact information. Using lock picks is an easily attainable skill set that is very handy to have.
Would't get you far here in Oz, as almost all have now been converted to electronic tag type locks. They can even selectively lock out anyone they want who is not paid up, etc, without affecting the other berth users.

However, coming back to the issue the caused a bit of heat above of sailors versus power boaters, I have to say when I was a yachtie, as we call sail boaters, (bugger off spell checker FCS I know what I'm typing), our prevailing view was that 'fizz boat' (Ie power boat) owners, were way less considerate, rule abiding, and friendly than yachties. So it all depends one whose side you're on.

However, on the specific issue of waste dumping, those who came up with the strict waste dumping laws, (thinking mainly blackwater here), completely failed to consider just how far, and for a yacht or sailboat, how long therefore, it often is for someone in same to actually get to a working pump-out facility. Especially when often by virtue of their size and design, their holding tanks are often far smaller than power boats can accommodate, and for same reason, onboard treatment is also not practical. As has been said more than once, the amount of waste marine animals contribute, (e.g. whales), makes what the odd sailboat might drop, literally a drop in the bucket, in terms of effect on water quality. If it's going to take you a full day's sailing to reach the nearest pump-out facility, and your tank is full...who you gonna call..? Ghostbusters will be no help at all...just sayin'
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Old 09-04-2016, 05:17 AM   #35
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The envelope for after hours payment seems pretty common in BC. Of course there are scofflaws as Spy notes, some of whom show up late and leave early because they are welfare cases living off the dole as a lifestyle.

A better question though is are there any marinas in the SF Bay Area that are really trying to improve things? CA is broke with marinas way down the list for monies in comparison to the hordes with their hands out.

BC in comparison amazes me with the interest and willingness to make life by the sea for transient boaters and residents more interesting, cleaner and safer. Comox, Powell River, Prince Rupert and Chemainus come me to mind. Alaska the same, many Marina improvements.

Fortunately we could choose where we wanted to boat when we both quit work. NZ would be in second place to the NW Americas. But, for those lucky Nordhavn owners who actually use their vessels it really doesn't matter, go anywhere
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:15 AM   #36
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Staying in a marina or using their services without paying is "theft of service" no matter how you slice it. It doesn't matter if it's a government run marina or private.
Some of our parents raised us better than that, some did not. Which are you?
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Old 09-04-2016, 10:39 AM   #37
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Greetings,
I'm in the "Slip the $$ under the door" crowd and a BIG believer in Karma...
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Old 09-04-2016, 12:03 PM   #38
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Not that I am sticking up for the blow boats, but have you seen the cost to replace sails and rigging??? I like my stink pot!!!!
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:04 PM   #39
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I think the sailboaters as frugal is a bit of a Pygmalion effect. There may be a certain unconscious expectation to fulfill a stereotype.

A bit of a harmless competition of being thrifty by some participants.

This is from a red hat owning guy who lived on Cap'n Crunch as a railbird for a while.

Then there are the flotillas of homeless who happen to occupy things formerly known as boats. They just ruin the liveaboard lifestyle for lots of us.
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Old 09-04-2016, 01:24 PM   #40
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Not that I am sticking up for the blow boats, but have you seen the cost to replace sails and rigging??? I like my stink pot!!!!
Good point but the cost of the sails is what one gets when they have a sail boat. And, yes, they're expensive.

No reason to steal services or anything, especially in a private marina.

However, re: marinas, there should be "reasonableness" to access land from public waterways... just like it should be on the road or at airports. Now, my experience with marinas has been that it's not too bad, yet, but something that should be under control.
I've seen the aviation community get screwed with ridiculous fees that have never existed before and some are outlandish, like $600 to park your plane at Boston, or buy fuel at $8.50 a gallon, when other airports around there are as lot as $3.00! And this is rampant, all over the country these fees for parking, stopping, handling, overnight, etc have gotten way out of hand.

We don't want to see this in the marinas. Could you imagine if you had to pay $600 to park your boat in the marina for a few hours for lunch? Or get hit with $8 gas with few other options around. and worse yet, you don't get any kind of service.

The problem in boating and aviation is that there is often not enough choice to get where we want to go... there may only be one or two marinas in the area. I hate government intervention, but we don't need price gouging.

Now, off my soap box....

I don't believe we have the issue much... yet. And I have a hard time condoning stealing a slip or dock space, regardless. And fortunately, there's still a ton of free docking out there. There are several fairly nice ones within an hour of my dock, in St. Pete.
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